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Abrupt Climate Change, AMOC, Antarctic Ice Melt, Anthropocene Mass Extinction, Arctic Ice Melt, Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation, Blue Acceleration, Canfield Ocean, Capitalism, Carbon Dioxide, Climate Change, CO2, Cretaceous–Paleogene Extinction Event, Dr. Peter Ward, Fossil Fuel Dependency, Gerald Durrell, Great Acceleration, Gulf Stream, Hothouse Earth, Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S), IPCC, Jet Stream, K-T Extinction, Loss of Biodiversity, Megadrought, Methane, Micro-Plastic Pollution, Nate Hagens, Nicholas P. Money, Ocean Acidification, PETM Extinction Event, Sea Level Rise, Social Media Algorithms, Widespread Ocean Anoxia

Nate Hagens’ recent interview of Professor Peter Ward, entitled “Oceans – What’s the Worst that Can Happen?”, serves as a good overview of mankind’s destruction of the marine biosphere and our road to extinction. The title is a rather rhetorical question because very bad things have happened, are already happening, and even worse things are unavoidable and on the horizon despite hopes that humans will run out of ways to extract the dirtiest and most inaccessible fossil fuel deposits. We have seen how inextricably linked economic growth is to rising fossil fuel consumption, no matter the mounting disasters happening before our eyes and the steady stream of dire warnings issued from the scientific community. The most current of such warnings came from the UN last month, and it states that escalating synergies between disasters, economic vulnerabilities and ecosystem failures are increasing the risk of a “global collapse” scenario. Such a catastrophic scenario appears all but inevitable. Constricting fossil fuel consumption is like squeezing a balloon. If one country stops consumption, another takes up the slack. For example, efforts to cripple Russia’s fossil fuel exports for their unwarranted invasion of Ukraine don’t appear to be very effective since China and India have simply stepped in and increased their purchases. Rising oil prices have also more than offset a decline in Russia’s export volumes. Perhaps an unintended consequence of those higher energy prices will be the ripple effect through the economy, making food unaffordable for large swaths of the globe and destabilizing governments.
Getting back to the Peter Ward interview, the professor states matter of factly, “Every time we get into a car, it’s putting more of those CO2 particles into the atmosphere. And if this isn’t collective suicide by Homo sapiens, I don’t know what is.” Unfortunately for us, humans have created an unsustainable civilization supporting billions of people while at the same time destroying the very foundation upon which that system is dependent. Humans are by far outperforming the carbon-spewing volcanoes of past mass extinctions. Nicholas Money, renowned mycologist and author of many books, recently wrote:
Decades ago, Gerald Durrell, the famous conservationist, recognized that “the human race is in the position of a man sawing off the tree branch he is sitting on.” Thirty years after Durrell’s death, the human population has increased by 2 billion and the damage has intensified. The branch will snap now whether we keep sawing or not.
The timeline for extinctions is not known, but, sooner or later, the disappearing mammals will be joined by the other groups of animals. Almost everything will be leaving the metaphorical ark, creeping down the gangplank into oblivion. Millions of other species, seen and unseen, including plants, seaweeds, and fungi will be leaving, too. The tiniest of organisms will inherit the planet, but great gulps of the microbial world will also disappear in the depths of this planetary holocaust…
Exact dates are not known, but mankind’s final fate can be seen scrawled upon the familiar checklist for mass extinctions which we are quickly ticking off, one by one. As Ward points out, every time there has been a major disruption in Earth’s delicate biogeochemical carbon cycle, there has been a mass extinction. Today that disruption is happening on a timescale much faster than at any time in the past, even faster than the asteroid impact that killed off the dinosaurs. During the K-T extinction, the immediate impact of the asteroid killed only the large animals. It took thousands of years for the consequent climate change to kill off smaller organisms. Current trends are exponentially faster, not only with anthropogenic climate disruption incinerating the biosphere within a lifetime but also by a multi-pronged attack from other human activities such as chemical and plastic pollution, the global spread of invasive species, and humanity’s massive overdraw on the planet’s resources.

If one were to equate Earth’s geologic history to a calendar year, modern humans have been around for a mere 37 minutes while managing to consume 1/3rd of Earth’s natural resources in just the last 0.2 seconds. The biomass of wild mammals has fallen by 83% since prehistory and it is projected that by 2050 humans will have eliminated 38–46% of all biodiversity from the planet. 70% of the planet’s land area has been altered by humans, with 40% considered degraded. By 2050, an area of land the size of South America will be further degraded. Nearly all of the marine biosphere has been degraded. Now Modern man has set his sights on wringing the last dollar of profit from the already dying oceans in what is being heralded as the “Blue Acceleration”, a not-so-clever play of words on the Great Acceleration referring to the period starting around 1950 when measurements of humanity’s impact on the planet’s resources went hyperbolic:
As pressures on Earth’s land grow and terrestrial resources look increasingly exhausted, governments and corporations are seeing the next big wins on, in and under the high seas. Whether it is mineral exploration, shipping, energy, tourism, desalination, cable laying, bioprospecting or more, ocean-based industries are picking up speed fast.
This “blue acceleration” has many people worried…With the power to profit from remote ocean resources growing rapidly, and the laws that govern their exploitation less than clear, we risk a free-for-all in the deep. “Our society has been based on the degradation of nature, destruction of nature,” says marine ecologist Enric Sala…
The new plunge into the ocean has come about in part because technologies – from ocean drilling and offshore wind turbines to desalination plants and factory trawlers – have made it possible. “A lot of offshore industries were unthinkable even just a few decades ago,” says Jouffray.
And so it goes, Homo sapiens onward march of eating the seed corn and leaving a husk of a planet for future generations …if there are to be any.
Back to Peter Ward and that checklist for mass extinction…The second step after a large release of heat trapping gasses is that Earth’s poles will start warming up much faster than the rest of the globe, melting the polar icecaps and reducing the heat differential between the equator and higher latitudes. A recent study found that the Arctic is heating up as much as seven times faster than the global average. The Antarctic is warming four times faster than the global average. This diminishing heat differential between the higher latitudes and the equator leads to the third step which is that ocean currents and atmospheric jet streams slow down and become stagnant and swampish. As professor Ward points out, swamps have a lot of nasty, toxic aspects to them such as hydrogen sulfide. This has happened to the oceans many times in Earth’s history with deadly consequences, the most recent being the PETM extinction which was associated with the largest deep-sea mass extinction event in the last 93 million years. Less than 5% of sea creatures survived. The oceans became a poisonous and miasmic brew of acidification, hypoxia and sulfide gases. Deep ocean upwellings injected hydrogen sulfide into the atmosphere, laying waste to plants and animals. This killer gas rose to the upper atmosphere and also attacked the ozone layer, allowing deadly ultraviolet radiation from the sun to amplify the destruction of plant and animal life. Fossil spores contained in strata from the PETM extinction show deformities consistent with damage from UV radiation. Major disruptions in the hydrologic cycle occurred with evidence of increased continental runoff. Land suffered extreme precipitation events. Dinoflagellates, tiny organisms that ooze toxins and create deadly algal blooms called ‘red tides’, flourished in the nearly 100°F surface water of the equator. Less than a third of the large animal species made it. Nearly all trees died. No ice existed on the planet during that time. Sea levels were around 300 feet higher than now.
Today we are pumping heat trapping gases into the atmosphere nine to tens times higher than during the PETM extinction. We are just four generations away from matching the chemical composition of the atmosphere that caused that die-off event. However, we are already seeing major changes in the Earth’s climate system that align with the third step toward a mass extinction. Proxy data (like coral data, ocean sediments, and land-based data) along with modern-day instrumentation show an intense weakening of the AMOC, Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation, in the past 200 years. And the Gulf Steam, a component of the AMOC, is also showing signs of collapse. We are in the process of turning off the global ocean conveyor belt that keeps the ocean oxygenated and helps regulate the Earth’s climate. Ocean acidity has increased about 30% from preindustrial times to the early 21st century, a pace faster than any known in Earth’s geologic past. The volume of anoxic ocean waters has quadrupled since the 1960s, and evidence suggests that temperature increases explain about 50% of oxygen loss in the upper 1000 meters of the ocean. Ocean stratification due to climate change has increased 18% in the top 150 meters of the oceans since 1960. Stratified ocean layers have a number of negative effects such as preventing the mixing and transport of heat, carbon dioxide, oxygen, and nutrients to the lower depths of the oceans. It was only recently, November 2021, that a group of scientists issued a plea to governments for establishing a global monitoring system to track the loss of oxygen in the oceans causing dead zones:
“There is a pressing need to document and predict hypoxic episodes and hotspots of low oxygen in order to take protective actions for aquaculture, put in place precautionary measures for affected fisheries, and monitor the wellbeing of important fish stocks,” Limburg said.
“Without this understanding, we are in the dark about impacts that have large economic-ecological implications.”…
“These problems are getting worse because we are not solving the problems of nutrient run-off and our waters are continuing to warm.
Stalled Rossby waves in the Jet Stream linked to extreme weather events have increased significantly in the last twenty years. U.S. crop losses due to drought and flooding have trippled since 1995. Onward we march into oblivion.
Despite the horrors described thus far, what really scares Professor Ward is sea level rise. Ward believes that the volcano of mankind will sputter out before we reach the levels required for a full-fledged Canfield Ocean, and negative feedback loops in the climate system will pull Earth back from the brink. The “Canfield Ocean”, a sulfidic and partially oxic ocean, existed for more than 40% of Earth history, between the Archean and Ediacaran periods. It would take millennia to reach that state again, but humans are supercharging the process to get there by releasing into the ocean vast quantities of nutrients from agricultural fertilizer, soil erosion, industrial waste and sewage, in addition to the ever-growing release of CO2 and methane emissions. Humans have become a geologic force breaching most if not all of the planetary boundaries that make Earth hospitable for life. The mechanisms required for Earth to return to a dead, toxic planet may have already been irreversibly set into motion.
Getting back to Ward’s fear, the most recent report on sea level rise states that it is accelerating with an increase of one foot expected along U.S. coasts by 2050. And that is only if emissions are curbed now. Otherwise, expect up to 5 feet. The researchers say that one foot of SLR over the next three decades is equal to the total that occurred over the past century. Just one foot of vertical rise in sea level will swallow up 100 feet of shoreline if the slope is just 1% or more, a typical slope for most coastlines. To make matters worse, most coastal cities are sinking at a rate faster than the seas are rising. Thus within the next few decades, we could see several hundred feet of shoreline swallowed up along coasts of America and around the world, creating the largest human migration in history. Ward believes we’ll have six feet of sea level rise by 2080 which will destroy a big percentage of the world’s rice production, primarily through salinization. Rice is the number one food source for a majority of the world population today. Sea level rise alone could devastate global trade, not to mention the inevitable damage to ports from stronger storms. The latest IPCC report made it clear that parts of the planet are fast becoming uninhabitable:
Life in some locations on the planet is rapidly reaching the point where it will be too hot for the species that live there to survive, international climate experts said in a report Monday.
“With climate change, some parts of the planet will become uninhabitable,” said German scientist Hans-Otto Pörtner, co-chair of Working Group II for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which produced the report released in Berlin…
…Increased heat waves, droughts and floods are already exceeding plants’ and animals’ tolerance thresholds, driving mass mortalities in species such as trees and corals, according to the report…
…Sherilee Harper, a lead author on the North American chapter and an associate professor at the University of Alberta’s public health school, said she was personally struck by the effect climate change already is having on the “physical and mental health of many Americans.”
Peter Ward then brings up something I don’t remember hearing about global warming. The higher temperatures are disrupting the sperm fertility of organisms. Ward says it’s an existential threat to the amount of food we can produce. Recent studies show this to be true and the damage continues across generations:
…according to new research. New findings reveal that heatwaves damage sperm in insects – with negative impacts for fertility across generations. The research team say that male infertility during heatwaves could help to explain why climate change is having such an impact on species populations, including climate-related extinctions in recent years.

Nate and Peter then get into the societal ignorance preventing humans from addressing any serious problem, let alone the existential threat of anthropogenic climate disruption. Peter says, “How could we, as a species, take something as simple as masks and turn it into a political ploy where the level of ignorance will kill you, will kill you?!?” Nate then explains how social media algorithms are set up to highlight the most polarizing content in order to generate more user activity since their business model is based on user engagement. In order to keep users online, the social media platforms are also designed to be very addictive such as with the infinite scroll feature and the “like” button.
In 2017, Facebook’s former president, Sean Parker, said publicly that the company sought to consume users’ time as much as possible, and that the act was “exploiting a vulnerability in human psychology”…”That means that we needed to sort of give you a little dopamine hit every once in a while because someone liked or commented on a photo or a post or whatever… It’s a social validation feedback loop… You’re exploiting a vulnerability in human psychology…” – link
There is no fixing this dysfunctional social media ecosystem because it is operating exactly as intended. Our profit-driven economic system is rooted in inequality, exploitation, dispossession, and environmental destruction. And encouraging the public to turn off the horror show of climate chaos and biodiversity annihilation are essential for this system to continue. Exploiting tribal biases is a good way to keep the plebs fighting amongst themselves as the last dollar is extracted from a dying planet. Nate asks, “If we can’t have a discussion on what’s real or not with COVID, how are we going to have one about the ocean’s ecosystems and Earth systems and our collective future?” Indeed.

Don’t worry. The collapse of industrial civilization might happen much sooner than any of us could ever expect when the Russia-Ukraine war escalates to World War 3 and finally a full-scale global nuclear war. Leading potentially to NTE by 2030. Maybe we should expect seeing mushroom clouds lighting up the sky in the not-too-distant future?
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The next storm surge will consist of acid.
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Burn! Baby! Burn!
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/30092022/brazil-pantanal-wetland-wildfire-propoganda-bolsonaro/
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Don’t need to worry about a nuclear war exterminaing mankind. Whether a nuclear war happens makes little to no difference for determining the fate of mankind. One simple word: OVERPOPULATION. When the global supply chains permanently break down in the near future, collapse of industrial civilization will happen. Followed shortly by NTHE. It is really that simple. Our population of 8,000 000,000 people is the biggest bubble in the history of mankind. When shortages of fossil fuel energy and other raw materials does really happen in the near future, collapse of industrial civilization will happen…and then the human population bubble will burst. And then, all of the humans on Earth perish in a mass Malthusian die-off. Resulting in human extinction. It is really that simple, really. Not rocket science really.
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“Not rocket science really.”
I was perusing the link below & thinking someone needs to tell
economists & investors that economics is not a science,it’s gambling. Before this delusion collapses the rich might be advised to hide anything that makes them appear rich. What I’m waiting for is an event that rhymes with The French Revolution.
It’s better appearing to be broke than dead from the anger of the pissed-off poor? Pitchforks & guillotines might make a comeback.
https://climateandeconomy.com/2022/10/01/1st-october-2022-todays-round-up-of-economic-news/
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The vast majority of people are addicted to hopium and believe in the myth of technological progress…even though we enlightened doomers know that technological progress is a myth. And technological progress is helping humanity “progress” straight towards the black hole of human extinction in the not-too-distant future.
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More of that damn syiece.
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Most Americans and Westerners falsely believe they are the most enlightened and free citizens on Earth. What they don’t realize is that so-called mainstream media (i.e Fox News, CNN and Hollywood) is flat-out propaganda. Not only are the Chinese or other so-called “socialist” countries (hint: it is state capitalism and not socialism) brainwash their citizens, but propaganda works in all countries. The Americans are so brainwashed that they think they are the most enlightened and free people in the world. Which is obviously not the case. They are just as enslaved and unenlightened as the so-called “socialists” aka state capitalist countries. America is a “free market” capitalist country rather than a “state capitalist” country like China. Either way, it is capitalism. Just one called the “free market” and the other called “the planned market”…both are a form of capitalism.
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Think of how stupid the average person is,… and realize half of them are stupider than that. – George Carlin
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Most Americans believe that aliens from other planets have already made contact with the human race (which is obviously false). Yet these clueless idiots don’t believe that overpopulation, peak oil, anthropogenic climate change and the 6th mass extinction is real! Most Americans think that humans will one day colonize other planets. Even though it is obvious to a tiny minority of people aka us, “doomers”, that humans are gonna go extinct thanks to our own greed and stupidity…and that the Fermi Paradox is, indeed, real. In other words, any species that is clever enough to build a civilization on any planet will eventually overpopulate/destroy the habitat of that planet, and therefore destroy itself in the process. And then the civilization-building, clever species goes extinct. This probably has happened/is happening/ will happen on any planet in the universe capable of supporting complex, multi-cellular life forms. Don’t worry about human extinction because on some other planet, somewhere else in this universe, another, civilization-building, clever ape species is also wondering “whether there is another civilization somewhere else in the universe?” While that species is blissfully causing its own self-inflicted extinction–like what we humans are doing here on Earth.
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And LOL at those stupid people thinking that they are smart because they have a PhD. Or have a license to practice “law” or “medicine”. Becoming “successful” in our socio-economic system simply means you are good at kissing ass. Aka good at mindlessly obeying authority figures. The whole “education” system is simply about brainwashing people to become obedienent slaves to the corporations and government i.e. the authority figures. A good student in school simply means someone who is skilled at obeying authority figures. A “bad” student is someone who doesn’t buy into the bullshit that the corporate-state education system is feeding them.
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“good at kissing ass.”
Many don’t need practice for “head up ass”.
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I never said that everyone with an advanced university degree kisses ass. I just said the overwhelming majority of them do. Hence, the dominant belief systems–like the myth of human technological progress and human exceptionalism–are rarely ever qusstioned or challenged. People with PhDs rarely question the dominant paradigm…they are hired to enforce the dominant paradigm.
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I suspect that the collapse of industrial civilization (CoIC ) isn’t far away at this point. Why? Because Youtube videos, articles and other content about CoIC used to be extremely easy to find– 5 to 10 years ago–on the Internet. Nowadays, these videos and articles are being intentionally hidden, censored or removed from the Internet…by guess who? The USA government/global corporatocracy, who are now censoring this content, because they are afraid that too many people might figure out that industrial civilization will collapse in the not-too-distant future. If CoIC isn’t real and not-too-far-away, then why would the elites decide to censor this information during the past 2 1/2 years (since COVID-19)? Probably because SHTF/NTE isn’t far away.
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How did denial work out for Florida?
I watch one interview & the flooding victim said they had raised everything above the previous flood level from the last storm & everything they raised went underwater in Ian. Rebuilding bigger & better on foundations of sand in flood zones is not one’s best option. Roads on sand bases washed out.
The Clever Apes motto: “It can’t happen here.” Sorry, there is shit on the fan around the world.
https://climateandeconomy.com/2022/10/03/3rd-october-2022-todays-round-up-of-climate-news/
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In case if anyone is still interested, the dieoff.com website is now permanently offline (for some unknown reason). But, thankfully, the content on that website can still be found on the following link:
http://web.archive.org/web/20220524111605/https://dieoff.com/
The WayBackMachine kept snapshots of all of the articles on dieoff.com. Here is a link to that site.
http://web.archive.org/
WBM is a website that keeps snapshots of web sites btw. I think dieoff.com is a very good site because the insights it offers about the human species is priceless.
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I went to dieoff & the first thing I read:
“The destruction of the natural world is not the result of global capitalism, industrialisation, “Western civilisation” or any flaw in human institutions. It is a consequence of the evolutionary success of an exceptionally rapacious primate. Throughout all of history and prehistory, human advance has coincided with ecological devastation. — John Gray, STRAW DOGS
It’s evolution’s fault,not the intentional decisions of the Clever Ape.
Maybe he couldn’t spell overpopulation. 😉
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And if you read the other articles on that site, he clearly goes into explaining that OVERPOPULATION might be why we are in our current predicament.
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I read this book (called Peak Oil and the Die Off by Matt Savinar), which makes a convincing argument that the Earth can only sustainably support 1/100th to 1/50th of the current human population. At best. So, about 50,000,000 to 100,000,000 people maximum can be sustainably supported on Earth. If this is the case, then that means humanity has already been in a state of population overshoot since as far back as the Bronze Age and the construction of the pyramids of ancient Egypt. Here is a link that book btw https://www.unicamp.br/fea/ortega/eco/traducao-DieOff.pdf
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Can’t believe I missed this title.
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Just go the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement website for more information. I can’t post the link to that site on WordPress probably because TPTB don’t want people to realize or acknowledge the reality of human overpopulation. WordPress does not allow that link being shared on its comments section probably because TPTB are intentionally denying the reality of human overpopulation.
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From the VHEMT site.
“Phasing out the human species by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth’s biosphere to return to good health. Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense.”
It may not be the physical numbers that are the problem,it may the mental density of those numbers. 😉
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The biosphere is already FUBARed at this point. The vast majority of species on this planet are already facing extinction in the next few years. Wikipedia and other mainstream media sources are still flat-out denying the 6th mass extinction is happening and/or is being caused by human industrial activities/overpopulation (to maintain the bottom line of corporations, of course).
Don’t worry about VHMET. Humans will not voluntarily go extinct by refraining from breeding more humans. Thanks to the constant pro-natalist/anti-abortion propaganda of the corporate-state, more and more clueless morons will be doing a helluva lot more reproducing of human beings into the foreseeable future. Until the collapse of industrial civilization does really happen–in the not-too-distant future– and every human on Earth perishes in a mass, Malthusian die-off. The solution to overpopulation is not VHMET. The solution to overpopulation is continueing BAU (Business As Usual) until industrial civilization catastrophically and abruptly collapses. Leading to involuntary NTHE. Yep, humans are literally breeding themselves to extinction.
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Faced with the choice between changing one’s mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
John Kenneth Galbraith
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Just FYI, there are over 10,000,000 homeless people in the USA. And about 30,000,000 people in the USA without adequate food supplies. Do you find that surprising? Well, it shouldn’t be surprising because this level of stunning social inequality is a natural by-product of capitalism.
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Just FYI, I worked in agriculture for many years. I know that it takes an absolutely enormous amount of land and resources to grow enough food for just one human…on a largely vegan/vegetarian diet. Let alone 8,000,000,000 people, who are eating increasing amounts of meat per capita. Not just land and resources to grow the food, but to transport and distribute the food across the globe to consumers…that distribution process is all dependent on fossil fuels. Yep, we all know where the human population bubble is headed towards in the near future.
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The mainstream media is flat out lying. As usual. They are completely lying about peak oil. They claim that peak oil is just a matter of “peak demand”. As in the demand for oil will peak, as we replace oil with more “environmentally-friendly” energy sources like “renewable” energy (wind/solar), biomass, nuclear fusion, hydrogen, etc. There is ZERO acknowledgement that oil is an irreplaceable, nonrenewable and finite resource. The mainstream media (MSM) still assumes that there is an infinite amount of resources on this planet. So they pretend that peak oil isn’t actually due to the lack of supply/depletion of nonrenewable resources. They pretend that shortage of raw materials/natural resources– due to depletion– isn’t possible. Because these idiot economists/MSM pundits still operate under the false assumption of their being unlimited resources on this planet. They also pretend that it is possible to replace oil/fossil fuels. Which another big fat lie. So our whole economic system is based on the big fat lies that there is an unlimited amount of natural resources on this planet, and that we could always “replace” one resource with another resource–in case if one resource is running low– because of human “ingenuity”. Let’s see how much longer they can maintain this lie…as the global supply chains permanently break down and supermarkets /stores permanently “run out” of supplies and food due to shortages of fossil fuels and other raw materials. In the near future. And collapse of industrial civilization happens. And all the humans on this planet perish in a mass Malthusian die-off.
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The American Association of Doomers is changing their name to Global Realists.
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To all the Republicans that will be bitching about gas prices, a few words; How’s that unregulated free market capitalism working out? Don’t like big government interference,I’m with you. Gas should be $300.00/gal. or as high as the market economy can handle. Why do they hate profit? Bet big corporation Democrats won’t do anything. How many of them are profiting from oil?
https://www.fox4news.com/news/opec-large-cutback-oil-output-boost-sagging-prices
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Maybe OPEC is cutting oil “production” (more like extraction) simply because there isn’t much oil reserves left? I estimate that over 80% of all oil reserves have already been depleted as of 2022. We are certainly entering a period of chronic fossil fuel energy decline. Remember the link to the Energy and Human Evolution article? Here is a link to it btw.
http://web.archive.org/web/20220524111716/https://dieoff.com/page137.htm
Here is a quote on a reliable estimate of how much oil reserves are left:
“”Most of this energy comes from fossil fuels, which supply nearly 75% of the world’s energy (see note 5). But fossil fuels are being depleted a hundred thousand times faster than they are being formed (Davis, 1990, P. 56). At current rates of consumption, known reserves of Petroleum will be gone in about thirty-five years; natural gas in fifty-two years; and coal in some two hundred years PRIMED, 1990, p. 145). 6
It should not be supposed that additional reserves, yet to be discovered, will significantly alter these figures. Recent advances in the geological sciences have taken much of the guesswork out of locating fossil hydrocarbons and the surface of the earth has been mapped in great detail with the aid of orbiting satellites. Moreover, these figures are optimistic because the demand for energy will not remain at current rates; it can be expected to grow at an ever-quickening pace. The more concentrated a resource, the less energy it takes to make use of it; and the less concentrated a resource, the more energy it takes.””
The “35 years of oil reserves left” estimate was made in 1995. About 27 years have passed since then. We are now in 2022. Doing the math, maybe we have only until 2030 when oil is no longer possible to physically extract (due to depletion)? Of course, we might extend industrial civilization’s life expectancy, by maybe another 5 to 10 years, via viscious demand destruction of oil (and other natural resources) through economic contraction? So maybe, SHTF can delayed until 2035 to 2040? Who knows? Of course, some people might say “there is alot of coal left, so we don’t need to worry about running out of hydrocarbon resources anytime soon”. That may be true. There is alot of coal left. Unfortunately, coal cannot replace oil because oil is more important to industrial civilization than coal. The global supply chains i.e. the trucks, airplanes, giant cargo ships and etc are all powered by oil. Not coal. Without sufficient quantities of oil, the global supply chains will quickly collapse leading to the CoIC. Coal can be converted into oil (to a certain extent), but I doubt this conversion process can be scaled up sufficiently to mitigate the decline of oil extraction (which is already happening since 2019).
I suspect that anthropogenic GHG emissions will probably decline within the next 2 to 3 years (due to peak oil and global economic collapse). But there is still the climate, feedback loops that have already been triggered (thanks to prior and current GHG emissions), so the collapse of the global economy is unlikely to save us from climate change.
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These have been fun addendums for all of us COIC fans here in the hinterlands of the comments section, but maybe it’s time for some humor from the interjectors.
What’s so funny about peace, love, and understanding? Collapse. That’s what’s so funny about it all. Collapse is going to have to funny to be endured, not just more “I-told-you-idiots” relentless biliousness. As long as we’re alive on this rock together, we can find some humor in the darkness, and some humor in the whiteness of the screen background.
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Like you mentioned a few months ago, the elites most certainly know about peak oil and global warming. After all, these scientific reports are written by people they hired. Also, demand destruction will most certainly extend how long BAU can continue. I don’t think that this demand destruction is part of a “secret conspiracy” by the elites. It is simply the “free market” destroying excess demand– by price increases– to prevent supply and resource shortages. How long they can continue destroying demand for fossil fuels and other resources, without civilization completely collapsing, I don’t know. I just know that industrial capitalism is already starting to cannibalize itself. Unlike the Great Depression of the 1930s, there will be no economic recovery from peak oil and climate change. It will eventually lead to the permanent end of human civilization. This is not like the collapse of the Roman Empire, whereby a new civilization emerged from Rome’s ashes. This is the permanent end of –not only industrial civilization–but human civilization as a whole.
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I feel I’ve been in the hinterlands for most of my life, watching politicians,economists,religion & the “doing the same thing over & over again” Clever Ape. They are not slow learners,they are never learners.
A little dark humor is always appreciated. When famine hits America, it will be funny to watch the overweight,obese & morbidly obese Americans live a long time without food because of their fat reserve. What will all those tattoos look like on saggy skin?
I’m not looking forward to our future.
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The above article features the following quote, which illustrates what will likely happen within next 20 to 30 years or 30 to 40 years. After the collapse of industrial civilization is complete:
http://web.archive.org/web/20220524111716/https://dieoff.com/page137.htm
“””Or it may prove impossible for even a few survivors to subsist on the meager resources left in civilization’s wake. The children of the highly technological society into which more and more of the world’s peoples are being drawn will not know how to support themselves by hunting and gathering or by simple agriculture. In addition, the wealth of wild animals that once sustained hunting societies will be gone, and topsoil that has been spoiled by tractors will yield poorly to the hoe. A species that has come to depend on complex technologies to mediate its relationship with the environment may not long survive their loss.””
The following article also does a good job at illustrating the current human predicament in the 21st century:
The following quote is particularly important:
“””In the collective consciousness of industrial civilization, man was exempt from falling victim to the 6th mass extinction. The future narrative of people in the modern age never included:
…that they would be among the last humans to walk the Earth.
…that their children would not live long enough to grow old.
…that all cultural, artistic, and scientific achievements of the human species would soon be forgotten in time, no longer practiced and appreciated.”””
Kevin Moore, a former commenter on this blog, mentioned in 2013 that NTHE will almost certainly happen between the year 2030 and 2080. So my estimate of NTHE falls under that time frame of about 20 to 30 years from now or around 2040 to 2050.
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Can anyone name other sites that have extreme dedicated doomers?
All Clever Apes are all going to die soon while weeping & gnashing of teeth. Of course this is the consequence of their choices. 😉
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This is the only other site with “extreme doomers”. I hope you enjoy it! It is the Near Term Human Extinction Facebook group:
https://m.facebook.com/groups/196445907621709/?ref=pages_group_cta
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I missed this site. I never signed up for Facebook,Twitter or other social media. I decided,at the start of these groups,that I would not click or give them my data to sell to make them billionaires if I didn’t benefit financially. My clicks are going to cost. If social media is a problem, I’m not part of it.
I chose to make xraymike rich. 😉
I’m waiting for someone with global name recognition to stand on a soapbox & simply say; “You dumb fucks are all going to die because you are to stupid to realize that Clever Apes are animals that need a stable habitat to survive.”
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Right now, humans think that the artificial “habitat” of industrial civilization (i.e. the electric grid, Internet, food in supermarkets, water coming out of the municipal taps, etc) is what is needed for human survival. Of course, it will all be gone when industrial civilization collapses in the not-too-distant future.
Yeah, I noticed that the natural world is rapidly disappearing. Fewer and fewer wild animals everyday. 200,000 plus humans added to the global population of humans everyday. More and more super-tall apartment buildings and skyscrapers being added to already overpopulated and overcrowded modern cities everyday. More and more homeless, starving, unemployed and poverty-stricken people added to this world everyday. It is obvious that the insanity of industrial civilization cannot last for much longer.
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I can’t believe most people are absolutely afraid of COVID-19. COVID will be absolute child’s play compared to the upcoming collapse of industrial civilization, which will be literally wiping out billions of people. How many people has COVID killed worldwide? 10 or 20 million people at best, I assume. Yet during the past 2 1/2 years since the COVID lockdown, the global human population grew by a full 200 million people, from 7.8 billion people in 2020 to a full 8 billion people in 2022. This pandemic has barely done anything to slow down global human population growth. But peak oil and climate change (and a plethora of other factors discussed on this site) will do a much more effective job at actually REDUCING the number of humans on Earth –a planet that is already severely overpopulated by humans– than some measely pandemic that wiped out only a few million people over the past 2 to 3 years.
Of course, this cannot rule out the possibility of some super pandemic– within the next couple of years–that literally wipes out most of the human population…perhaps a super pandemic that wipes out as much as 75% of the global population is a possibility… because of the increasingly destabilized biosphere. But I think famine and war will more likely be the main driving factors for culling global human population by Mother Nature.
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*
https://mahb.stanford.edu/blog/evolution-and-overshoot/
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What alot of people don’t take into account about human population is the sheer amount of resources humanity consumes. Sure, you can make the argument that 8,000,000,000 humans can be crammed into a relatively small amount of space. Technically, if everyone human on this planet needed only 1 square meter of space to live, we can cram the entire world’s human population into a neatly organized square of 90km by 90km …90,000 meters times 90,000 meters = 8,100,000,000 square meters for 8,000,000,000 people. By that logic, we can easily support a human population of 800,000,000,000 (800 billion) people if the only thing humans need for survival is a place to stand and lie down.
Unfortunately, humans are not plants (autotrophs). We are mammals. Warm blooded mammals. If humans were cold-blooded reptiles, our current population wouldn’t be such a burden because reptiles consume only 1/10th of the food of a mammal of the same body mass. But humans are 150lb to 200lb land mammals. We need to consume 2,000 calories of food everyday. Or about 4lbs of food everyday. 1,500 lbs of food per year per capita. 1,500 lbs of food per year for one human multiply that by 8,000,000,000 humans, and that is the mind-booglingly large amount of food that humans consume every year. Global agriculture grew 10,000,000,000 (10 billion) tonnes of plant-based food in 2020 alone. That is the sheer amount of food humanity consumes.
Imagine if there were 8,000,000,000 black bears on this planet. Would that be sustainable? That analogy shows the unsustainability of the global human population because human have about the same body mass and food requirements as black bears. Nevermind, the plethora of other resources (besides food) like fossil fuels, metallic ores, mineral ores, wood, fresh water and etc required to maintain industrial civilization. Industrial civilization’s human population of 8,000,000,000 people is completely unsustainable.
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Just FYI, TV is just corporate advertising propaganda. Yet the clueless, sheeple masses don’t think this is the case. They think TV is “educational”. Yeah, TV is educational my ass.
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Near term human extinction is guranteed at this point. This species deserves it btw. Humans deserve NTE. This exceptionally rapacious ape, called Homo Sapiens, deserves and will get near term human extinction as consequence of its greed and stupidity.
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“You can’t always get what you want but sometimes you get what you” ..deserve.
I keep wondering just how horrible our end will be. I can’t wait until the monkey minds can no longer deny. I have two neighbors,one says he doesn’t believe in AGW,the other believes the climate is changing but we don’t know why. I will be asking them how do they like seeing their end & the end of those they say they love, & that climate change does not care what they believe.
I don’t think that anything I’ve said will change any minds but NTHE will, when it’s in their face.
“sad state of affairs, a
An unhappy condition, unfortunate circumstances. The use of state of affairs to describe events or circumstances originated as the more ambiguous state of things, which was first recorded in 1555. Affairs began to be used about two centuries later. R. L. Green played on it in The Land of Lord High Tiger: “Sad affairs of State! Sad state of affairs! Affairs of a sad state.” It is sometimes put as sorry state of affairs.” – thefreedictionary.com
1555, They didn’t know how sad it could get.
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The idea of being able to sustain industrial civilization without fossil fuels is absurd. We (doomers) know that without fossil fuels, global industrial civilization will catastrophically and abruptly collapse…resulting in NTHE. This will become a reality in the not-too-distant future.
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Random Cool Stuff,
I wonder if anyone reads what we have said here or think some of us are nuts. They might be right about me.;-)
Some brains are totally protected against anything that is unpleasant,in one ear & out the other.
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The people believing in human technological progress are delusional and brainwashed. We are not nuts. We are the handful of people intelligent enough to realize the bleak reality of this world. Can they still deny reality when SHTF literally happens? The only reason most people can deny the reality of NTHE in 2022 is because there is still food in the supermarkets, gas at the gas stations, electrical grid is still working, etc. When civilization does collapse within the not-too-distant future, can they still deny the reality that the doomers have been telling them for so many years? The average person’s denial of reality is absolutely mind booglingly insane. The average person is so brainwashed and in denial that they deny simple statements like “do you know that capitalism is the cause of poverty and starvation in the world?”
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DAMN! Any criticism of capitalism can make one, many enemies.
Big ass smiley face!
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And here is another point that shows that technological progress is just a myth. You remember those fat desktop PCs from the 1990s? In 2022, we now have slimmer desktop PCs with higher screen resolutions. But has the fundamental science behind the manufacture of PCs (or any mass-manufactured products for that matter) changed during the past 30 years? Absolutely not.
These computers are still manufactured using global, fossil-fuel powered supply chains. Manufactured out of finite and non-renewable mineral ores (like rare Earth metals, copper, gold, silver, silicon and magnesium) mined from the Earth. Computers are still manufactured and distributed by industrial processes entirely dependent on nonrenewable and finite fossil fuels. Made out of plastics derived from fossil fuels, etc. So much for technological “progress” LOL. And there is absolutely ZERO chance industrial civilization can be powered on “alternative” energy sources because the immutable laws of physics and chemistry make it impossible for civilization to exist without fossil fuels.
Oh btw, is Windows 11 actually better than Windows 95? Probably not because they just added a whole bunch of unnecessary crap in the newer products to give the masses the illusion of technological progress.
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Ok if you live in the USA or Canada, just look at the insane number of cars, trucks and other fossil-burning machines on the roads. And yet, most people still think that this is “sustainable”. I guess it never occured to them that fossil fuels are a finite and nonrenewable resource. And they still think that global warming is a hoax. The dumbfucks in the governments still think that it is possible to reduce automobile and traffic accidents via some new law or regulation. Maybe, they don’t realize (or deny) that the cause of traffic accidents is the fact that there is too many goddamn automobiles on the roads? Maybe, they don’t realize (or deny) that the reason that there is too goddamn automobiles on the road is because of the global capitalist economy that demands infinite growth in human population and consumption? I mean, it is obvious to us doomers what is the cause of the world’s problems…overpopulation and overconsumption…yet humans are incapable of such simple solutions like controlling human population and consumption levels? I wonder why that is the case? Maybe it is because of the global economic system that is fundamentally unsustainable because it requires unlimited growth of human population and consumption? Yet, this simple reality is beyond the comprehension of most humans of industrial civilization.
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A study of human history (and prehistory) shows catastrophic ecological damage long before the Industrial Revolution. Just look at Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, India, China and wherever human civilization took root. During the time of ancient Greece and Rome, there was already extensive deforestation, biodiversity loss, wild life poaching, habitat destruction and etc in Europe, for example, long before the Industrial Revolution. By the time of the Industrial Revolution in 1700 AD, most of the “old” world’s biodiversity and wild life was already gone. All this ecological destruction was happening when global human population was well under 1 billion people. During the past three hundred years, we managed to increase global human population from 800 million people to 8 billion people (and growing by over 200,000 people, quite literally, everyday during the 21st century, btw). Now, there isn’t a single place on Earth that is safe from the ecological destruction of Homo Sapiens.
The “good” news is that Homo Sapiens is facing NTE (near term extinction). The bad news is that virtually all of the higher life forms (wild mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish, insects, etc) on this planet will soon become extinct, and anyone born during and after 1980 (assuming they don’t die prematurely from an accident) will suffer from a horrific death from famine, war, diease and etc., as industrial civilization catastrophically (and quite “abruptly”) collapses during the next 5 to 10 years. Or 10 to 15 years. I find it very doubtful that industrial civilization will still be around from 2040 and onwards. I wouldn’t be surprised that there are literally no humans alive on this planet by 2050 or 2060.
Just my two cents.
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My two cents is worth $2,000,000,000.
Shoot the messenger!
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It is becoming increasingly obvious that NTHE is unavoidable at this point. And the primary cause for it…perhaps overpopulation and overconsumption? Of course, there is a plethora of other factors causing NTHE (like the infinite growth economic system) but perhaps the overwhelming number of people on the planet might be one of the causes.
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It is obvious to us doomers that the current global human population isn’t sustainable without cheap and abundant fossil fuels. Do you honestly think that mega cities–like Tokyo and New York City–with human populations of over 10,000,000 people, can exist without 24/7, global supply chains powered by fossil fuels? Of course not. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, I wouldn’t be surprised that mega cities–like Tokyo and New York City–have their population of millions of people reduced down to zero people within a year or two after collapse of industrial civilization happens. Imagine what it will be like when the global supply chains and electrical grids permanently fail in the not-too-distant future? No more food ever being delivered to the supermarket shelves, so food permanently “disappears”. No more water coming out of the municipal taps, so no more water to drink. The electricity grid permanently fails, meaning permanent black outs across the entire globe. No more gas at the gas stations. Cars, trucks, buses, cargo ships, airplanes, trains and other forms of transportation permanently stop moving. Nuclear reactors around the world all “go Fukishima!” soon after the electrical grid collapses. Imagine the above scenario happening before 2040? Would that literally mean NTHE? I would want to hear your opinion on this.
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It is worth mentioning that capitalism wasn’t invented from the invention of money, contrary to popular belief. The invention of money predates capitalism by several thousand years. Capitalism was invented from the practice and widespread acceptance of usury. Usury, which is the act lending money, and requiring the burrower to pay back more money than the amount of money that was burrowed. Having to pay interest on money–that is burrowed– was how capitalism emerged. This is not some anti-Semitic canard I am stating. This has nothing to with the Jews. This was simply how capitalism came into being.
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The PS5 (Playstation 5) came out in Xmas (Christmas) of 2020. Assuming they come up with a “new” video game console every 5 to 6 years, what will the PS6 look like, when it is released in 2025/2026? Will there be a PS6? Or would SHTF happen before it is released? What new technological “innovations” (more like gimmicks) will be released on the PS6? We should be asking those serious questions. Of course, most of us enlightened doomers know that technological “progress” is just new gimmicks disguised as technological “innovation”. Just good, old planned obsolescence, correct? Yep, it is just planned obsolescence. That is for sure.
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Funny that no one can say – “We are going to get what we deserve.” Of course they can’t, it’s not their fault. Denial is an awful illness that one doesn’t realize they have contracted.
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Just FYI, man’s dependence on fossil fuels is extraordinary. The majority of food grown in the world is dependent on fossil-powered agriculture. Not just grains (like wheat, corn, and soy beans), but also fruits and vegetables (like carrots, potatoes, strawberries, and raspberries). Not only does modern agriculture rely on fossil fuel powered machines for planting, growing, harvesting and transportation of the food, but the fertilizer used to grow food is derived from fossil fuels (i.e the Haber Bosch Process). Even if the food isn’t planted, grown or harvested with fossil-powered industrial processes, food must be to transported from farms to customers via fossil-powered supply chains i.e. trucks, cargo ships, airplanes, trains and etc. Do you now know why I say that the collapse of the global supply chains i.e. the collapse of industrial civilization will literally lead to supermarket shelves permanently “running out” of food?
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Running out of food will be a great diet for gluttonous,fat,lard ass Americans.
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Except when you factor in the 1 billion plus guns in the USA, the collapse of industrial civilization will be unbelievably violent and brutal. It is likely the majority of people would die from violence at the hands of other humans (rather than starvation or disease), when NTHE happens. Mankind’s murdeous forte will greatly aid NTHE.
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How many times has talk turned into physical reality?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/un-said-nuclear-war-back-091525784.html
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Will Republicans get their Civil War before Putin gets his.
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All pyramid schemes eventually collapse. Whether it involves 8,000 or 8,000,000 or 8,000,000,000 people… all pyramid schemes eventually collapse. The pyramid scheme of global industrial capitalism encompasses literally every human on this planet…8,000,000,000 humans (and growing by 200,000 + people everyday). When the greatest pyramid scheme in human history collapses, the end result is NTHE. The permanent end of human civilization. Resulting in human extinction.
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Many aren’t interested in AGW or food shortages around the world.
Nuclear explosions might not get others attention but no flights would when it’s in their face.Wonder if the glow of nuclear explosions that shut down cellphones & the internet would be of any concern?
The Clever Ape’s set of living arrangements is not severe enough to get their attention,yet. At my age I want to live long enough to see the misery just so I can ask: Why did you choose this consequence?
Being stuck in layover,permanently,is not my idea of fun. Quit complaining & walk home. Months ago I wondered why the EU didn’t stop Russian overflights & expel all Russians.
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Don’t need to worry about human overpopulation, mate. Collapse of industrial civilization will solve the overpopulation problem very abruptly and catastrophically by causing NTHE. Just allow BAU to continue for a few more years, and the global supply chains and electrical grids will permanently fail. This is literally guranteed at this point. Thus leading to NTHE.
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Just FYI, the people living in the “third world” i.e. Niger and Sudan are just as dependent on the global industrial economy and fossil fuels as people living the “first world” i.e. Canada and the USA. When global industrial civilization does collapse (in the not-too-distant future), the people living in the third world are no more likely to survive than people living in the first world. And vice versa.
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Burn up stupid,thinking you’re Clever, Apes.
I will celebrate the suffering because that is what the 8,000,000,000 fools want. What’s wrong? Can’t handle the heat, lack of food & miserable living conditions? Well,bless your hearts to hell. Can’t wait to see all the political,economic & religious geniuses having to face the impending deaths of all those they love,especially their children. How’s all those value systems working out?
We need a joke about the Clever Apes,they are the punchline.
January 27, 2021 info ~2.5C, How did I miss this? I’m not so clever! FMTT!
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It is becoming increasingly difficult to deny the reality of NTHE. Here is a good video that summarizes the lectures of Guy McPherson.
Remember, there is 8,000,0000,000 humans on this planet in 2022, and the global human population is still GROWING by 200,000 plus people everyday. There is now 1,500,000,000 automobiles that are in active service in 2022 (up from 800,000,000 automobiles in 2009 when the Collapse documentary by Michael Ruppert was made). And millions of automobiles moving across the roads 24/7 around the world. Literally, every second of everyday, there is literally millions of cars (and other fossil fuel burning transportation devices) moving on the roads, skies and oceans of the world. When the global supply chains permanently collapse (in the not-too-distant future), can NTHE still be denied?
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Oophs I made a typo…I added an extra zero in the human population statistic…still an absolutely astronomic number of humans on this planet…8,000,000,000 people on Earth in 2022.
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Random Cool Stuff,
I feel we are in the choir,talking to each other, & neither the preacher or congregation are listening. I follow all the climate news I can find & never do I hear MSM mention overpopulation being a problem to the environment,economics or the ability to feed the masses.Economics & “More for me” trumps a livable habitat. Main Slime Media is in it for the money. They know that NTHE & overpopulation are not big money makers. They have monetary limits on how much horror they can report. Wars & mass shootings sell.
“It’s interesting when people die.” – “Dirty Laundry” – Don Henley. But not when everyone dies in a decade.
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There is certain “good” news…the good news is that because of the unprescedented inequality and poverty created by capitalism, many people are not reproducing at all. They are simply way too poor to afford sustaining their own lives…let alone sustaining any offspring off of their meager incomes. The bad news is that capitalism is a pyramid scheme that literally requires non-stop growth in human population to sustain itself. Meaning, thanks to the PR of corporations, overpopulation is encouraged…hence many people are still frantically reproducing. Remember, every year, in the 21st century, the global human population grows by 90,000,000 people. The actual number of people born onto this planet every year is probably around 120,000,000 people because at least 30 million people die every year. Oh btw, what if I told you that starvation (due to the lack of money to afford food) is, by far, the leading cause of death in the world? I am not joking. Most of the people dying in the world die due to starvation caused by poverty. What is more messed up is that the poorest and most impoverished people are reproducing the quickest. Yet, these people are the most vulnerable to dying of starvation (due to poverty). The elites controlling industrial civilization surely know this…yet they let allow this suffering to continue unabated. They allow such poverty and starvation to exist…maybe they can stop it? Or maybe the elites are powerless to stop it? Who knows? Maybe abolishing capitalism is the only way to stop population growth because capitalism is the root cause of population growth? Of course, there is absolutely zero chance capitalism will ever be abolished…because of the absolute power of the psychopathic, global elites prevent any realistic solution from ever being implemented. Hence, the global human population will continue to relentlessly grow…until industrial civilization catastrophically and abruptly collapses, leading eventually to NTHE.
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“good” news
Good one! ‘That’s funny,I don’t care who you are.’
Bet some didn’t get it.
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A video on Youtube once mentioned the following two quotes…
“Are you poor? You can’t afford consuming stuff? Don’t worry! You will be one less person consuming the Earth”
“Are you unable to get pregnant? Don’t worry, the world is overpopulated anyways. Even you are an excess.”
Just keep those two quotes in mind.
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I actually look forward to seeing those clueless, moron, NTHE denier’s facial expressions when SHTF/collapse of industrial civilization does really happen. I would want to see how those deniers of NTHE would react when it literally does happen? They would probably scared shitless when the collapse of industrial civilization does happen. Then again, who wouldn’t? Who wouldn’t be scared shitless when the literal end of civilization does happen and is undeniable?
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Most of the people I personally know have two or more siblings i.e. their parents have three or more biological offspring. And many/most of those young adults are still reproducing. I know many people who’s parents have five or more biological offspring. And many millenials (i..e people born in the 1980s or later) have two or more biological offspring…and they continue to reproduce. And this is the case in many so-called “developed” countries–like Canada and the USA–where birth rates are supposedly “dropping” and “below replacement levels”. What bulllshit. Yes, the mainstream media is lying about the supposed lack of people reproducing. If people are not frantically reproducing right now, then why is global human population still growing by 200,000 plus people everyday, and by 90,000,000 people every year? During the past 11 to 12 years, global human population still GREW by a full 1,000,000,000 people. Yet, the mainstream media continues to deny the reality of human overpopulation. In fact, the corporate media is celebrating when the global human population will finally reach the 9,000,000,000 people milestone by 2035 or 2040. Yeah, humans are certainly in danger of going extinct from lack of reproduction (note my sarcasm). The brutal reality is that overpopulation/uncontrolled population growth is one of the main reasons why humans are facing near-term extinction. The “good” news is that anyone born after 2020 will probably not live long enough to reach the age of reproducing more humans because collapse of industrial civilization and NTHE will probably happen within this decade or by the 2030s. It is likely there wouldn’t be 9,000,000,000 humans on Earth by 2035 or 2040. On the contrary, it is likely there might not be anyone alive on Earth by then.
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Whether Russia wins or loses the war in Ukraine, makes little difference in the grand scheme of things. Why? Because the global human population bubble (of 8,000,000,000 humans) will collapse in the not-too-distant future. Doesn’t matter what humans do at this point. The human overpopulation bubble will collapse within this decade or next decade. There is no way we can sustain the global human population for much longer. There is absolutely zero technological tricks humans can use to sustain the current human population for much longer. The only reason we managed to expand global human population to 8 billion people was because of the availability of cheap and abundant fossil fuels. This fossil fuel supply which will soon be gone…combined with a plethora of other factors, meaning collapse of industrial civilization and, most likely, NTHE.
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Fun fact about human overpopulation. The USA’s population is now at least 330,000,000 people in 2020 (some estimates say it is closer to–or in excess of– 340 million people because of many illegal migrants are not counted in the population census). Assuming BAU, the USA’s population is expected to exceed 400,000,000 people by 2040 (that is assuming industrial civilization doesn’t catastrophically end before 2040). Canada’s population is now over 40,000,000 people, and it is expected to reach 60 million people by 2040 (assuming, of course, civilization doesn’t permanently end before 2040). Ironically, despite (blatant) grotesque human overpopulation in literally every country of the world, politicians are looking forward to when we finally reach the 9,000,000,000 th human milestone in global population by 2040. Will we reach 9,000,000,000 humans by 2040? Or will the global human population have crashed down to a mere 9 people by 2040, and already headed straight towards NTHE by then? I am curious about what you guys have to say about this.
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Significantly lower population by 2040,trending downwards.
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A better question would be this? Would there still be an electrical grid around by then?
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I don’t know. Whatever the timeline, all those hockey-stick graphs are telling us that this civilization is ephemeral.
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How about some dark humor?
After the Pelosi attack, will we hear – Where’s McConnell? Where’s McCarthy? Where’s Graham? Where’s(fill in the blanks)? Will politics destroy America before Global Warming destroys the American Clever Ape?
How many people in power or have wealth think either one makes them immune to global warming?
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Like I said many times before, when the global supply chains permanently collapse (in the not-too-distant future), then NTHE will be undeniable. This is inevitable because global oil extraction has already entered permanent decline (due to depletion) since 2019. Not only that, but all of the other nonrenewable resources–that Homo Sapiens depends on for survival–are soon gonna be completely gone, too. Like metalliac ores and top soil (and a ton of other natural resources). It is not just a matter of unstable climate conditions caused by industrial pollution…humans are now exhausting all of the resources, it depends on for survival, beyond recoverable levels. When the global supply chains permanently collapse (leading to collapse of industrial civilization), can people still deny the reality of human extinction?
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I’ve been very interested in AGW since early 2000s & before that I knew where we might be headed & that I could do nothing to stop it. I’m so looking forward to the global acceptance that NTHE is coming for everyone. It’s going to be a blast to confront all the overpopulators as they watch their offspring suffer & die from their parents stupidity/intentional ignorance. “Hey fools you could have prevented this situation. You didn’t, so now you get to experience the consequences of your action.”
Thoughts & prayers! Forget it, those won’t help. They can always
continue their hope & denial.
Cool,
If you & I were in a room full of people bet we could empty it in a few minutes. Old saying – “Don’t come here looking for happy talk.” 😉
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Do we (priveleged) few people really have the right to mock other people for their denial of reality? I am pretty sure you know that the vast majority of people on this planet have no choice but to engage in dehumanizing slave labour to earn money to survive. Alot of people are working themselves to death (literally) , just so that we have the privelege to talk about how human civilization will eventually end?
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Mocking others is a minor point when compared to the suffering from the consequences of their actions.
I’m my parents’ special child. 😉
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Remember, the following quote from Derrick Jensen: “civilization is not, and can never be, made sustainable. This is especially true for industrial civilization”. This statement is true. No, human civilization was/is remotely sustainable. That includes pre-industrial civilizations like the Romans, Greeks, Medieval Europe, ancient China, etc. Every human civilization to ever exist causes catastrophic ecological damage and overshoot of the human population. The main difference between industrial civilization (and prior human civilizations) is that when industrial civilization collapses, it will mean the permanent end of human civilization. And the extinction of the Homo Sapiens.
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Am I the only person here who thinks the end of human civilization is not very far away? I am genuinely convinced that NTHE is inevitable at this point. It is blatantly obvious that the quality of life is rapidly deteriorating…sure, we may now have fancier technology than 50 or 100 years ago, but the overall direction that human civilization is headed towards is very, very bleak. I am not convinced that technology will save us…in fact, I don’t think that any combination of technologies can extend the life span of industrial civilization. Let alone prevent the inevitable collapse of industrial civilization.
It is blatantly obvious that there is no combination of resources or energy that can replace fossil fuels…coal, petroleum and natural gas. Yet, these resources are nonrenewable, and we are completely dependent on fossil fuels…for everything. While they are relatively abundant, these fossil fuel resources are being depleted extremely quickly. Thanks to the enornous and exponentially growing human population. The same applies to mineral ores, top soil and literally every other conceivable natural resource that humans depend on. No matter how abundant the Earth’s resources may seem, these resources will be completely consumed/gone in the very near future thanks to the 8,000,000,000 humans on the planet. Not to mention, the 200,000 plus people being added onto this planet literally everyday. 1,500,000 plus people being added every week. 7,000,000 plus people being added every month. 90,000,000 extra people being added every year on this planet. 1,000,000,000 extra people being added every 12 to 15 years.
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“It is blatantly obvious that the quality of life is rapidly deteriorating…”
Bring on the more badder consequences. I it will be fun to see the web,cellphone & other technologies, due to horrible effects of global warming, gradually fail. I’m not a gambling man but I would bet a cheap cup of coffee that we are several steps into NTHE.
Thank you,over breeding monkey minds. Breeding is like them flinging shit all over their cage. The odor might become unbearable.
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As for peak oil, it is indeed real and happening. Global oil extraction is already in permanent and rapid decline (due to depletion of oil reserves). Global oil extraction has already dropped down from 95 million barrels per day (mbpd) in 2019 (at its peak) down to 80 to 85 mbpd in 2022. In another year from now (in 2023), it will drop down to 70 to 75 mbpd. In 2025, it is projected to drop down to a measely 50 to 55 mpbd. Do you know what kind of catastrophic effects that will have on the global economy and industrial civilization? As oil extraction continues its permanent decline, it means permanent economic contraction because the decreasing availability of oil, means decreasing economic activity. Since oil is the life blood of industrial civilization, when this energy source continues to decrease in availability, economic activity will continue to decrease. Leading to poverty, unemployment, starvation, crime and social decay on an unprescedented level never before seen in human history. Despite peak oil causing greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions to decline, the GHGs already in the atmosphere (from prior decades of industrial activities) is enough to trigger abrupt and catastrophic climate change. At 423 ppm + of CO2 and tons of other GHG gases in the atmosphere (like methane), abrupt and catastrophic climate change is already well underway. And since 2019, we now have a completely ice free Arctic Ocean during the summertime, which is a major tipping point in the globe’s climate. Combined with all other nonrenewable resources, which all also being rapidly depleted. Like mineral ores and top soil. And a completely unsustainable human population of 8,000,000,000 people, is it any surprise that collapse of industrial civilization and near-term human extinction is inevitable?
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Like I already said before, when the global supply chains do permanently collapse (in the not-too-distant future), literally no human will get out alive = NTHE.
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Guy McPherson’s prediction for human extinction by 2026 or 2030 may be off by a few years. Perhaps, human civilization will still be around by 2026 or 2030, and I would imagine that NTHE-deniers will be saying “look 2026 and 2030 has passed, and human civilization is still around. This means that NTHE will never happen!”. Ok, this statement is just a false sense of security for the deluded masses and the ruling class. I wouldn’t be surprised that NTHE doesn’t happen by 2026 or 2030…but all that means is delaying the inevitable. What is important is that the overwhelming scientific evidence shows that NTHE will happen. If it doesn’t happen by 2026 or 2030, makes no real difference in the grand scheme of things. Because all that means is that it will happen at a slightly later date.
Look, the collapse of industrial civilization/NTHE is inevitable…because the scientific evidence supporting this conclusion is absolutely overwhelming. And all the evidence shows that it will happen within the life time of anyone born after 1980. The reality of NTHE is just like the reality of death for an individual human being…something that is inevitable. Some people say “look the collapse of industrial civilization will never happen because, some guy 20 or 30 years ago, said it would happen around 2020, and it didn’t happen!” Of course, this is faulty logic because that is like saying “look, I am 60 years old in 2020, and I am still alive. Therefore, I will never die.”
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Sexual gratification & no concern for what overpopulation can do to their habitat. Nothing happens against the will of Allah. Everything will be fine in Egypt.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-egypt-population-idUSKCN1Q91RJ
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This may be a little off topic, but just FYI, what is (almost) always ignored and overlooked about capitalism is the concept of usury. Like Matt Savinar wrote in a book in 2005, the root of capitalism is usury. The root of the profit motive is USURY. Usury, which is the idea that you must pay back more money than the amount you burrowed. For example, if you burrow 300 dollars from a PayDay Loan bank, you must pay back not only the 300 dollars you burrowed, but an additional 20 dollars of interest. For a total payment of 320 dollars of payment off of a 300 dollar loan you burrowed.
How is money created? Whenever a bank loans money, money is literally loaned into existence. But there is a catch for the burrower of money. They must pay back even more money than the amount that was burrowed… to the lender of money. The only way for a burrower of money to pay back more money than what was burrowed is for there to be non-stop economic growth…the economic growth is necessary to pay back the interest on loans that are burrowed. The only way individuals and businesses can pay back the money they burrowed ( in addition to the interest attached to every loan) is there to be non-stop economic growth. And the only way for there to be non-stop economic growth is for the consumption of natural resources and fossil fuel energy to constantly grow. The only way to stimulate non-stop consumption of natural resources (to sustain our global, economic pyramid scheme) is to encourage non-stop growth in human population.
Like this blog mentioned back in 2013, it is obvious that capitalism feeds off overpopulation, and is, to a great degree, dependent on it. Of course, because of peak oil and the peak-every-other-resource crisis, non-stop growth in human population on a planet of finite resources to sustain an infinite-growth economic paradigm cannot continue forever. And we are literally now witnessing the collapse of global capitalism…as shortages of fossil fuel energy (and literally other natural resource) makes the global economy enter permanent contraction. In other words, the economy is literally starting to shrink. Literally, meaning SHTF is gonna to happen…in fact, the collapse of industrial civilization is literally happening right now, as the global economy is in perpetual contraction. Because the rate of fossil fuel extraction has already entered permanent decline.
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‘Keep on using me, until you usury me up.’
I’m looking for funding to start a business that can turn $1000 into $10,000. STOP! Just found out there are already businesses doing that. I think they call them banks. Let’s them get rich loaning fools fiat currency.
Fictional reserve lending is the only cure for one’s economic ills. TARP/bank bailouts, ZIRP, tax breaks for the rich & corporations & QE has made the average stupid American rich? Trickle down must be working. At least that damned old Glass-Steagall is out of the way.
To everyone, go to your bank & find out how much of your cash you can withdraw,now.
Glad Nixon got rid of the gold standard. Who wants to carry around heavy metal? Strong paper with pretty color ink is much more desirable.
Sarcasm is a bitch when it rubs the truth all over one’s face.
FMTT! All I can do is rant at the dying of critical thinking.
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Except alot of money is not even pieces of paper. It is now mostly digital currency. Accounting and book keeping for money used to be done on pieces of paper. Now, it is mostly done on computer software on computers.
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The “good” news is that when industrial civilization and near-term human extinction does finally happen, the sociopathic “elites” will perish along with the rest of humanity. You really think that billions and trillions of dollars of worthless, fiat currency would matter when the literal end of human civilization and human extinction happens? Of course not.
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A couple of months ago, I posted a comment on this blog that stated that we already exceeded 2oC increase in global average temperature by 2020/2021. And several people commented, denying this claim was true. Just FYI, in 2015, global average temperature was already 1 oC above the 1750 baseline. By 2016/2017, it was already 1.5 oC above baseline (as mentioned by Guy McPherson). So my logical projection, that average global temperatures have already exceeded the “safe” 2oC above baseline mark by 2020, was merely a projection of recent data. And I guess, I was right about the 2oC above baseline mark being exceeded, from a comment by TR a few weeks ago. It is obvious that abrupt climate change is happening much faster than anyone predicted 15 or 20 years ago. Now, the question is, can we keep global warming under the 4oC above baseline? And I think that 4oC above baseline is already guranteed at this point…the only reason it hasn’t reached it yet is because of aerosal masking, keeping the temperatures lower than what it would otherwise be at. Problem is when industrial civilization does collapse (in the not-too-distant future), the aerosal masking effect would quickly be removed, and therefore the temperatures will almost immediately skyrocket to 4oC above baseline.
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Delusional, techno-utopian morons still think that human technological “progress” will go on forever, and that humans will colonize Mars by 2100. Of course, we rational doomers know that human extinction is right around the corner. I can gurantee that is zero chance of humans colonizing Mars, and Elon Musk is a big fat liar. There probably won’t be a single human left on Earth in 2100. So much for colonizing Mars lol.
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“Other scientists described the news as “bleak” and “deeply depressing”.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/10/carbon-emissions-from-fossil-fuels-will-hit-record-high-in-2022-climate-crisis
I call bullshit. America elected more Reps & Dems, the world is saved.
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CO2 emissions hit record high, which is surprising considering that global oil extraction is now in permanent decline. That extra CO2 emissions must be coming from coal burning. Regardless, I predict GHG emissions will soon decline because of peak oil and economic contraction. Of course, that is not going to stop runaway climate change because of all the damage that current and prior CO2 emissions have already done to the globe’s climate.
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People who deny the Holocaust are called Holocaust Deniers. People who deny climate change are called climate change deniers. People who are deny overpopulation are called…wait, there doesn’t exist a term to describe overpopulation denial…probably because overpopulation denial is the default state of the vast majority of the population. Yet, the human population growth continues to exponentially skyrocket despite there already being a gross excess number of people on the planet. Overpopulation is the invisible elephant in the room. It is so freaking obvious, yet (almost) everyone pretends it isn’t real. In fact, most people act as though it isn’t real. Which is why so many people are trying to outlaw abortion. The popularity of anti-abortion activism is proof that overpopulation denial is the status quo. In fact, one might argue that the goal of industrial civilization is cramming as many people onto the planet as possible. Until we run out of resources and are drowned by pollution. And civilization catastrophically and abruptly ends. And then, everyone perishes. Human extinction is the end result.
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This was a surprise,to see talk of climate change on this site that post economic data & opinion.
https://zensecondlife.blogspot.com/
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Who created that blog? You?
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Neither one of us need a blog,we control CoIC. 😉
If I had a blog,there would only be one post – “All of you 8,000,000,000 self absorbed, egotistical, narcissistic Special Clever Apes are going to die from your overpopulation of your habitat.”
The title of my blog would be – “Don’t Come Here for Happy Talk.”
Shoot the messenger. He doesn’t give a shit that a species can’t handle the truth. They sure as hell won’t be able to handle the consequences of their actions/in-actions. The messenger won’t be the only one to, “Lay there & bleed.”
The only thing on my bucket list is to live long enough to see masses of Clever Apes die, from the consequences of AGW.
DAMN! This comment even offended me. 😉
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Since 2023 is less than 1 1/2 months away, why don’t we make some predictions of what 2023 will be like? One thing is guranteed: the price of food will continue to increase. Sure, wages may increase a bit, but that will be completely negated by the corresponding increase in the price of food (and other industrial products and commodities). In other words, the price of food will increase faster than any perceived increase in wages. Meaning, those people, at (or near) the bottom of the socio-economic hierarchy, will increasingly run out of the ability to earn enough money for adequeate food supplies.
And while global oil extraction is already in permanent decline, there may not be any perceived shortage of oil in 2023 (yet) because economic contraction has caused demand destruction of oil. In other words, as more and more people fall into destitution and poverty, their ability to consume fossil fuels (and other natural resources) decreases. Giving us the illusion that peak oil isn’t real…but really it just means that global economic contraction has destroyed oil demand sufficiently enough to give us the illusion that the global oil extraction isn’t already in perpeutal decline.
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And the majority of people are still under the delusion that some new technology will prevent the collapse of industrial civilization from happening. What these people don’t realize is that none of our modern technology could exist without cheap and abundant fossil fuels. In fact, without fossil fuels, we aren’t reverting back to the Stone Age…we are probably headed straight into the black void of extinction when it is no longer possible to extract fossil fuels out of the Earth’s crust, in the not-too-distant future. Not only are fossil fuels rapidly being depleted to nothing, but all of the other nonrenewable resources that humans depend on are soon going to be all gone (like metalliac ores and top soil). We are literally leaving behind a barren, lifeless planet with all of its useful resources completely exhausted and depleted for future human generations (of course, it is doubtful there will be any humans alive on this planet in another couple of decades from now). All the while, we pretend that human civilization is never gonna permanently end. Let alone permanently end in the relatively near future. And we continue to pretend that human extinction is not remotely possible because humans are too adaptive and clever to go extinct.
The myth of human exceptionalism is easy to debunk. Humans are not infinitely clever and adaptable. We are just clever enough to invent and build technologies that allow for the (temporary) expansion of human population… by extracting the Earth’s finite and nonrenewable resources at an ever-quickening pace. But we’ve already reached the limits to human population growth, and the Earth’s finite and nonrenewable resources will soon be all gone. So, in the end, humans are just no different from any other species that overshoots its habitat. Except in our case, humans have so thoroughly destroyed their own habitat that they have assured their own complete extinction within a few short decades from now.
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A challenge to those in the Matrix – Improve on Cool’s comment.
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I think a little prognosticaten is in order.;-)
We will be finished planet destroying in less than 10 years. That’s my $2,000,000,000 worth.
That’s not stupid,it’s merely foolish. 440 plus nuclear power plants & stored radio active waste sites might continue destroying for a longer period. This rock won’t need a sun,it will glow in the dark.
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We can’t turn off industrial civilization because if we did, we will all quickly perish from, not just nuclear reactor meltdowns, but the lack of food and water (from the collapse of the global supply chains and permanent electrical blackouts). If we keep industrial civilization running, all we end of doing is delaying its inevitable collapse (while continuing the unsustainability of human population overshoot). It is obvious that humanity is doomed. Keeping industrial civilization running will only mean the continued impoverishment and exploitation of the world’s poor and working class, the continued ruination of the global ecosystems, continue pumping of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere at an unpresdented rate, etc. But when industrial civilization does finally end, all of the humans on the planet will quickly perish, most of the wild fauna and flora will already be extinct, and all of the greenhouse gases emitted by civilization will continue to persist for many centuries and millenia even long after they cease being emitted. Meaning climate chaos will persist even long after civilization collapses. This is the reality of peak oil and global warming. Even if all industrial activities cease immediately, we are already headed towards a 4 to 6 oC above baseline world because of all of the damage already in the climate change pipeline. Yes, fossil fuels are rapidly being depleted, but at the same time, all of the pollution from fossil fuel burning accumulated from prior and current industrial activities continue to rapidly warm the planet. Climate chaos is getting worse, despite the depletion of fossil fuels, because of the time lag effect between the release of GHGs and the warming associated with their release. The release of GHGs into the atmosphere does not immediately rise global temperatures. It takes a few years for its effects on the climate to be truly felt.
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I am fairy certain that smartphones will be the last and final new technological gimmick that industrial civilization invents before its inevitable collapse. During the past 15 to 20 years, smartphones and tablet PCs were the only “major”, “new” technology invented. But really, they aren’t a breakthrough invention because they are completely dependent on the prior technologies to exist (like the invention of microchips, internal combustion engines, and steam engines). Smartphones operate on the exact same technological principals as PCs (like laptops and desktop computers)…microchips and plastics derived from fossil fuels and mining. Really, no amount of technology can ever fix human stupidity…not even “smart”phones, nor could technology rewrite the immutable laws of physics and chemistry. There is absolutely zero chance coal, petroleum and natural gas will ever be replaced by a new energy source. Anyone saying otherwise is stupid or delusional.
Look on the bright side, professional “artists” are now drawing cartoons, animations, video games and other mass-produced, commerialized “art” on touchscreen, tablet PCs with styluses…made out of more plastic-based technologies derived from fossil fuels and mining. Yep, talk about technological “progress” (note my sarcasm). Yeah, we few, enlightened doomers know that these new technological gimmicks will do absolutely nothing to prevent NTHE from happening.
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The Clever Ape is delusion-ally stupid or stupidly delusion.
That’s a win/win!
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Look this way. When Karl Marx wrote Das Capital 150 years ago, industrial civilization was already highly dependent on fossil fuels. When David Price wrote the Energy and Human Evolution essay in 1995, industrial civilization was even more highly dependent on fossil fuels. And even back in 1995, he predicted overpopulation, resource depletion, climate change and environmental degradation would eventually lead to NTHE…sometime in the 21st century. Fast forward to 2022, industrial civilization is even more dependent on fossil fuels than the prior two dates I mentioned.
http://web.archive.org/web/20220524111716/https://dieoff.com/page137.htm
David Price, predicted in 1995, that the demand and consumption of fossil fuels would only continue to grow as global human population and industrialization continued to increase. And guess what? He was 100% right. In 2022, industrial civilization was burning literally twice as much coal than in 1995. In fact, the consumption and combustion of coal increased at a significantly faster rate than the combustion of oil. Even though oil consumption is now in decline (due to peak oil), coal combustion continues to frantically increase…thus leading to increasing GHG emissions in every subsequent year. And what is that coal combustion being used for? For the manufacturing of computers, smartphones, TVs, cars, and basically everything mass-manufactured…especially stuff “Made in China”. Basically, coal and petroleum are still the two leading energy sources for industrial civilization, accounting for about 60% of the energy we consume every year. These two fossil fuel commodities will continue to be extracted, sold and burnt until the day when industrial civilization does permanently end.
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Just FYI, AI (Artificial Intelligence) is starting to remove the need for human workers in many sectors of the economy. Of course, this AI will not fix any of the fundamental problems of industrial civilization because AI is just another by-product of environmentally-destructive energy from fossil fuels. AI is just another technological gimmick…that will do absolutely nothing to save humans from their inevitable extinction in the not-too-distant future. Of course, AI will make the phase “useless eaters” even more obvious as more and more of the human population will literally be rendered useless by AI.
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AI created by the Clever Ape, probably means we are fucked.
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AI will be most efficient at removing many office jobs…like accountants, software engineers and lawyers. The very jobs responsible for creating AI are, ironically, the ones that AI can most easily replace. Of course, AI isn’t any groundbreak technology…it has been around for many decades already. And AI is, not surprisingly, only possible because of cheap and abundant energy from fossil fuels…like everything else of industrial civilization.
AI has severe limitations…not only is it incapable of replacing fossil fuels, but AI will always need human assistance. “Development” of AI is not a groundbreaking technological innovation. It is merely the last dying breaths of industrial civilization; a civilization that is rapidly running out of any meaningful technological “innovations” to extend its lifespan.
Look at all of that technological “innovation” from the development of Windows 95 to Windows 11! (Just joking, btw). TBH, it is just planned obsolesence. Make some minor (mostly insignificant) changes in the appearance of a product to give customers the illusion of on-going technological “progress”. It is pretty obvious that technological “progress” is an illusion. Especially in 2022. All of the groundbreaking technologies were invented many decades ago. And it is highly unlikely that any new groundbreaking technologies will be invented from this point onwards. None of it matters, anyways, because it will do absolutely nothing to delay–let alone prevent–collapse of industrial civilization and NTHE from happening.
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Just a a bit of graffitti to grace your wall:
Constitutional hereditary monarchy was a bad idea during the time of the apostle Thomas. Constitutional hereditary monarchy was a bad idea during the time of Thomas Aquainus. Constitutional hereditary monarchy was a bad idea during the time of Thomas Paine. 200 years after that humans still admire their human monarchs. But not the butterfly kind.
If humans can not figure out simple things after thousands of years what are the chances that they are going to figure out complex problems in a matter of decades?
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I am not sure if there will be any humans on this planet in another couple of decades from now. So much for the “wise” ape hehehe. There is not the slightest chance that BAU will change…until complete collapse of industrial civilization and NTHE occurs.
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Just recently learned that modern, industrial, mechanized agriculture is now completely dependent on GPS-tracking systems and the Internet. Just shows how screwed we are when industrial civilization does finally end in the not-too-distant future.
Just FYI, the “development” of new technology will do absolutely nothing to save the Clever Ape from extinction. New technology makes it impossible for prior technology to exist without the existence of newer technology. For example, the development and proliferation of agriculture made it impossible for anyone to live off of hunting and gatherering. The development of fossil fuel-based technology made it impossible for agriculture to exist without fossil-fuel-based technology. Now, the development of microchips, computers and the Internet makes it impossible for both fossil-based technology and agriculture to exist without the new electronic gadgets.
Now, when civilization does finally end for good, we won’t revert back to Stone-Age hunting and gatherering. Because the resources for that life style has been completely destroyed by both agriculture and industrialization. We aren’t reverting back to pre-industrial, agricultural societies (i.e. the Middle Ages) because the resources for that life style has also been completely destroyed by industrialization. We aren’t reverting back to pre-computer, industrial society (i.e. early 20th century industrial civilization) because the fossil-fuels, top soil, metalliac minerals, and other natural resources have already been completely depleted/destroyed by civilization. We aren’t colonizing other planets because, well, that simply isn’t possible. So when industrial civilization does finally end for good, Homo Sapiens will be headed towards NTE (near-term extinction).
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Picking a Putin Bone or a Fisch Bone with the left or Why the political left failed to save the world.
The left failed to implement a global world order because it was wedded to the principle of democracy. Democracy guarantees failure. Why it guarantees failure I will address shortly.
An authoritarian maternalistic society was the only hope that humanity had for achieving a just sustainable long term existence. It is now to late for for any leaders to save humanity.
The best that could have been done would have been to murder those who have brought us to where we are now. But that is not going to happen.
An authoritarian maternalistic society could be achieved such a political system can easily degenerate in to a totalitarian paternalistic society. So the hope that an authoritarian maternalistic society offered humanity was a very very slim one.
The key to success in any society, or on any planet is the quality of leadership. But the key to understanding why humanity has failed is to understand that they is NO systematic way to ensure or even increase the odds that leaders of quality will come to occupy positions of power in a society. It would take unusually good luck for such a thing to happen.
Democratic institutions offer no solution to preventing psychopaths or sociopaths from coming to power. When I refer to democratic institutions I am refering to the concept that every adult should have an equal say in the decisions that a society makes. I am not refering to rights like freedom of speech or freedom from torture. These types of constraints on a governments behavior are republican characteristics and are frequently confused with and labeled democratic but that is not strictly the case.
Why the western left has has made a sacred cow out of the concept one adult one vote is beyond me. First of all in principle a society will be held back by the most stupid half of the population. The fact that no one knows for sure who the people are in the most stupid have of the population does not change the fact that such a half exists and that it will hold a society back.
The second major problem is that for democracy to function effectively the voters must be well educated, well informed and honest. But there is no way to force voters who do not want to obtain these virtues to do so.
The third major problem with voting is campaigning. campaigning itself leads to a corrupting influence on society. Lying aside campaigners need to promise things to the voters to obtain their support leading to a short term outlook in society.
A final problem that I wish to point out is special interest manipulation of the political process. Special interests can obtain huge profits with minimal investment and risks where as those people who wish to oppose special interests in the public arena have nothing to gain and almost always end up losing a lot. Special interests can also attempt to subvert an authoritarian government. And such attempts will often prove successful. But since those who make the determinations of whether or not to implement the wishes of special interests have nothing to lose other than the opportunity to accept a bribe they will be a tad more likely to block the wishes of special interests that will damage society as a whole.
How would decisions be made in an authoritarian maternalistic society. It would be Confucian in nature, broadly speaking. Teachers would select students with special temperments who would then receive extensive civil servant training. These graduates would become the administers and guardians of society. This is not a new idea at all. It just rarely gets implemented because it does not serve the wishes of those that live by exploiting those weaker than themselves.
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Point of Clarification: When I wrotet that the best that could have been done was to murder those who brought us to where we are now, I meant the best that could have been done after it became to late to properly address the environmental factors that will lead to human extinction.
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Good to see some a new commenter.
If Adam & Eve had aborted Cain & Abel we might not be in this situation. If I wasn’t here the habitat would be celebrating one less problem of overpopulation,which is the source of all our problems?
I’m a Special child of parents who were Special children of Special parents,who were Special …..
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Did that occur on or before January 6th 1981, January 6th 1991, January 6th 2001, January 6th 2011, or January 6th 2021?
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It is certianly not surprising that there is a western proxy war against Russia (and China and Iran) now in full swing as the end of humanity nears.
This event could have been predicted 20 years ago if not 30 years ago. By the way this war is also a proxy war against Germany. The subservient German government has to take the United States MIC dick up their ass and pretend that this is a war of Russian aggression against the Ukriane. A key objective of this war is to prevent closer ties between German elites and Russian elites based upon shared economic interests which of course scared the hell out of the real leadership of the USA which is the leadership of the US MIC. I have never understood whether those Germans who make the important decisions are subservient to the US MIC out of love or out of fear.
That stuff about Germany was only a digression though. Nothing that get reported about the compition between the west on one hand and China, Russia, Iran and North Korea on the other hand can be trusted. But if the west is winning I would not be surprised. There is plenty of evidence that their opponents are not only technically inferior. There is plenty of evidence that their leadership(s) are stupid to boot.
I still support these idiots though, and suffer for it, because one thing that burns my ass more than being stupid is being dishonest. The evidence that the west is not dealing with the rest of the world in good faith is overwhelming. That means that the leadership of the west and by implication all of the institutions that support them are dishonest. (corrupt)
The vast majority of the populations of the west see themselves as free citizens. But freedom has become synonomous in the west with the freedom (ability) to exploit others weaker than yourself.
That the people run their governments through free and fair elections is also a wide spread illusion because the vast majority due not understand that they are like fish swimming in a sea of fraud.
Ahh but I almost forgot the evidence that the leadership(s) of those nations resisting the won world empire, with the exception of the Cubans, are really not very smart. A key clue is that these nations either never had term limits for leaders in the first place or the abolished term limits.
A key difference between an authoritarian maternalistic government and a totalitarian paternalistic government is that there are functioning institutional checks and balances in an authoritarian maternalistic government but not in a totalitarian one.
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You almost forgot to mention that the mainstream media (MSM) intentionally spreads false information and propaganda. The vast majority of people are completely brainwashed and misinformed, yet they don’t even realize it.
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Minor correction – Mainslime media.
Anytime I watch the news, I feel that if I could follow the money I would know their agenda. “That’s not stupid,it’s merely foolish.” Everyone knows that money is the agenda.
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The mainstream media is mostly just lies, distractions and advertising propaganda designed to increase the profit margins of corporations. I am glad that I don’t even watch TV. Yet, the majority of people watch that shit on TV (btw, TV includes Netflix and other forms of Internet TV, and not just cable TV), and actually think it is REAL. No wonder humans are headed towards extinction! The vast majority of people are completely brainwashed and delusional…of course, when the collapse of industrial civilization does finally happen (which the majority of people never saw it coming), we all know what the end result is…near-term human extinction.
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Now for the bad news. Real scientists know that this world is not real. We live in a simulated universe. Yes it seems real. The pain that you feel when you stub your toe is real. But our space and time is an illusion. Gravity might actually not be an illusion. But even if gravity is real, our experience (our understanding) of our space and time can still be an illusion.
What proof do I have that we live in a simulation. 12 scientific experiments that do not make any sense. The most famous of these being the intertwined wool and cotton experiment. Science has proven that a 60-40% mix of wool and cotton makes for the most comfortable mens underwear yet this mix is rarely if ever found in stores.
Being part of a simulation has many disturbing implications. One we do not know the purpose of the simulation.
Two it is possible that all people are NOT created equal. This was a tough one for me. Because the idea that we are all created equal was for 60 years of my life a sacred cow for me.
OK let me clarify that I still think that we are all born equal in the sense that we all deserve a life of love and happiness, at least until we start doing things that diminish our claims on love and happiness by treating other innocent people badly. But we may not all be equal in our awareness of our environment. Some people could have more knowledge about what the purpose of our simulation is and their role in than other people.
On the other hand some people could be shallow masks that are no more than extras in the production of the simulation.
Three those running the simulation do not have to follow the rules that they used when they started running the simulation.
A disturbing implication of that possibility of changing the rules is that humans may not go extinct in the near future. I find that very disturbing because frankly I think that humanity would be better off extinct than still hanging around. Even in a fair and just run world the really horrible things that can happen to a person are thousands of times worse than the best things that could happen to a person. Buddhists get this. Life is not a gift. Life is an unfair test. Dead people do not suffer.
We do not know what the purpose of our unfair test is. Those responsible for its existence (our simulations existence) may decide that they need it to run longer than the rest of this century to fullfill the purpose that it was designed for. If that is the case I do not for see that we will be saved by some grand miracle whip, like the parting of the Red Sea. No, it would be more like ten thousand little miracles that each change the world in some small way that is to small to be detected by humans.
If we are saved by some Grand Miracle like an invansion of Martians here to arrest Elon Musk. Those Martians will be as simulated as we are.
I figured that a civilized way for humanity to go extinct was due to a low birthrate. But others more powerful than myself could take the view that a faster method is more humain. I have the humility not to argue with them.
I will end on that hopeful note.
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Kill the messenger! We don’t want to hear the truth. 😉
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It is pretty obvious that we are already reaching (or already at) the limits of technological complexity. It is painfully obvious that the Clever Ape is running out of new technological gimmicks to invent. For example, the graphics on the PS5 are not any “better”–at all– than the PS4. And the graphics on the PS4 were only slightly “improved” over the PS3. And the same applies to smartphones. The graphics on smartphones in 2022 are only slightly “improved” from those made 10 years ago–in 2012. And now, it is painfully obvious that even slight “improvements” in the performance of consumer electronics is no longer possible. It is pretty obvious that technological “progress” is mostly a myth, especially by 2022 (almost 2023). And no amount of technological “progress” can replace the rapidly-depleting energy from nonrenewable fossil fuels (coal, petroleum and natural gas). Because all modern technology is a by-product of fossil fuels, and cannot exist without it.
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Just FYI, the Atari 2600 in the late 1970s and the PS5 in 2022 may seem like technological progress, but when you realize that all these consumer products were and still are (and will continue into the future) produced by the same environmentally-destructive fossil fuel energy of coal, petroleum and natural gas, you will realize how technological “progress” is a myth. When you realize that global coal consumption continues to rise every subsuqent year–to produce more of our “smart”phones, laptops, computers, automobiles, and other technological gimmicks–you will realize how technological “progress” is a myth.
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Here is the bottom line: the governments of the world certainly know that there is absolutely nothing, in any combination, that can replace fossil fuels. Otherwise, why are they supressing the reality of peak oil, by censoring videos and articles on the Internet that expose this ugly reality? The government so vehemently denies peak oil that they spread disinformation articles about it i.e. telling people how “renewable” energies can replace fossil fuels. Or the government spreads BS about how nuclear fusion energy will soon be developed and replace fossil fuels (which is, of course, a big fat lie. Fusion energy is–and will always remain–not even remotely possible). Or the government pretends that fossil fuels are an inexhaustible resource that we will never run ever run out. We apparently “produce” fossil fuels rather than the reality of extracting them. The same applies to every other natural resource. Companies “produce” iron ore rather than extract it. It is still incorrectly assumed by economists that the Earth’s natural resources are inexhaustible and infinite. But the reality is that fossil fuels–as well as, all of the Earth’s other finite, natural resources, especially the nonrenewable ones–are being rapidly depleted, and that collapse of industrial civilization and the mass die off of the global human population is probably no more than 5 to 10 years away.
Also, the status quo vehemently denies the reality of human overpopulation by suggesting that the Earth can easily support the current human population, and easily another couple of billion of extra people. With the help of yet-to-be-developed technology! But this is all a big fat lie. In reality, the global human population has already been unsustainable for many decades (if not centuries), and within the next 5 to 10 years, the human overpopulation bubble will crash. And literally billions of people around the world will perish by 2040 from global famine and societal collapse caused by resource depletion, environmental degradation, and abrupt climate change.
I am pretty sure that there might not be any humans on Earth within the next 20 to 30 years. Or 30 to 40 years at best. So we get NTHE.
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No water at faucets will deal with overpopulation.
Deniers have unlimited sources of water, they never have to do without. They can create trillions of gallons of fresh potable water by simply hitting the “any” key, just like money created out of the ether.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2022/12/01/drought-colorado-river-lake-powell/
How bad can the consequences of stupidity affect the uninformed blinder wearers? Slow motion shit,hitting the fan.
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I don’t if it is just me, but I find TV almost completely unbearable to watch for more than an hour or two at a time. I watched some doomer videos on Youtube recently (the Youtube links that I posted on this site btw), but other that, I don’t watch this television crap. I rather be watching some real life stuff…like actual moving people, animals and things in the REAL WORLD rather than that virtual reality, TV crap. I played some video games a few years ago. And I quickly found it to be garbage and unenjoyable. Yet a surprisingly large percentage of people actually find this TV, video game and other virtual reality garbage enjoyable. What the hell? How can humans become so detached from reality? I dunno. I would like your input.
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I’m with you on video games & a lot of TV. I never joined any social media. I did join a couple of sites where I shared all my knowledge.;-) When I pointed out a lot of the hypocrisy I was reading & comforted some with facts, without personal attacks, I got my ass moderated/banned. I do watch listen to YouTube music videos on my stereo or my music collection for pleasure.
The truth is not always pleasant. My consolation is that all snowflakes, moderators & deniers will suffer the similar fate. That might be a horrible death for many of us.
I think regardless of politics,religion & economics the species will continue to procreate & focus on more/progress & not being content with they have. The only thing I can think of is that these actions must be in our DNA & science has failed to pinpoint these genes, or are we are in a pandemic of delusions & psychiatrists my not have recognized that malady yet.
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Just FYI, I have known for a long time that religion is BS. The fact that so many people believe it is just more proof that NTHE is gonna happen. So much for the “wise” ape lol. I think that humans are definitely gonna get NTE. And there is NO ONE or NOTHING coming to save us. The day of reckoning is certainly going to happen. And soon after that, there won’t be any people left on the planet.
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Just FYI, there is nothing remotely sustainable about industrial civilization. Like some people pointed out before, the so-called technological “progress” of the past two to three hundred years is mostly an illusion…created by humanity’s ability to exploit fossil fuels.
There is a reason why collapse of industrial civilization (almost) gurantees NTHE..literally everyone on this planet is dependent on globalized, fossil fuel-powered supply chains for literally everything…especially for food and water production/ distribution! When those globalized, supply chains do permanently collapse (in the not-too-distant future), it literally means global food and water production/distribution permanently stops. And with 8,000,000,000 plus people on this planet, the end result of collapse of industrial civilization is obvious…near term human extinction, because there is no longer the ability to provide ANY amount of food and water to the masses.
And don’t think for a second that we can “return” to nature for sustainable substience. Nature clearly isn’t capable of providing the food and water needs of 8,000,000,000 humans! The only reason there is 8 billion humans on this planet in 2022 is because humans have rapaciously plundered and destroyed the natural world via our entire history on this planet…especially during the past couple of thousands of years of civilization. And the day of reckoning is upon us. Near term human extinction is what happens when humans delude themselves with organized religions convincing that they are superior and above the natural world…and thereby justifying their rapacious plundering and destruction of nature. But there is no “god”. Mother Nature will soon exterminate every single one of these rapacious monkeys called Homo Sapiens.
There is literally ONLY one solution to the human overpopulation problem: near term human extinction. And that solution will soon arrive.
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“Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth”. – Buddha
When deniers finally face the truth it might be too late.
How’s the truth going to work out for Trump?
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2019 was a very important year for two reasons:
1) Global oil extraction peaked at an all-time high, and soon started entering perpetual decline.
2) The summer ice in the Arctic Ocean has completely disappeared. We no longer have any ice cover on the Arctic Ocean during the summer time. This will usher runaway global warming
Those two events are the major turning points in the 21st century, and will usher global famine and complete societal collapse within this decade or next decade.
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Here is a good question to ask: is it even a “secret” that the entire edifice of industrial civilization is built off of burning fossil fuels, and that there is literally no viable alternative to fossil fuels? Or is this a fact that relatively few people are aware of?
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I recently read that 500,000,000,000 tonnes (500 billion tonnes) of fossil fuels were burned during the past 300 years of the Industrial Revolution. About 3/4 of this fossil fuels burned in past 50 years alone. Sounds unbelievable? Look at all of the coal mining and burning happening right now.
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Yet, there are clueless morons out there that think that industrial civilization can exist without fossil fuels. Let’s see how long they will last when industrial civilization finally ends for good? Near term human extinction will soon exterminate every human on this planet.
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About 15 years ago I began to consider the a historical event from a new perspective. Prior to that my view of the part of the universe that we can see is a place with out rhyme or reason. Billions of years ago there was an explosion. Then everything that happened after that was a inevitable result of the initial conditions in the milliseconds after that explosion. Our history was a deterministic one.
But around 16 or perhaps 17 years ago I began to percieve that something more is going on than just atoms and molecules bouncing off each other in more and ever more intricate patterns. I began to detect what i deduced was a non human interference in human history. Now there is of course another possible explination for the interference that I had detected. Two other possible explinations for the manipulation of world events are that the world’s clandestine intellegence agencies manipulate history, and that extra terrestial aliens manipulated history.
I also began listening to the many scientists that have been promoting the idea that those of us who are conscious beings are actually not in a base universe but in a simulated universe. The case for a simulated universe seems convincing to me. Also if we live in a simulated universe and it is at least occasionally being manipulated by those running the simulation such manipulation would technically speaking be manipulation by extra terrestial aliens. But I would differentiate between Aliens that run our simulation and Aliens who could be just as virtual as we are and come from some other place in our simulated universe. And if we are not in a simulation there could be Aliens that come from some where else in our real universe. And if they do come from somewhere else in our real universe my guess is that they do not come from some other place that is visable to us My guess is that they come to us from another dimension of our multiverse that we can not even detect and which our visable universe is only a small part of. If such Aliens existed and the were here they would have God like technological powers.
To summarize where that leaves this line of thought. There is one certian level of human society that has a vast technological power to gather vast amounts of information about human society. There is a complete lack of public accountability over this level due to the secrecy that surrounds their operations.
It is the level of the clandestine Intellegence Agencies like the CIA and MI5 and FSB. There are potentially extra terrestial aliens, as virtual or as real as we are. There is also potentially intellegent beings running a simulation that we are trapped inside of.
Finally we get to the event that I was pondering 15 years or so ago. It was the attempted bombing of an airplane carrying Adolf Hitler during the 2nd World War. A very reliable bomb of British design had been brought aboard the air craft by an unsuspecting courier who had been given a package by a member of the armed forces conspiracy against Hitler and the Nazis.
The bomb worked by having a timer inside of what appeared to be a wine bottle release some acid that would eat away at a metal thread that would release a spring once it broke which would set of a detinator inside of an explosive charge.
Unfortunately the bomb did not go off. It was retrieved by the conspirators before it was discovered that it was a bomb. It was examined and found that the metal thread was not eaten all the way through. A strand the thickness of a hair prevented the detenator from being set off.
Clearly the designers of the bomb and not taken in to account the possibility that air turbulence would scatter the acid in a manner that would make it much less effective. This type of bomb was probably not designed for use on an aircraft in any case. So one can not blame the bomb makers for its failure.
But was the failure of this bomb a just a case of bad luck??
If we humans had only this failure to go by we could easily chalk it up to bad luck. But we know now that this was not the only case in which Hitler escaped an assassination attempt by a hair.
This kind of thing happened over and over again.
These events played no part what so ever in my conclusion that we human are victims of science run amok outside of our field of vision. But I did have to ask myself, why a simulation director(s) would want to sabotage the efforts of noble humans in a justified attempt to improve the human situation.
Well because I wanted to believe in the possibility of human success at that time I discarded the obvious answer. I thought and wrote. these attempts to assissinate Hitler were sabotaged so that a new generation of rebel military insiders would be inspired to finish the job that the brave rebels of the Wehrmacht risked everything for. Sadly the obvious answer turned out to be the right one. The aliens or simulation directors need us humans to fail for purposes that we do not understand.
There is a related implied theme that goes along with this. That theme is conspiracies. The term conspiracy theorist was created back in the 1960s as a slur against those that did not accept the Warren Commission Report. But what that term obscures is that if one is not a conspiracy theorist one is by default a coincidence theorist. But this name calling can not really ever be settled because there is no scientific way to determine what coincidences are meaningful and what coincidences are irrelevent to the case.
An additional thought that I would like to add about conspiracies is even if Lee Oswald was the lone gunman in 1963 that does not mean that he acted alone or that we acted completely on his own initiative. Even if the WTC buildings were not brought down by explosives packed ahead of time in the buildings, and they were not brought down that way, does not mean that 9-11 was not an inside job.
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My conspiracy theory can be described by two words, crypto & fiat currency. Nothing like suckering in the suckers. Whoever is in charge is doing a great job.
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There are many ways to collapse civilization. Shooting electric power stations is a great way. They could have take down cell phone service and/or internet service. Bet that would get the tech addicted’s attention to, physical & not virtual, reality. All they have to do is hit the “any” key & all problems will be solved?
The Right to keep bear arms shall not be infringed regardless of how many 2nd Amendment, gun loving Rep/Cons are without power. Looks like Moore County, N.C. voted over 60% Rep/Con. How could they let this destruction happen under the “Law & Order” Party?
Wonder how many in Moore County, N.C. will lose a lot of their frozen food in their freezers?
Unfiltered Independent old codgers know,
“The truth is not always pleasant.” & shit happening is worse.
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Or the easiest way to cause industrial civilization to end is just let BAU to continue for a few more years until resource depletion, environmental degradation and abrupt climate change ends it? Just allow BAU to continue for a few more years, and civilization will cause itself to collapse because of its sheer unsustainability. Overpopulation (of 8,000,000,000 plus people) will soon severely deplete all of the Earth’s resources , and everyone dies when resource depletion and abrupt climate change causes human-extinction level global famine.
Sure, you may be born in 1949 (meaning you are relatively old), but you still might live long enough to see NTHE happen because it is probably just 5 to 10 years away. I was born in 1990, and I will almost certainly live long enough to see NTHE happen, especially if it is only 5 to 10 years away…unless I die from poverty and starvation (caused by economic contraction) before NTHE actually happens.
Btw, abrupt climate change is already starting to cause massive decrease in crop yields around the world. For example, Canada’s wheat harvest dropped by an alarming 33% this year, and Canada is one of the top exporters of wheat. Meaning many countries around the world may not be able to buy enough food to feed themselves as recently as next year! Abrupt climate change is already starting to cause global famine because there is already street protests in many countries over the recent increase in food prices. And we might only be 2 to 3 years away from when global famine causes industrial civilization to completely collapse. Peak oil ( and resource depletion in general), soil erosion, fresh water scarcity, environmental degradation, pollution, abrupt climate change, etc is already starting to cause crop yields around the world to drop. Crop yields are already starting to drop at an increasing rate in every subsquent year. Meaning humanity is already rapidly running out of the ability to feed itself. The recent, dramatic increase in food price around the world may be due this drop in crop yields. Meaning that global, Malthusian, civilization-ending famine is probably just 2 to 3 years away . Or 5 to 10 years away at best.
Do you agree with what I just said?
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I agree & now I’m depressed. I’m a 73 & +11 months old codger. Never thought I would enjoy my second childhood so much. I’m expecting a huge birthday party & many gifts.
The average lifespan of an American male is just over 77 years. Damn I have to deal with this crap another 3 years? AGW may take a lot of us out in the next 3 years.
Age difference has nothing to do with the ability to have a 20/20 view of reality. I get along better with those much younger than the old fools of my generation.
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As fun & entertaining as this stretched-out comments section is, perhaps a little Feud is in order.
On a recent installment on the Game Show Network, a family was winning and doing fine in the next round until the question was asked by host/comedian Steve Harvey “What term of endearment might be used by your grandmother towards you that also might by used by your significant other?”
A couple of easy choices came off the board, but the crazy-looking member of the fam had to dig deep down for her choice: “Pookie-Wookie!” I laughed my ass off.
If shit’s going to be toast, there’s also going be some funny stuff, too. Watch you some Feud, you’ll feel a little better for awhile.
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I look at alot of people in their 20s and 30s (and younger)…and I think they are so screwed. Very few of them will ever get to experience the “American Dream” in a world of depleting resources, overpopulation, deteriorating climate, disappearing natural world, etc. Their parents, grandparents and great grandparents etc grew up in a world where there was, at least, some semblance of the “middle class”. Now, in 2022, it is now just two classes remaining in the world…a tiny percentage of uber-wealthy elites and the vast majority of poverty-stricken wageslaves and debt slaves. The middle class no longer exists in the USA (or anywhere for that matter TBH). But hey, the youth of today have Facebook, Youtube, PlayStation, Nintendo, etc, so they can remain “immersed” in virtual reality software…until finally, the electrical grid permanently goes out, collapse of industrial civilization happens, etc. People absolutely hate me whenever I point to them the ugly reality of the world…when I tell people that “industrial civilization is irredemably corrupt, unfair, and unsustainable, and that humans will probably go extinct within the not-too-distant future”…people absolutely hate me from telling them this reality.
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I just looked up some pictures of various cities in the world on Google images…like Tokyo, New York City, Shanghai, Bombay, and Toronto…and I noticed something that those cities all have in common…an absolutely enormous human population. It is just unreal how many people are living in those cities. Imagine several hundreds of cities around the world, each with well over 1 million people. Many of those mega-cities, now, with over 10 million people each. And countless, thousands of smaller cities with 100,000 to 999,999 people, in each of those “small” cities. And it isn’t too surprising that there is now 8,000,000,000 people on this planet in 2022. I also own several maps of the world. And I looked at the USA on a map…and holy shit, there are a fuckton of people in the USA, too. The USA is absolutely jammed packed with enormous, overpopulated cities from coast to coast. And they apparently don’t think that there is an overpopulation problem here in the USA. Yep, too many goddamn Americans, too. Too many USA citizens, too. USA might have “only” 1/3 of China and India’s population, but make no mistake, there are too many people in the USA. Not just too many affluent “overconsumers”…just too many people in general. And the same applies to literally every country in the world…too many humans everywhere.
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I also agree that there will be no humans around by the end of the century and probably no humans around after 2050. But I disagree that the demise of humans on planet earth was inevitable. This comming now unstopable event could have been averted. It would have taken a massive shift in attitudes. It would have been a massive undertaking. But a comfortable sustainable future for billions of people could have been achieved. Could it have been achieved for 8 billion. I do not know. But I think it is probable that it could have been achieved for 6 billion and I am sure it could have been achieved for 4 billion. An overshoot could have been handled by people having less than comfortable lives and sharing hardship until such time as the population decreased due to a low birth rate. But it would have required a ideology of eco socialism to achieve these results.
The way that humans do agriculture, the transporation of goods, waste management, the design of housing and cities, would have all had to have been overhauled to make them low energy use. Agriculture would have to have been largely human powered emphasising the production of fruits, nuts and vegitables, poultry, small mamals, and fish. Moving food to local markets would have to have been done mostly by bicycle.
Cities would have to have been designed to be very compact. Building materials would have to emphaised bamboo. If bamboo needed to be transported long distances in large quantities it would have to have gone the greatest distance possible by boat. Electric powered trains could have been used and powered by solar power in critical areas. Hemp and Flax and Jute would have to have been used to substitute for Cotton.
Waste management would have had to emphasized those, crap I forget the word and i do not have all night to remember it, Oh ja compost piles.
All of the technical details for success were figured out by Feral Scholars on the Feral Scholar website,early in the 21st century.
This site is no longer available on the internet. It is quite a tragic loss for humanity.
But to have transformed the world in this way would have required a real carbon budget. If the world had any carbon budget left by 2010 it was small. By 2015 it was almost surely non existant except in the minds of those still in denial about who deep in to the climate crisis we already were.
Those who are to blame, or to thank if you think the end of humanity is a wonderful development, are first off those who kept playing Top Gun and James Bond and Navy Seal or Army Ranger long after such shenanigans were appropriate which was after 1991. Even more to blame are those who maintained the systems to hire people to play Top Gun and James Bond and Navy Seal long after such behavior was inapporpriate. Rather than employing them to do something useful.
This is so blasted obvious I wonder if those people at that level of society are actually sentient beings. It is true that I failed to get my message out to those that needed to hear it. But it is also true that they should have been able to figure these things out on their own without needing to hear it from me.
I am not talking about the taxi drivers or the cashiers or the janitors of the world. I am talking about those people who have jobs in which they are paid to think not to stink.
How many people on the stage can actually hear with their eyes?
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Yes, the living arrangements of industrial civilization is incredibly wasteful and destructive, and you gotta blame the profit motive and the infinite-growth economic paradigm for that. Theoretically, Homo Sapiens could have persisted on this planet for several extra centuries (at least), but the profit motive of global capitalism completely destroyed that. Now, we face NTHE…thanks to the greed and unsustainability of our economic system. But you got to realize that this was, in many ways inevitable, too, since population overshoot is kinda inevitable. We could have had a sustainable world…if only, the psychopathic elites didn’t take over and control the entire world. But unfortunately, that isn’t the case, and now we get NTHE. But hey, the “good” news is that psychopathic elites (who got us into this mess in the first place) aren’t getting out of this alive, too. So, I guess you reap what you sow. The elites are most certainly not gonna survive the end of human civilization, which is probably why they continue BAU. Because they know they aren’t getting out of this alive, so why bother changing the status quo?
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Those who work at orthodox newspaper and tv and radio news also deserve special recognition for thier special and important role in leading to NTHE, maverick media institutions excepted. The internet was once a glimmer of hope but the truth ended up getting so diluted by bs that the internet only ended up factionalizing society.
We can then drop down to the lawyers, the clergy, and economists (overwhelmingly) who maintained the theoretical foundations of the system. A special point out to those quiet accountants whose role goes almost unnoticed.
Because there will be no positive outcome for even the wealthiest or the most powerful I myself have to wonder if these people are even sentient beings, or just mimicing such a condition.
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As for as for your above scenario of a sustainable world using renewable energy and an eco socialist government, it would have only been possible if the global human population was a mere 500 million to 1 billion people. At above 2 billion people or more, it becomes impossible to support the global human population without extensive use of fossil fuels. Even if we didn’t have a capitalist economy (and rather with a socialist one instead), with a human population of over 2 billion people, the extensive use of fossil fuels and extensive ecological damage would have been inevitable. At 6 or 8 billion people, even with a socialist socio-economic system, we couldn’t support so many people without fossil fuel-based supply chains, shipping food across the world, 24/7. Even with a socialist economy, it would have been literally impossible to support 6 or 8 billion people without extensive use of fossil fuels. The only advantage socialism might have (over say capitalism) is that it might be possible to equally distribute the world’s natural resources and wealth amongst the human population. But at 6 or 8 billion people, even egalitarian economic systems (like socialism) fail because the human population is way too large to be sustainable in the long-term.
The other advantage to socialism is that, in long term, the human overpopulation problem might “only” result in a mass die-off with a small percentage of survivors left after civilization collapses. Whereas with capitalism, massive global overpopulation will result in a mass die off of human population that is so severe that we inevitably end up with human extinction. Overpopulation with socialism results with mass-Malthusian die-off with a couple of million of human survivors. Overpopulation with capitalism results with mass-Malthusian die off with literal human extinction as an inevitable result.
Socialism might result in a few human survivors living off of the left overs of an overpopulated industrial civilization because there might be some social cooperation allowing for a few survivors to live off of sustienence agricture affer the population crash. With capitalism as the status quo, we inevitably get human extinction as a result of severe overpopulation. Because the individualistic nature of capitalism gurantees it will be an “every man for himself” strategy when SHTF happens. Resulting in the inevitable extinction of mankind after civilization ends.
Just my two cent.
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I agree that the earth has a carrying capacity. I do not agree that we can say with very much percsion what it is. But clearly the more comfortably people want to live the lower that capacity would be.
I have read that if you are maintaining your weight, say between 60 anf 80 kilos on 3000 calories a day and then you reduce your intake to 2000 calories consistently you will not starve to death. You will rapidly lose some wieght then your wieght will level off and your body will adjust to the new reality just like one becomes aclimatized to new tempratures.
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It is pretty obvious that there is no way that we can sustain 8,000,000,000 people without fossil fuels. I don’t deny that certain priveleged people consume way too much resources, while others don’t have enough money to afford even basic necessities. I don’t deny that our capitalist economic system is extremely unsustainable, unfair and unequal. But even if the Earth’s resources were fairly/equally allocated and there was no consumerism/overconsumption by a priveleged few (with a true socialist economy), with 8,000,000,000 on the planet, sustainability rapidly becomes impossible. Maybe a socialist economy is sustainable with 500 million to 1 billion people. But with 8 billion people on the planet, population overshoot and die off would have been inevitable, even with socialism.
Of course, socialism is a pipe dream because thousands of years of hierarchical, caste-based civilizations make it impossible to implement. Socialism doesn’t seem possible as long as human civilization is present. And contrary to popular belief, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba and China were/are not socialist countries! Their governments may pretend to be “communists”, but they have capitalist economies, too. Privately-owned businesses/corporations (operated under the profit motive) dominate all countries even in so-called “socialist” countries. Those so-called “socialist” countries are actually state capitalist countries. The only difference between state capitalism and laissez-faire capitalism is that the former has more government intervention/regulation in the economic activities of profit-seeking activities of corporations than the latter. The average moron thinks that government-owned businesses means “socialism”…it does not. Even if a business is run by the state, it is still capitalism because the means of production are privitized and operated under the profit motive. Under a hierarchical corporation system. True socialist economies don’t exist anywhere on this planet.
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Maybe socialism is the only thing that might save the human species from extinction? But it is unlikely it will be implemented to save us. So it seems like NTHE might be inevitable.
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Yes it is to late for any kind of eco socialism to save us now. What ever the carrying capacity of the planet was in 1990 by 2090 it is likely to be ZER0.
Anyways between the number 1 billion and 8 billion is 7 billion other potential outcomes. Although we do not know what the carrying capacity of the earth would have been if it had been managed properly the more important fact is that it had one. And if legitimate leadership knew that it had one such leadeship would not want to get to close to finding out what was (is). Therefor proper legitimate leadership would have enacted policies to prevent population growth. The western world is now full of dumbshits crying about the dangers of falling birthrates leading to an aging population.
My take on this term socialism is that it could properly take 3 potential forms. The least radical would be the Swedish Model. That is a mixed but mostily privately run economy that is highly regulated, to include progressive taxation, to prevent the corossive effects of a laize faire economy. The second potential form could have been the Cuban Modle. A Command Economy in which decisions are made top down. I see the idea that a democratic socialist economy could be realized as romantic bullshit. Refer to my explinations of democracy in the form of one person one vote for an explination of why democratic socialism is completely untenable. A third form, and this would have been the most radical, is Parecon. It has never been tried before. Oh and by the way this would be a type of democratic socialism but much different that what most people think of as a political party based democratic socialism. But since it has not yet been explicitly tried it has no track record. Could Parecon work. Maybe, I have some doubts about whether it is flexible enough to quickly change in response to changing circumatances. But the general idea seems intriguing.
Even though Parecon has not been explictly tried I think that it bears some reseblance to the European Guild economy of the middle ages. Of course in the case of Parecon the production “guilds” would be balanced off by consumer unions. OK it is a democractic system and it might have worked. But the idea that a representive democratic system can work in which people elect someone to represent them at higher levels of government is completely untenable. And many of the reasons that are trotted out to support the idea of represtentive democracy are absurd. One obvious absurdity is that the winner has a mandate to rule.
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Consumer capitalism destroyed any chance of any sustainable future. And it depends on never-ending human population growth and endless growth in resource consumption. It much too late for any sustainable future. And the carrying capacity is already rapidly being reduced down to zero people. Especially with BAU being continued into the future. The turning point was probably the late 1990s and early 2000s where we might had a slight chance of saving ourselves. Now, it much too late.
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There is no debate about overpopulation. There is obviously too many people on the planet. Not just too many “overconsumers” aka relatively affluent people, but too many people in general. Fossil fuels have temporarily allowed human overpopulation to extend itself for a few extra decades, but this will no longer be possible in the relatively near future. The fact that literally aspect of civilization depends on importing resources from around the globe (using copious amounts of fossil fuel energy, of course) just shows how unsustainable industrial civilization truly is. Advanced technologies like computers, automobiles and toasters cannot be manufactured without fossil fuels, mining and globalization/global supply chains.
Most importantly, the global food production/distribution system is completely dependent on fossil fuels, mining, and globalization/global supply chains. Literally, nothing you eat is grown or manufactured with local resources–let alone sustainably. Most countries in the world are net food importers i.e. they import more food than they export. All of the high population density countries–like China, India, Japan, Bangladesh and Germany–are completely dependent on buying food from other countries. Because those countries have way too many people and nowhere enough arable land and resources to feed their own population. Only a handful of countries export more food than they grow–like Canada, USA and Australia. The net food exporter countries have relatively small populations relative to arable land, so they can grow enough extra food to sell on the global marketplace.
Unfortunately, even those countries are rapidly running out of the ability to grow enough food to export (due to climate change, fresh water scarcity, top soil erosion, peak oil and depletion of other nonrenewable resources, etc). So the countries that rely on importing most of their food (i.e. most countries of the world) will soon be screwed when there isn’t enough food to buy on the global market place. Combined with the peak and decline of global oil extraction (and depletion of other essential nonrenewable resources), means that the global economy is starting to permanently contract. Economic shrinkage is now happening, and this is permanent. No more economic growth. Meaning massive unemployment, poverty, starvation and crime is skyrocketing. And the ability to purchase (let alone produce and distribute) enough food around the globe is rapidly decreasing.
Meaning, BAU will probably abruptly and catastrophically end within this decade or next decade. The 2010s was probably the last decade where BAU (or some semblance of it) could be maintained. This decade will be the major turning point. When collapse of civilization will likely happen. And it is likely BAU can longer be maintained during this or next decade.
Do you guys agree with what I said? I would like your input.
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To me it seems like a lot of guess work. But my guess is that the human population will not go in to rapid decline until after 2030 and maybe even not until 2040. But the ice is getting thinner and thinner both methaphorically and literally.
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It could be a sudden and abrupt collapse of global human population, and not a slow decline. But I don’t think there will be any significiant change from the status quo. And unlikely any new technological breakthroughs will appear.
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The seeds of humanity’s demise weren’t planted because of global capitalism and industrialization 200 to 500 years ago. They were planted long ago with the advent of agriculture 10,000 years ago. You reap what you sow. With 10,000 years of agriculture and 6,000 years of civilization, we are rapidly nearing the end of human civilization and the end of Homo Sapiens. Global capitalism and industrialization is merely the last era of human history…before the end of Homo Sapiens. And we get to chat on the Internet shortly before humanity reaches its expiry date. During a relatively brief period of history, a tiny minority of the human population gets to look back at the humanity’s past, and then it all ends.
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*
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2022/12/finite-feeding-frenzy/
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Hello David,
I did not see how to leave a reply on your own blog. I saw a blog comments policy. I read it. I saw a part that said recent comments. I did not see how one rights a comment.
This is the comment that I would have made on your blog.
You spoke of ending unsustainable practices. I would have certianly liked to have seen that. But changing the way that we humans do things often requires new resources, and time for at least re training of people and re construction of outdated infrastructure.
To change from old bad ways of doing things to new good ways of doing things and be finished in time so that the new ways can have a positive effect requires backwards planning. Because we humans have a leadership that has not been acting in good faith we have not even made the first steps to dealing with reaching a world that does not add to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.
If we started an emergency program tomorrow to achieve a carbon neutral world be 2050 we might make it. But that is not going to happen. Tommorrow in central Europe is only 38 minutes away. The 6 hours extra that the US east coast has will not be used to begin the process either.
But if we did start the process in the next 6 hours the Arctic is still going to be ice free in the next decade. And it will have more and more blue ocean each year until then. The tundra of Russia and Canada will thaw at ever increasing rates. Rising sea levels will mix with Trunda permafrost at ever increasing rates.
Rising sea levels and interior flooding will cause more and more infrastructure to be abandon and then rebuilt elsewhere as long as the resources are available to rebuild infrastructure. That means fewer resources available to make a transition to a new way of living, not to mention driving up CO2 levels even higher than they would otherwise be.
Hope for the future is clearly no longer justified. What is justified is rage and or glee. I myself am gleeful that 8 billion people are going to die soon. Everyone will be much better off after they are DEAD. I am enraged about how they are going to die. It will be a difficult transition for the vast majority. I am also enraged that those in charge defrauded those that looked to them for leadership and got away with it. They got away with it in the sense that they enjoyed a previlaged life and fooled a huge majortiy that will continue to be fooled until near the very end.
It is the leadership of the west, not Putin nor Xi, nor Khameni, nor Kim, nor Maduro, that bear a much bigger responsiblity for this failure. The west has always been on the strategic offensive thereby forcing those in the other camp to react to the behavior of the west. And the west was in a position in which it would have been very reasonable to end its aggressive behavior because it was in a much more secure position than its adversaries.
Furthermore the policies that the west have been pursuing have been totally unproductive from a point of view of actually solving any relevent problems of humanity.
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Hello Curt,
The essay is Tom Murphy’s, not mine. If you haven’t
seen his site before, there are some v.good essays there.
I might reply further later, but it is not physically possible to be
net-zero C. by 2050. For example, Tim Watkins calculates that
to replace current energy use with nuclear (leaving aside energy transformation difficulties ) would require the building
of two 1GW power stations every three days from now until 2050. And then by 2050, current uranium reserves would last a further two years.
Then there is Simon Michaux’s analysis of material requirements for the solar-wind infrastructure to replace the
current fossil energy supply.
400 million on the planet before we started the use of fossil fuels. The current population is the mother of all bubbles.
All the best to you.
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Thanks for clarifing that
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They (the elites) have been ramping up the censorship online during the past three or so years. Like I mentioned earlier, videos and articles about the unsustainability of the global economy and the collapse of industrial civilization used to be very easy to find online 5 to 10 years ago. Nowadays, this content is invisible online. It is now hidden from the view of the masses. I am assuming this increase in censorship implies that the corporate-state knows that the collapse of civilization and NTHE is near, so they fear that too many of the masses will wake up to the fact that our global economy is a giant scam/pyramid scheme, which is going to collapse anyways. So, this online censorship is necessary to keep BAU going for a bit longer, by giving people the illusion that it will never end (which it eventually will).
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Say let us do a scientific experiment. Let us look at the final scores of every NFL football game this weekend. If every game ends by a final score of 24 to 19 and there is at least one safety in every game then it should be obvious to anyone who reads this post that we live in a simulated universe, or at least on a simulated planet.
It is not possible to do an experiment that proves that we are not in a simulated universe because if those doing the simulation do not want us to know they will simply sabotage the results. But it is possible to do an experiment that would prove that we are in a simulated universe if those doing the simulation to not care if we find out.
I of course do not actually expect the final score of every game to be 24 to 19 with a safety in every game because if those running the simulation wanted us to know that we were in a simulation they probably would have told us by now.
But could anything so unusual or historic happen that it would make you actually wonder if something out of this world is going on or not? Science is just not about doing controlled experiments. Science is also about observation. Yes observations are subjective. But real scientists know that subjective observations are the first step of the scientific method.
If something really unusual did happen one possible explination would be that it was part of a human conspiracy and not a sign from some sentient beings in another dimension. Anyways even if I end up looking like a fool for suggesting such a hairbrained idea on the spur of the moment I really do not think that the orthodox scientific establishment can holds themselves our as paridigms of wisdom or virtue at this point.
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SETI has up until now not been able to pick up a radio transmission. Maybe we live in a base universe and there is no one out there. Maybe the radio waves that they have produced have not yet reached us. Maybe someone out there is not only producing radio waves they have the means and the motive for jamming our reception of these radio waves.
Maybe we live in a simulated universe and the happenings on other planets are not relevent to the simulation. If we do live in a simulated universe and those running the simulation wanted to communicate with us they would have a vast number of ways of doing that besides radio waves from deep in outerspace. Orothodox scientists would and will never explore such a possibilty.
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If this is a simulation,those in control have lost control of their subjects, unless stupidity & overpopulation was in the original plan.
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I imagine every simulation has to have an end point.
Real Scientist obviously do not know what kind of a simulation that we are stuck in, or its purpose. If it is done for research purposes so that those running the simulation can learn something that they do not already know then it would seem to me that they never had control over the test subjects in the first place.
If the simulation is done for mere entertainment if might be suffering from low ratings and has been canceled. We have no idea what those running the simulation find funnny. They may find sour stupidity a barrel of laughs.
Anyways the beginning of the experiment is only about 6 hours away. The tension is not building because only 3 or 4 people are aware of the 5 day experiment. I have done this experiment one other time. It produced no noticable results. But it could be that there has been a change in leadership since then. Of course I am not optomistic. I never am. 5 hours and 6 minutes to go.
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The funny part about this simulation is that those running it are just guinea pigs in a greater simulation.
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It is hallarious that a simulation could be part of an infinite regress like 2 mirrors placed in front of each other.
Once upon a time in a land far far way sentient beings developed a very fast computers. They used these computers to simulate different kinds of environments with different kinds living creatures to answer different questions. Sometimes these computers were even used in unauthorized simulations. And as the creatures in these simulations developed the computer technology to run their own simulations they began to do so and on and one it went.
It a song that goes on an on my friends……..
But one thing that is certianly not funny is that those running our simulation might not know that at least some us are actually sentient beings. They might assume that all signs of sentience are just mimiced by the carachters in their simulation.
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We are probably just a few years away from global, human-extinction level famine and societal collapse. I am 100% aware that industrial civilization is already rapidly losing the ability to grow and distribute sufficient amounts of food to its citizens. Global, NTHE-inducing famine and societal collapse is inevitable at this point. It will probably happen much sooner than (almost) anyone could have imagined or have predicted.
Maybe, not in 2026, but (almost) certainly before 2040. Once the global supply chains and electrical grids permanently fail, it is GAME OVER for industrial civilization and Homo Sapiens. It will mean the permanent end of the global food and fresh water supply. Meaning, most likely, NTHE will happen very abruptly and catastrophically. It won’t be a slow and gradual decline of global human population into 2100. It will probably mean a rather sudden and catastrophic reduction of global human population. It certainly won’t be pretty.
8 billion plus humans perishing within a span of several years will be an unimaginably brutal and ugly affair. And when NTHE does finally become undeniable to even the most clueless people, we wouldn’t have the privelege of talking about it online…when our fossil-fuel burning global supply chains and electrical grid permanently collapse, it means no Internet…of course, I can’t imagine what your reaction would be when that day finally arrives. Maybe, you would be saying to the world: “I told you so.”
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Yes the world is comming to an end and it will be brutal. But did you lose the opportunity to see lasts nights game. It was not over until the very end. I almost stopped watching the rerun of the game that I was watching at the end of the 3rd quarter. But I decided well lets see if there is a safety in the game. I was well rewarded due to my patients. The subplot of Baker Mayfield playing at QB made the ending even more dramatic.
But the expertiment is far from over. At this point it appears that it has already failed because the final score was not 23 to 19.
But maybe that is not what we should be seeing. OK there may be nothing to see. Even if we are in a simulation those running the simulation may not be able to manipulate the 14 to 16 NFL games that occur on a regular season weekend. Or, they maybe could but won’t manipulate it because it is not important enough to do. On the other hand they could be manipulating games every weekend because there are big time monetary bets placed on the outcomes of the games in their dimension of the universe and those running the simulation are an organized crime syndicate. We humans just may be to stupid to detect the manipualtion.
But that has drifted a bit from our experiment because this experiment was called to see if those running the simulation are willing to respond to my call to show thier presents. Yes it is true I asked them to show their presents unambiguously. It seems that is not in the cards for this week. But maybe a more subtle sign will be given. Of course anything that is subtle will be open to denial.
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Yes I agree that the most likely scenario for human extinction would be one of a rapid downward spiral leading to the end of the simulaiton in only a few years of simulation time. But I think another scenario is plausible, that of a terrace down extinction, in which the population drops rapidly but then stablizes at a lower level for some period of time before more rapid drops and stablizations lead to the end.
I am not optimistic enough to think that during any of these stabalization periods which may last for a couple of decades but most likely for a period of years humanity will be able to prevent going over the next drop because by then the environment will be to badly damaged to turn itself around in time to make a difference to humans in this simulated dimension of the universe. There is perhaps a think chance that what we do here might be of help to those running the simulation.
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And the vast majority of people don’t even realize that we live in a fabricated reality…that will eventually come to end…a fabricated reality constructed with the energy from fossil fuels. It feels like the movie The Matrix. We (the doomers) are like those red-pilled people who understand that we live in a fossil fuel-powered fabricated reality…which will eventually end.
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Maybe we aren’t living in a simulation but following our DNA to overpopulate & demand more. Of course it’s no one’s fault. The denial gene prevents the acceptance of responsibility.
The Universe doesn’t have a vaccine for this pandemic.
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Well, the Matrix is an analogy to the fact that relatively few people realize that we live in an unsustainable civilization constructed from fossil fuel energy. Of course, if you get the root of the problem, you would realize this following quote from Derrick Jensen is true: ” civilization cannot, and can never be, made sustainable. This is especially true for industrial civilization”. Not only is industrial civilization unsustainable, but any form of human civilization is fundamentally unsustainable. Unfortunately, it is much, much too late to revert back a sustainable, pre-civilized lifestyle…too many people on this planet, our global population cannot be sustained without planet-destroying agriculture. Plus, due to capitalism and the privatization of the world’s natural resources, it would be impossible for anyone to survive without being able to earn money to buy food, water and shelter. In other words, 8 billion people are 100% dependent on this unsustainable and destructive system to survive. When civilization permanently ends in the relatively near future, humans will cease to exist on the planet.
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Business as usual has even filtered in to my dreams. A couple of nights ago I dreamed that i was watching a commercial on TV. The commercial was touting a Jagaur Van. The Van was showed driving over rough terrain in the mountains where usually only a SUV like a Jeep or Landrover would drive. Inside the van was a man and a woman and two kids about 10 years old and a Border Collie. The commercial showed this ban which looked alot like a Toyota Van from the 1990s, even though it was a Jaguar make, pull up to this sheer rock cliff. Then the family got out and started rock climbing while the dog took off and chased rams.
This dream was followed by 2 more plausible dreams. Did I have a glimpse outside of our simulation?
Well I can say this about my dreams they r more realistic and accurate than the news reporting that we are subject to about what is going on in the world from the major reporting sources.
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Given that people are now planning on extracting the remaining resources in the oceans, it means that we are very, very desperate. Homo Sapiens is rapidly running out of resources and time. I would imagine that the unsustainability of industrial civilization is becoming increasingly obvious…especially considering that resource extraction from the oceans take much more energy than that on land. The low-hanging fruit of resource exploitation is now gone. Now, we must exploit the most dangerous and inaccessible deposits of fossil fuels and other natural resources.
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Having a handful of millions of Homo Sapiens on the planet in the Stone Age was already an ecological disaster in the making. Having several hundred million people on the planet in the Middle Ages caused catastrophic ecological damage around the world. Having 8 billion humans in 2022 is quickly turning this planet into a barren, lifeless wasteland. Unfortunately, humanity’s track record throughout its entire history was/is an ecological disaster. Our destructiveness on the planet’s ecosystems only continued to grow as we developed new technologies to gain access to more energy and resources. The invention of agriculture 10,000 years ago was the beginning of the end for most higher life forms on this planet. At this late stage in the game, it is futile to save the remaining species on this planet. Human overpopulation is, by far, the number one cause of the destruction of ecosystems and extinction of wild life. The leading destroyer of nature is not capitalism. Overpopulation is the leading cause of ecological destruction. Yes, relatively, affluent people consume more resources per capita than poor people, but to put the blame of ecological destruction on affluent, “overconsumers” rather than overpopulation is rather misleading. The “third world” countries may have less per capita consumption of resources than the “developed” world. But developing countries engage in all sorts of ecologically destructive activities to sustain their overpopulated citizens. Maybe humans are just a fundamentally unsustainable species that is destined to cause its own extinction?
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I used to think that the best argument for abortion was Cain & Able. It’s not a problem for me to wrong for years. The best argument for abortion is Adam & Eve. Since that didn’t happen maybe the best argument,now,is: Look in a mirror!
I’ll be appearing at the Days Inn lounge this week.
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Many people put the blame of ecological destruction on the relatively affluent and overpriveleged people, who are consuming way too much stuff. But this is only half true. Sure, it is true that most of the world’s natural resources are being consumed by the top 10% to 20% of income earners around the world. But, this ignores the fact that lower-tech, “third world” countries (like Africa and India) also engage in all sorts of ecologically destructive activities. Like bush meat consumption, the poaching of wild life, mining of metals, deforestation for palm oil, coal mining, etc to sustain their economies. Even if we had an alternative socio-economic system to capitalism, it would be impossible to sustain 8 billion people without catastrophic ecological damage. Even if the wealth and access to natural resources was more equitable amongst the world population, with 8 billion people on this planet, we would still have catastrophic damage to just sustain the basic necessities of the global population. Do you agree with my assessment?
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Really what “hope” do we really have at this point? The only hope is that the corporate-state doesn’t remove what little freedom of speech we still have before NTHE happens. But like I already mentioned, freedom of speech is already rapidly being removed online because the corporations want to increase their power and control over the masses as NTHE draws nearer. As NTHE comes closer, the corporations want to increase the level of BS and brainwashing to prevent any of the masses from realizing the truth. As NTHE draws nearer, it is absolutely essential for the corporations to give the masses the illusion that BAU can continue forever…so they must censor any legitimate opposition to the status quo. Especially anyone telling the truth about humanity’s imminent and inevitable extinction. If NTHE is just a hoax, then why do the elites censor this information online? If it was a hoax, the elites could easily debunk it with evidence. But they cannot debunk it, so they pretend that it isn’t real…by censoring this reality from the masses.
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For the past 20 years the only thing that i have asked the simulation directors or moderators to give me for Christmas was world leaders, especially in the USA and Europe, who were actually trying to solve the world’s problems rather than just faking it.
But the simulation management never supported me. So why should I now support them. If anyone on earth can now bring this simulation to a crashing halt they now have my full support.
Bringing the simulation to an end, and along with it the benifits accured by those who profit from the simulation would a final act of rebellion.
I have considered the possibilty that our conduct is possibly being studied by beings in another dimension to help them avoid our mistakes. But this simulation has run long enough to determine the obvious answer to avoiding extinction is proper leadership.
Humanity does not have a prayer of getting that. Without it the simulation that we are stuck in should be shut down. A fast death is usually better than a slow one.
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Let’s be honest, there still might be a handful of people that could potentially survive without industrial civilization in 2022 and onwards. But I reckon that number is no more than 500 or 1,000 people on this entire planet in 2022. (Almost) everyone will quickly die soon after industrial civilization collapses for good. Even if a handful of people survive the end of human civilization, there is no chance anyone could ever rebuild human civilization–let alone preserve civilization’s cultural traditions. Perhaps within as little as 20 to 30 years from now, industrial civilization would be nothing but abandoned cities with a whole bunch of human corpses and skeletons lying around? One thing is for certain, anyone, who is currently dependent on industrial civilization for survival in 2022, (which is literally at least 99.99% of the global human population) would quickly perish when civilization ends for good. Including all of us here on this site, our friends, family, neighbours, etc. The only people that might survive civilization’s collapse is literally only one or two tribes on this entire planet…the handful of people that still might not be dependent on the technology of industrial civilization. It is literally GAME OVER for everyone else…especially those who still depend on industrial civilization…which is basically, literally, everyone in the developing and developed countries of the world.
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We should all go out together. No one gets left behind.
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Am I the only person on Earth who is insane enough to actually want NTHE to happen? I actually hope that NTHE does happen. It seems like most people, who know that it is going to happen, don’t actually want it to happen. I do want to it to happen. The majority of people, who know about the reality of NTHE, surprisingly, don’t want it to happen. Do you actually wish that the insanity of industrial civilization doesn’t ever end? I hope it does end. This civilization is irredemably corrupt and unsustainable, so why would anyone want it to continue forever? I hope it does end.
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Am I the most batshit insane doomer on the Internet and entire world? Or is there someone more crazy than me? I would like to know your answer to that question.
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That kinds of depends upon how one defines NTHE. For the past 20 -25 years I have wanted human civilization to end over a period of a century or two due to a low birth rate. But that option has now been closed down. I now favor any method that will gets things over as fast as possible.
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If you can get this species to the edge I’ll help you push it off the cliff. I probably need to jump but not without taking some with me because we all deserve it.
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Just allowing BAU to continue for a few more years, and NTHE is guranteed to happen. It is much too late to save Homo Sapiens at this point. Our infinite-growth, pyramid scheme global economy will eventually collapse for good…and then SHTF will really happen. Really, there is nothing that can be done to save Homo Sapiens at this point…we are going to go extinct in the relatively near future, and all we can do is pretend that NTHE won’t happen. Unfortunately, it is obvious that it will happen.
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I had to look up BAU, but at my age it’s BAU.
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BAU means Business As Usual. Even if there is an alternative to capitalism aka BAU, it is too late for anything to save us at this point because the Earth is too overpopulated, we are too dependent on fossil fuels/industrial civilization, irreversible climate feedback loops/tipping points have already been triggered, the 6th mass extinction is already irreversible at this point, etc.
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Doomers should be wearing T-shirts that say, “Too Late”.
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I can assure you that things will only continue to deteriorate into the future…nobody knows if 2023 will be the year when SHTF does finally happen. Regardless, 2023 will be even worse than 2022, just like every subsequent prior year has gotten progressively worse. 2023 is less than 3 weeks away. What plans do you have for 2023? Do you think 2023 will be better than 2022? I know that literally everyday that passes is one closer to the inevitable collapse of industrial civilization.
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Everyday that passes is literally one day closer to the inevitable collapse of industrial civilization, don’t you agree?
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I feel the same.
I’m waiting for the time that monkey minds have to stop flinging shit, in the realization that things are getting really bad & all their attention to small details,(politics, economics & religion) compared to their habitat, is what has lead them to this point.
They’ve taken the phrase “Go Fuck Yourself!” literally.
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For those that can’t,how about a little light reading. 😉
http://historyguide.org/intellect/gibbon_decline.html
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On a serious note, global famine means higher food prices, which will have the largest impact on the world’s poor. At first. As global food production continues to decline, food will grow more expensive, meaning the circle of priveleged consumers who can afford an adequate supply of food will continue to decrease. Global famine has already begun. The world’s poor are already being pushed off the cliff to starvation. The only reason global famine could still be denied right now is because there are still priveleged-enough people who can still afford an adequate food supply. When there isn’t enough food for even the relatively priveleged, rich people, then I wonder what the reaction would be like? Probably catastrophic social strife and complete societal collapse. Like mass rioting and looting on a scale never before seen. As the depletion of nonrenewable resources, environmental degradation and abrupt climate change continue to push us into the brink of civilization-destroying, global famine, there will one day be a day when food literally “disappears” from supermarkets, water stops flowing out of the municipal taps, the gas stations run out of gas, the electrical grid permanently fails, the fossil fuel-powered supply chains stop moving, etc. I think that day will arrive in the not-too-distant future.
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As a side note, nuclear fusion energy is probably never gonna happen. And even if it were possible, it would just delay the collapse of civilization by a few years at best…and it might have even more catastrophic side-effects than fossil fuels. Can you imagine what kind of destruction will happen if several billion, retarded human apes have access to an energy source even more powerful than fossil fuels? We are already causing our own extinction with access to cheap and abundant energy from fossil fuels. If we could harnass fusion energy, humans will surely do nothing good with it. We will probably cause our extinction with nuclear fusion energy (if it is possible)…don’t ever expect the rapacious human ape to use its technology in any sustainable or rational manner. Luckily, fusion energy will probably never come. And even if it was possible, it wouldn’t save humans from extinction.
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That was a very good comment. There was a time not so long ago when i thought, if we can hold out until nuclear fussion energy is developed perhaps humanity can become extinct through a low birth rate.
That was before I understood that the world is irredemibly corrupt. Now I understand that even if it could become a reality it will not be used as a force for good in the world.
And that final nail in the coffin causes a problem for this site devoted to reporting the collapse of industrial society. How many times can people say that NTHE is around the corner possibly only years away, probably less than 2 decades away, and almost certianly in this century, without repeating themselves over and over. Such people will sound like a record that is stuck in a groove.
Perhaps some comments on events that are happening shortly before NTHE should be considered?? I would like to make one in the following comment.
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Fusion energy (if it were possible) could actually make things much, much worse. It would just extend human population overshoot even further, by perhaps delaying the collapse of civilization by a few extra years, until the depletion of other nonrenewable resources and environmental degradation causes the collapse of civilization. But by all rational evidence, the chances of fusion energy ever becoming a reality are very, very slim. It is (most) likely that fossil fuels will be the final energy bonzana that human exploit before the collapse of civilization. The idea of an unlimited energy source to continue the existence of industrial civilization would be the worst thing imaginable. Perhaps the exhaustion of an abundant but finite and nonrenewable energy source i.e. fossil fuels would be the best thing that could happen for industrial civilization? Who in their right mind would actually want industrial civilization to never end? It would be a blessing for industrial civilization to finally end for good because consumer capitalism can never be made sustainable. Even if the end result is NTHE, that would be a better alternative than the status quo.
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Perhaps you are aware of this already, but near the end of WW2 Nazi propoganda encouraged the Germans to fight hard against those who were trying to bring an end to the Nazi regime. It proclaimed that wonder weapons were being developed that would change what appeared to be the comming certian defeat of the Nazi regime.
We should not be surprised that such tactics get repeated upon the residents of the western world.
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Humans have already destroyed the last remaining remnants of the natural world with fossil fuel energy. If fusion energy were possible, it will just allow humans to extract whatever resources are left on this planet…until nothing is left to extract, and humans cease to exist. But it seems like there is still enough fossil fuel energy to power industrial civilization for extracting what little is left of this planet. I would imagine that, even as fossil fuel extraction continues to decline into the future (due to depletion of fossil fuels) , industrial civilization will completely destroy what little is left of the natural world. Humans will make sure that there is literally nothing left of the natural world before we finally go extinct. It is already GAME OVER for the biosphere. Now, we attempt to destroy what little is left of nature before Homo Sapiens finally go extinct. And humans will continue to extract the remaining fossil fuel deposits…because (we) rational people all know that there is no viable alternative to FFs.
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I want to complain here about Chinese military incompetence.
This comment does not address whether Chinese economic or politcal policies. That is a related but seperate issue.
It should be obvious to every independent observer of world events that after the end of the cold war the western nations led by the United States have been engaged in a policy of gaining domination over China, Russia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba, and Palestine. Now I suspect that the leadership of those nations have worked together in the past to prevent that from happening. I have no direct evidence for this, except for Russia and Syria, but if these nations have not worked together they were completely incompetent.
Now assuming that they have worked together China’s current strategy is completely stupid. China has been threatening to take back Taiwan. But even if it could take back the island, at a reasonable costs, which would seem unlikely, it would only be liberating a waste land. (Of course with NTHE around the corner why bother?) If the Chinese wish to support the heroic Russian resistence fighters it makes no sense to challenge US Naval Strength even near China’s shores where home field advantage would help them a bit.
It would make a lot more sense to move Chinese Divisions in to Europe invade NATO countries. Or to at least help bring the war to NATO and EU countries for encouraging the Ukrainian government to go to war against Russia. I live in the EU and I can see very clearly, that we are the guilty ones in this conflict. I had hoped along with Gerhard Schroeder that Germany would form close ties with Russia in the future and even leave the NATO alliance as that is what was clearly in the interests of the German people until the NTHE arrives. I am an American who worked hard for Russia and I make no appoligies for it, I am proud of it. Yes it is embarrassing as hell that the Russians ad Chinese appear to be as stupid as hell. This appearance may be a false impression caused by an overwhelming western technological supremacy. But it is far better to suffer and die on the side of stupidity than win and prosper on the side of bad faith and treachory. They often say in America, you only have one life make the best of it. But this life will come to an end even if there is no NTHE and nothing that you made of of your life will remain for you or be remembered by you. Waging a war of aggression even by sureptitious means is the worst crime that there is. Far Far worse than even treason.
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Regardless of one’s value system, Baboon Brains are very proficient at “Waging a war…”. I do enjoy watching how technology has made it easy for one, arm dragging primate, to kill many in a few moments. Our best improving weapon over the ages could be called a bomb, of overpopulation.
If WW4 is fought with sticks & stones, that will be the end of the weapon trade. We’ve got weapons everywhere. 😉 If we returned to public stoning for crimes would that be a deterrent?
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And humans are also very good at denying the reality that civilization will eventually end…especially when its end is already on the horizon. I would imagine that our denial will only continue to grow…until it does finally end for good. The addiction of hopium…an addiction that cannot be cured until people see that day finally happen.
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Well, the collapse of industrial civilization is vastly different from literally any other event in human history. Industrial civilization will most certainly be the final and last human civilization on this planet. This is not like the “collapse” of the Roman Empire, whereby a new civilization emerged from the ashes of Rome. Many people falsely believe that there will be a new civilization emerging after industrial civilization ends. Nope, it is GAME OVER for civilization and Homo Sapiens. We will soon exhaust and deplete all of the nonrenewable resources necessary for the existence of any humans on this planet–let alone the continuation of any future human civilizations. This time, it is for real; that is NTHE is for real. No, we are not reverting back to the Stone Age. The following article summarizes the inevitable end of human civilization:
http://web.archive.org/web/20220524111716/https://dieoff.com/page137.htm
The following paragraph sums up what will be the most likely end result of industrial civilization:
“”Or it may prove impossible for even a few survivors to subsist on the meager resources left in civilization’s wake. The children of the highly technological society into which more and more of the world’s peoples are being drawn will not know how to support themselves by hunting and gathering or by simple agriculture. In addition, the wealth of wild animals that once sustained hunting societies will be gone, and topsoil that has been spoiled by tractors will yield poorly to the hoe. A species that has come to depend on complex technologies to mediate its relationship with the environment may not long survive their loss.””
Nope. We aren’t reverting back to the Stone Age. We will probably see the day when the last human to ever walk the Earth finally perishes…and within a few short decades from now.
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There is a GOOD reason why smartphones, laptops, automobiles and other advanced modern technologies didn’t exist in any civilizations prior to industrial civilization. Those more-primitive civilizations did not have access to cheap and abundant energy from fossil fuels. Nor did they have access to the plethora of other natural resources necessary for the mass-manufacturing of advanced, modern technology. The expansion of European colonialism, and the conquest of the entire world by European super-powers is what made the Industrial Revolution and industrial civilization possible in the first place. In other words, the conquest and plundering of the ENTIRE planet is what made industrial civilization possible. Without the wholescale genocide of indigenious cultures and ecocide of the natural world, industrial civilization wouldn’t exist in the first place. It was this genocide and ecocide that made it possible to gain access to the natural resources that are necessary for building industrial civilization in the first place.
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Don’t worry. Capitalism will eventually end for good. But it won’t end until the last human on Earth finally dies. Whether the last human on Earth to perish is one of the capitalist, ruling class elites or one of the commoners is still unknown. End of capitalism = end of human civilization = near term human extinction.
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The only “advice” that I can give to “young” people (aka anyone under the age of 40 years old) is absolutely avoid getting into debt because global economic contraction will make it impossible to pay off any of your debts. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people are doing the worst thing imaginable…which is burrowing money to get into debt. These people will soon be in for a rude awakening when it becomes impossible to pay off their finanical debts. Our global economy requires people to get into debt to buy stuff they don’t really need…of course, this is gonna soon fail when economic growth is no longer possible. Since the global economy is already starting to permanently contract (due to peak oil), anyone with finanical debt will quickly lose the ability to pay it off.
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When people are killing one another for a loaf of bread money will be worthless. In so far as any institutions of civilization function at that point worthless money translates as hyperinflation. Hyperinflation erases all past debts. Therefore going in to debt if you are young enough to earn a wage is likely to be at this point in time a good strategy. With the currency that you have now you can buy assets that in the (near?) future will cost much much more than they do now, not only in relative monetary terms but in absolute Monetary terms. Today a person has to work 40 hours for a bicycle once supply chains break down it could easily be 120 hours for a bicycle until such time that no more can be produced. To top that off interest rates are lower on loans today than they will be tommorrow.
And due to massive government spending across the globe to pay people who lost work due to corona or war large amounts of currency have been injected in to the economies to prevent a down turn. Demand has not slackened but the ability to meet global economic demand has. Trouble lies just ahead. One notices all kinds a shortages already. Shortages always blamed on supply bottle necks.
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Of course, we will soon run out of the ability to feed our global human population…this is inevitable, and there is no techno”fix” to this problem. There is nothing that can prevent global famine from happening. We probably won’t reach 9,000,000,000 people by 2040. Global human population would crash long before 2040. Sorry, but there is literally nothing that can replace fossil fuels (and the plethora of other nonrenewable resources that humans are rapidly depleting). I wouldn’t be surprised that around 80% to 90% of the global human population perishes by 2030. Even if we could reach 9 billion people by 2040, it wouldn’t make the slightest difference in the grand scheme of things because the Malthusian, mass die off of global human population is inevitable. The only thing we can do is pretend that human-extinction level global famine wouldn’t ever happen, but any rational person knows that it is inevitable.
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It isn’t just fossil fuels that are rapidly being depleted to nothing…it is almost every other finite and nonrenewable resource that it is being rapidly depleted to the point of being completely gone in the relatively near future. Like iron, copper, aluminium, gold, silver, magnesium, and zinc. And the shortage of just one or two of these resources could easily lead to the collapse of civilization…let alone almost every, conceivable resource being rapidly depleted to nothing. Just the lack of one or two metals means modern microchips, computers and digital computing devices can no longer be manufactured…let alone the other 20 to 30 different metals required to make computers. Yet, the elites controlling industrial civilization plan on increasing the consumption of finite and nonrenewable resources; pretending that the game will never end. TBH, I wouldn’t be surprised that, if the elites are not complete morons, they would be intentionally reducing the manufacturing of goods and foods…to temporarily extend the life expectancy of industrial civilization. Of course, reducing the amount of resource extraction and food/goods being produced will increase the price of the foods and goods. Especially food. Forgot about the other stuff. Like smartphones, TVs, computers and automobiles. Those are not necessities Not surprisingly, you can’t live without food (not shit). I think the increase in food prices during the COVID-19 pandemic is not because of “inflation” or clandestein conspiracy..it is simply because food production can no longer keep up with human population growth. In fact, food production is likely already starting to decrease…yet 200,000 plus hungry mouths are added onto this planet, literally every 24 hours. And given that global industrial agriculture is completely dependent on fossil fuels (and other finite, nonrenewable resources, which are also being rapidly depleted), is it any surprise that civilization-ending, global famine is literally right on the horizon?
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“Hyperinflation” won’t erase debt. In fact, this so-called “inflation” is just price gouging and maintaining/increasing the bottom line of businesses and corporations (as someone mentioned in this thread a few months ago) As food production is unable to keep up with human population growth, the price of food will increase to compensate for the lower production of food…higher prices are necessary to maintain the bottom line of businesses. Especially when the production of a good (in this case, food) is decreasing yet the demand continues to increase. So-called “inflation” won’t get rid of finanical debt. It simply means that the price of certain, essential goods continue to increase…yet your income might barely increase at all. The increase in the price of goods (especially that of food) will vastly outpace any perceived increase in income. During the past three years of COVID-19, the price of most goods didn’t increase at all…the price of computers, cars and books didn’t increase at all. But the price of the most important industrial product, food, did skyrocket. Yet, incomes didn’t really increase at all. The increased price of food, combined with stagnant incomes, means paying off finanical debts becomes even more difficult. Peoples’ incomes doesn’t increase, yet the cost of living increased by a huge margin (especially the price of food)…meaning that their ability to pay off debts decreases because of so-called “inflation”.
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Yes it is true when we let unexamined “self evident” assumptions, that are actually incorrect, in to our thinking these assumptions can cause us to come to dubious conclusions.
To make matters worse it rarely happens that we mere humans figure out what these incorrect assumptions are.
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Like I mentioned earlier, the scarcity of natural resources will directly cause inflation. I am pretty certain that the elites know everything that we know about overpopulation, peak oil, climate change, etc. They certainly know that that the Earth is rapidly running out of natural resources, and the collapse of civilization isn’t too far away. So perhaps to delay the inevitable and imminent collapse of civilization for a few extra years, the elites intentionally reduce the rate of resource extraction and also reduce the rate of production of food/goods. Of course, reducing the production of goods/food will increase the price of foods/goods. Thus causing inflation. And increasing the income of people will further increase the price of food/goods. The higher price of food/goods is due to the fact that these things are now being produced in lower volumes. The price must increase to maintain the bottom line/profit margin of businesses. And with no possible way to increase the income of the masses ( without triggering yet even more inflation), the higher price of food and other goods means the masses have a reduced ability to purchase stuff. Combined with the massive unemployment, poverty, starvation and crime caused by permanent economic contraction (which is already happening), is it no wonder that things are getting worse every subsequent year?
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There is alot of people talking about how the elites plan on exterminating the excess human population on this planet. Well, it is actually very easy to do. No need to round up people to exterminate them in concentration camps. Global famine (due to human population overshoot) will do the job. No “conspiracy” is needed to reduce human population. As global human population continues to increase while the resources necessary to feed that population continues to decrease in availability, the ability to produce and distribute adequate food supplies for the masses decreases. So the price of food will rise. And as the price of food rises, more and more people will be unable to afford adequate food supplies…so these people simply die of starvation. There is no need for a conspiracy to wipe out the “useless eaters”. Like Thomas Malthus mentioned over 200 years ago, the increase in human population will eventually outstrip the ability to produce enough food for the human population…hence the inevitability of a Malthusian-famine killing billions of people around the globe.
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Anthropogenic climate disruption (ACD) will certainly reduce global crop yields, and contribute to global famine. But ACD is just the tip of the ice berg of industrial civilizartion’s fatal problems. The two biggest problems being overpopulation and the depletion of nonrenewable resources. With 8,000,000,000 people on this planet rapidly depleting all of the essential, nonrenewable resources to completely nothing, we are pretty much screwed no matter we do at this point. Not just fossil fuels (i.e coal, petroleum, and natural gas), but literally every other conceivable, nonrenewable resource (from mineral/metallic ores like copper, tin, aluminium, iron and silver) and top soil. Not surprisingly, many of these nonrenewable resources are absolutely essential to producing and distributing food across the planet (like fossil fuels and artificial fertilizers made from nonrenewable, finite minerals–like phosphorous and potassium– mined from the Earth). Climate change will certainly reduce crop yields, but it is a “relatively” minor problem compared to the fact 8,000,000,000 people are rapidly depleting the very resources necessary for supporting human civilization. And I don’t want to get into the other enormous problems facing industrial civilization like environmental degradation/biodiversity loss, pollution, soil erosion, global warming, fresh water scarcity, resource wars and newly emerging viruses. Humanity and industrial civilization is rapidly running out of time. Yet, we pretend that BAU can continue forever…I would assume when collapse of industrial civilization does happen, the vast majority of people would be surprised because they are under the delusion that civilization will never end.
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The bottom line is this: literally, the only sustainable set of living arrangements for human beings is the Stone Age, hunting and gathering life style. Unfortunately, it is impossible to revert back to that life style since the ecosystems and resources necessary to sustain it (i.e wild animals and plants) has been completely destroyed by the past couple of thousands of years of human civilization (especially the destruction caused by the past 300 years of industrial civilization). Civilization has overpopulated this planet with 8,000,000,000 people in 2022, just so that they can watch civilization catastrophically and abruptly end in the relatively near future. 8 billion + people get to see the end of civilization and human extinction happen.
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Humans have already consumed all of the low-hanging fruit of fossil fuel extraction and other resource exploitation. Whereas 50 to 100 years ago there was still easy-to-exploit resources, by the 21st century, it has alll been depleted. Now, the most difficult-to-exploit resources is all the remains. For example, 50 to 100 years ago, we could still extract coal from mines located relatively close to big cities and major industrial areas. In 2022, we now have to extract coal from the most remote and inhospitable areas of this planet. In 2022, we are now extracting coal from the most remote and inhospitable areas of Siberia, and then transporting it thousands of kilometers to its potential customers in Europe, China, India, Japan and Indonesia.
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Given the ignorance of the general public, the incompetence and corruption of the governments and the unsustainability of our economic system, what will the future hold for humans? Probably nothing remotely good. Most likely, some clever businessmen will come up with ingenious ways off of profiting from the mayhem and destruction of industrial civilization’s decay and decline…oh wait, that is already happening with the COVID-19 pandemic…with the face masks and vaccines as a “solution” to the pandemic. Mark my word…capitalism will continue until the last human on Earth finally dies…which means that capitalism will eventually end…but not until the last human perishes from NTHE. The rapacious, clever ape will continue to profit off of mayhem and destruction until civilization permanently ends…and there is not a single human left on Earth in the not-too-distant future. Capitalism will not end until NTHE finishes off every last human on Earth. During the meanwhile time, humans will continue to deny the inevitability of NTHE…even when the signs of NTHE are obvious.
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I am very pessimistic about a solution to the human extinction problem. What we need is a simultaneous spiritual awakening world-wide that connects us with all other living things. We share the same DNA. We have to move away , not so much from the teachings of spiritual leaders like Jesus and Buddha, but from the rapacious institutions that supposedly carry their banner and manipulate their followers so they can retain their power and influence. They try to assume primacy in the social structures of their adherents by which they becomes chains that bind down those who wish to be released from their control, and that causes such folk to be alienated from those they love and/or who love them, but who are unable to be brave enough to become unfettered themselves. It requires immense courage and confidence and self-love to be brave enough to endure the ensuing isolation that comes with the exercise of thinking outside the religious box. Our spirituality ought to be defined by our connectedness with everything that has DNA and recognize we are a single interconnected community. The “primitive” indigenous do it far better than the “civilized” who will in time be exposed as the real barbarians on the planet. I weep for both our unbridled arrogance and our monumental stupidity
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“Spirtual awakening that connects us to all living things”? That is very unlikely to happen. Given humanity’s track record, we will keep on fucking things up. Whenever humanity was faced with the proverbial “fork in the road” (i.e. when we first discovered agriculture or discovered fossil fuels), we went on the wrong path, each and everytime. And all evidence indicates that we will continue going down the wrong path and continue making the worst decisions possible…until the day of reckoning happens, and we reach the extinction of humanity. The final and last “fork in the road”, IMO, was probably the invention of the Internet and social media…and it is clear that we fucked up on that opportunity, too. The Internet was a possibility for that “mass awakening” you mentioned…except we turned it into the most efficient form of corporate propaganda and brainwashing…with the elites now actively censoring the truth or any form of potential awakening for the masses on the Internet. But this is probably, paradoxically, “good” news because the increased censorship of the truth and the increased BS online means the elites know The End of Civilization aka NTHE is near. So they are desperate to prevent any mass awakening from happening.
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Apparently, most people don’t understand that industrial civilization would abruptly and catastrophically collapse when it becomes impossible to extract sufficient amounts of fossil fuels out of the ground (which will happen much sooner than most people expect). They don’t understand that 24/7 supply chains (all powered by energy from fossil fuels) is what sustains industrial civilization…and when those supply chains permanent collapse, industrial civilization ceases to exist, and humans will, most likely, quickly go extinct.
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Like I mentioned earlier, I wouldn’t be surprised that over 90% of the global human population dies within 2 to 3 years of the permanent collapse of the global supply chains and electrical grids. When the global, just-in-time, supply chains permanently fail, nobody is getting out of it alive…including the so-called elites.
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Human extinction by 2026 might sound absurd, but it could still potentially happen. 8 billion people perishing in just 3 to 4 years might sound impossible and unrealistic, but not when you realize how dependent all of those 8 billion people are of fossil fuels and global supply chains. Even if the supply chains collapse around the Xmas of 2023 or early 2024, human extinction before the end of 2026 is still a very real possibility. 8 billion people perishing within a mere 2 to 3 years of permanent global supply chain and electrical grid collapse is certainly a possibility that can’t be ruled out.
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Anytime I hear religion, I have to say : There is no proof for the existence of any deity ever worshiped in the history of the Clever Ape. Einstein was close. Doing the same think over & over & ignoring the consequences is fucking nuts.
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Just FYI, this site (Collapse of Industrial Civlization) is almost certainly a paid subscription for the author (xraymike79) of this site. Given that this site doesn’t have any advertisements on it, the author of this site is probably paying a monthly subscription to host the content on this blog. I think it is a 10 US Dollar per month subscription to host your own blog on WordPress IIRC. The question is…will this blog stay online until the global, electrical grids permanently goes out…or will this site go offline before SHTF happens? If the author this site dies before SHTF happens, then this site would disappear from the Internet, and where else can be we have intelligent conversations on the Internet? Will these doomer sites all disappear from the Internet before SHTF finally happens? If this site goes offline (before SHTF happens), it would be a tragic loss, IMO, because this site is one of the handful of places that tells people the TRUTH. I don’t want to waste my time on shit like Reddit and Facebook, as those are the only other places where NTHE can be discussed, if this site permanently goes offline. And Reddit and Facebook are both god awful sites, full of morons and censorship. This blog is literally the only site on the Internet (to my knowledge) where it is still possible to have a semi-intelligent conversation in 2022. All of the other sites are full of deniers, morons and paid shills.
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Perhaps, if this site goes offline before SHTF happens, I must start my own blog documenting the collapse of industrial civilization? It seems like I might be one of the only people in the world capable of this task.
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I absolutely hate those clueless people spouting hopium. I remember someone a few years ago mentioning the absurd claim that poor people living in Sub Sahara Africa, India and other “third world” countries are not dependent on fossil fuels, and are therefore living “environmentally” sustainable lives. That claim is complete BS. Almost all of the humans on this planet are dependent on industrial civilization and fossil fuels. Except for maybe one or two uncontacted tribes on this planet..assuming that such tribes still exist in 2022. Literally >99.99% (perhaps now 100%) of the 8 billion people on this planet are completely dependent on fossil fuels and indusrtrial civilization. People living in lower-tech “third world” countries may consume less fossil fuels per capita than developed countries, but they are still dependent on global supply chains and fossil fuels for food, water, clothing, automobiles, and other forms of technology. There is literally no nation on Earth that is capable of producing their own food and other living necessities. All nations on this planet depend on importing (or exporting) raw materials and finished products via the global fossil fuel-powered supply chains.
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I just made my own doomer blog. I hope you enjoy it!
https://theendofindustrialcivilization.blogspot.com/2022/12/is-industrial-civilization-sustainable.html?m=1
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Looks good!
I like to put plenty of links imbedded in the words of the essay to prove everything I say. For example, you talk about the dwindling building blocks of modern civilization, i.e. minerals, but what is the latest report on their supply? How close are we getting to a crunch that would cripple industry? Population still increasing, but link to the latest report.
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Good point…I am looking for those links right now, they can be found on Youtube, for example..like the “peak every crisis” mentioned in the following video
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Of course, I don’t know the exact date of when industrial civilization will finally end for good. However, there are some general predictions that can be made…like BAU will continue for as long as humanly (or inhumanly) possible. Things that could (or should) be done to mitigate the collapse will not be done because it isn’t profitable to let people know the truth…sure, a small minority of the population may get the truth (of how our global economy is fundamentally unsustainable, human population overshoot, etc), but the elites will continue to deny or hide the truth. So, we shouldn’t expect there will ever be a mass awakening. After all, the elites control the mass media and all telecommunication channels, so we can be fairly certain that they will prevent any mass awakening from happening.
Here is a better question: will there be a PS6 coming out in 2026? There might not be a new generation of video game consoles after this one because it might not be profitable to make one after this generation…perhaps, video games will only be developed for smartphones and PCs from now on, because that might be the only lucrative source of revenue from video games in another 2 to 3 years? This is, suprisingly, an important question to ask because it might be a dead obvious sign that permanent economic contraction is happening. After all, most (if not, all) of the low-hanging investment opportunities are quickly disappearing. The only profitable sources of investment opportunities left are the most sketchy and unethical businesses possible…disaster capitalism coming to the “rescue” during the inevitable and permanent contraction of the global economy (note my sarcasm). Smartphone and PC games are even more superficial and pointless than console games, but they are obviously more profitable and lucrative. So, I would imagine that Homo Economicus will find ways to digitalize as many intellectual properities as possible…because selling physical copies of books, movies, video games and etc is not as efficient (and therefore, not as profitable) as selling digital copies.
Just my two cents for today.
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Here is the bottom line: there might be no sucessor to the Nintendo Switch, PS5, and other current video game consoles etc because of permanent global economic contraction (caused by peak oil and the depletion of other nonrenewable resources). Quite possibly, because people simply won’t have enough disposable income for new video game consoles anymore (caused by permanent global economic contraction). If there is no PS6 coming out in 2025/2026, it might be an obvious sign that the global economy is permanently contracting and the end is near. Of course, even if a PS6 is released in another 2 to 3 years from now, it isn’t proof that things are OK…it might just be TPTB desperately trying to maintain the illusion of BAU. If there is no new consumer products coming out on a regular basis, it might make it too obvious that BAU cannot continue forever and that the collapse of civilization is near.
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http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2022/12/the-short-lifespan-of-technological-civilizations-and-the-future-of-homo-sapiens.html
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If the earth is flat, where are the pictures of the edge.
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You remember me mentioning how technological progress is a myth? You want more proof of my assertion? I own two laptops…one from 2012 and another from 2014…both still working, btw. And I compared them to the new laptops made in 2022 at Walmart and Costco. And guess what? The new laptops made in 2022 have literally zero improvements over my laptops made 8 to 10 years ago. And I own a smartphone from 2013. And my new smartphone (which I bought during this May) has basically zero improvement over the one from 2013. What do you think are the chances that smartphones are the literally the last and final major technological gimmick that humans invent before industrial civilization ends?
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https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2022/12/the-simple-story/
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I read many forum online posts over the years, and it appears that everything written about peak oil and permanent economic contraction is already becoming a reality. Many people–who used to be able to afford luxury consumer items like cars, computers and airliner travel–can no longer afford to do so. Nowadays, these same people can barely afford to ride on a public bus for transport, and they can no longer afford a fancy computer…they can barely afford a cheap smartphone…if they are lucky. The people–who can afford a middle class life–is rapidly dwindling. Especially amongst the millenials or younger generations. They can no longer afford the luxuries and priveleges that their parents and grandparents could afford. Anyone born after the 1980s or 1990s is totally screwed. They might be able to afford some luxuries and priveleges, if they can inherit some wealth or social status from their parents. Without this, they will most likely be stuck with dead-end, minimum wage jobs with barely any ability to afford basic living necessities…let alone a “decent” life.
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The future is not going to be fun for any of us.
Nothing like younger generations’ hypocrisy & their inability to understand numbers in relation to a majority. Since we B.Bs are in a minority,all the problems today are in the majority hands of the Gen X, Millennials & Gen Z. That’s one hell of a voting block that hasn’t seemed to solve any of Baby Boomers Clusterfuck Fubars. How could they not with all the wonderful technology today? If one is not part of the solution, they are part of the problem?
Let’s not forget this species motto: “It’s not my fault.”
https://www.statista.com/statistics/797321/us-population-by-generation/
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How can they (the young people) solve the world’s problems if their mere existence on this planet is the primary cause of the problem? Hint: the reason is overpopulation. Since 1975, the globe’s human population literally doubled from 4 billion people to 8 billion people. Unfortunately, many of the young people are just as clueless of the overpopulation problem as their parents and grandparents…hence global human population is still skyrocketing despite per capita fertility rates having lowered in 2022 than during the Baby Boomer Generation of the 1950s and early 1960s. Many young people are still frantically reproducing because apparently they still don’t understand the reality of the overpopulation problem. The Baby Boomers are, not surprisingly, still encouraging their children to reproduce…to have more grandchildren. We all know where this is going to end up. It is already too late to solve the overpopulation problem. We all know that mass, global famine is literally just a few years away (if it isn’t already happening). I wouldn’t be surprised that at least 80% to 90% of the global human population perishes by 2030 TBH.
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It will be awhile & I don’t know if I’ll be alive but it will be a great party when 440+ nuclear power plants pot the cork because there aren’t any technicians to power them down. And then there is all the spent nuclear fuel sitting around.We won’t be here & we will still be destroying what’s left of the habitat.
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It is rather ironic that, apparently, the most “intelligent” creature on Earth–Homo Sapiens–is incapable of preventing its own self-inflicted extinction. It is already too late at this point, especially with 8,000,000,000 people currently alive on this planet, and with global, civilization-destroying famine probably no more than 2 to 3 years away. The Arctic, summer sea ice is already completely gone, meaning that we’ve already entered irreversible, abrupt climate change. Plus, we have already entered the permanent decline of global oil extraction. The “Third World” countries (like China, India and Sub-Sahara Africa) might experience a mass die-off of global human population/NTE slightly earlier than “developed” countries like Canada and the USA. But no one is getting out of NTE alive. Eventually, (and probably in the relatively near future) , NTE will be killing everyone on this planet, including citizens of “developed” countries.
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Homo Sapiens’ near term extinction would be the best thing that could ever happen to this planet. Who would actually want humans to persist on this planet for millions of years into the future? Homo Sapiens is clearly an evolutionary dead-end. The day when the last human to walk the Earth perishes would be the best day in human history. And that day is literally arriving closer every passing day (for better or worse). The day of reckoning is arriving closer literally every passing day.
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Random thought about what I read earlier -” Number one rule on getting stranded in a snowstorm/blizzard…”
Don’t get stranded in a blizzard! or watch the weather forecast before one decides to travel. Holidays are not life or death situations that require being stupid.
There is no vaccine, no reason, no logic or critical thinking that will help. Maybe consequences could trigger a little spark of common sense.
Fuck entitled Americans that think they are the center of the universe & that nothing should upset their value system or set of living arrangements. I have no compassion for those that get what they deserve. 8,000,000,000 of us will. As my cousin would say:
Let ’em die dumb!
Stupidity,bitching & moaning is starting to piss me off. 😉
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Like I mentioned before, the systematic denial and censorship of NTHE is proof that it is inevitable. If this was all BS, then why would the corporate-states engage in such a vast denial, disinformation and censorship campaign against the reality of NTHE? Because they (the elites) know it will happen, and the only way they can continue BAU is by denying and censoring this reality. The only way they can continue the pyramid scheme of consumer capitalism is by denying and hiding the reality of NTHE. Because if too many of the masses realize the reality of NTHE (and most importantly, the primary cause of it…hint: overpopulation and our infinite-growth economic paradigm), who would continue to willingly support the debt slave/wage slave/consumerist system of capitalism? The elites already know it is GAME OVER for industrial civilization and humanity…now, all they can do is pretend that BAU can continue forever.
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Here is more proof of humanity’s inevitable doom and extinction. GMOs. Virtually all of the food in the world is produced from GMO seeds. And those GMO seeds are produced and distributed in only a handful of places on the entire planet. Yet (virtually) all of the crops in the entire world comes from a handful of GMO-seed producing factories. When the global supply chains do permanently collapse, it would make it literally impossible to manufacture and distribute GMO seeds to grow crops around the world. Meaning, when the supply chains permanently collapse in the not-too-distant future, the entire global industrial agriculture system completely fails. And it becomes impossible to grow any crops without those GMO seeds. In addition, when the supply chains fail, it becomes impossible to produce and distribute food across the world. Meaning mass starvation and famine on a global scale leading potentially to NTHE.
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Don’t need to worry about Santa Claus giving people lumps of coal for Christmas because humans are still frantically mining and burning coal on XMas. Like every other day of every year. If the coal stops being mined and burned, we all know that collapse of industrial civilization will quickly happen. Literally everything Made in China was made using energy from coal. And coal still takes up at least 1/4 of global energy consumption. Second only to oil.
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Hope everyone has a Merry Increasing CO2 a Happy Near Term Human Extinction.
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And humans continue to extract and burn fossil fuels of literally every second of everyday. We (intelligent) people know that industrial civilization will quickly collapse and NTE will occur when humans stop extracting and burning fossil fuels. Here is a nice educational video about coal formation btw
Hope you enjoy your Christmas…and don’t forgot that Santa Claus doesn’t need to give us a lump of coal for Xmas every year, because we highly, “intelligent” (humans) are frantically digging it up and burning it without the assistance of Santa Claus.
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I just did a quick search on the Internet on the topic of “bushmeat”, and it seems like humans are literally eating all of the remaining wild animals to extinction. Here is an example of such bushmeat consumption.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/oct/19/worlds-mammals-being-eaten-into-extinction-report-warns
When global industrial civilization collapses and we run out of wild animals to eat, what will humans be eating? Each other? Seems like that might be the case when civilization-ending famine strikes and humans literally eat every remaining, wild vertebrate to extinction. And eventually, the only thing left for humans to eat is other humans. Guess the Zombie Apocalypse might become a reality one day.
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It is December 30th, 2022 in Southern Western Ontario, and the temperature is 11oC. A full 11 degrees Celsius above zero in the middle of winter. What the hell? How can it be so warm at this time of the year in Canada? Maybe it is because of runaway abrupt climate change/global warming caused by human industrial activity? Maybe the methane is leaking out much faster than anyone anticipated?
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I think this article might be worth sharing:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/11/23/digital-astroturfing-as-corporate-propaganda/
It just shows how little “freedom” we have in our “democratic” countries. It just shows how powerful corporations are, and how governments have been completely usurped by capitalists and the monied elites.
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We mustn’t attack corporations. “Corporations are people.”
FMTT!
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There is a reason I posted that link. It shows that TPTB are “secretly” hiding behind the shadows of all online activities. What may appear to be “legit” protest against the status quo might just be astroturfing by the corporate elites. I damn well know that many (if not) most “protests” against the elites is just astroturfing. Just a bunch of paid FBI/CIA/NSA agents setting up a fake, grassroot, protest movement against the elites. This way the elites can discredit or destroy any actual legit opposition to the status quo. Greta Thunberg is probably just controlled opposition. She is probably just pretending to protest against fossil fuel companies to “save” the planet from global warming. I am not saying that global warming is fake. What is fake, however, are astroturfed protest movements by fakers like Greta Thunberg and Bill McKibben. Legit protest against the status quo (like real whistleblowers like Michael Ruppert, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden) are prosecuted by the corporate-state or commit “suicide” (possibly the elites assainated them under the false notion of suicide).
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And the majority of deluded, hopium-addicted people still believe that technology will prevent industrial civilization from its inevitable collapse. I wonder if people will finally realize the reality of overpopulation when industrial civilization does finally collapse for good and NTHE does finally happen? Do people honestly believe that “renewable” energy and crap like “vertical farming” will replace fossil fuels and prevent the collapse of industrial civilization from happening? Apparently, many (if not most) people are actually that delusional and brainwashed. I look forward to the day when their delusions are shattered when NTE does finally happen. It is painfully obvious that industrial civilization–and more importantly, Homo Sapiens–is fundamentally unsustainable, yet most people think that human civilization will never end?
Like I already mentioned, NTE is the final acceptance of the inevitable consequences of Homo Sapiens’ fundamental inability to live sustainably and in harmony with its natural environment. Homo Sapiens’ near term extinction is caused by its own fundamental inability to live in harmony with its environment. Humans are really no different from a cancer or out-of-control pest on this planet.
For better or worse, humanity’s extinction is not-too-far away. I reckon that there might not be any humans on this planet within 20 to 30 years from now. Maybe not complete human extinction by 2026 or 2030. But I can assure you that the living conditions of human beings will continue to rapidly decline until civilization does finally end for good. The living conditions for humans has already been in perpeutal decline for several decades, despite “advancements” in modern technology.
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Here is an article showing one of the countless examples of how dependent we (humans) are of global supply chains and fossil fuels.
https://energyskeptic.com/2020/invisible-oil-and-energy-payback-time/
Yep, even something as “simple” as a wooden pencil, requires 24/7 global supply chains (all powered by energy from fossil fuels) to be manufactured (let alone distributed to retailers and customers). Let that sink in for a few minutes. When the global supply chains and industrial civilization collapses in the not-too-distant future, it probably means NTHE (humans won’t be able to revert back to the Stone Age because, first of all, probably nobody knows how to survive without modern technology/fossil fuels in 2022 and onwards. Plus, even if someone knew how to survive without industrial civilization, they would still be doomed because all of the resources necessary for hunting and gathering–like an abundance of wild animals and plants– has been destroyed by industrial civilization). We, humans, are literally creating the conditions for our own extinction in the relatively near future. Yet, we call ourselves “wise”.
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Let’s do nothing but continue to bitch & moan & see what the consequences will be.
Starting simple,a solution no one will agree with;anyone committing a crime of theft,fraud,physical attack that involves their hands loses a finger,second offense they lose the rest of their fingers on that hand,third offense they lose the fingers on the other hand. There are probably some slow learners.
Or bleeding hearts can continue to suffer loss, physical pain & live in fear in a society. Sometimes one gets what they deserve.
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Here is a better question…how many people in 2022/2023 can actually survive without industrial civilization/fossil fuels? I think that number might be close to zero people out of the 8,000,000,000 plus people currently alive on this planet. Everyone on this site certainly couldn’t survive without fossil fuels. And neither would, at least, 99.99% of the global human population. Our enormous global human population is just a false sense of security…it will do absolutely nothing to save us from human extinction when collapse of industrial civilization does happen.
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Like we discussed several months ago on this site, people living in the “Third World” are not living remotely ecologically sustainable lives, contrary to what some people may say. Sure, “Third Worlders” may consume less natural resources per capita than “First Worlders”, but those people living in “poor” countries are destroying nature just as frantically as “First Worlders”. Also, keep in mind that people in the “developing” countries are equally as dependent on global supply chains and fossil fuels as people in “developed” countries. Just look at people in Somalia, Mali and Niger. They are all using technologies created by industrial civilization. And the stuff they use was produced from far away countries..manufactured and distributed via global supply chains. Literally, every country on this planet is dependent on the omnicidal, global industrial economy. I can assure you that people living in developing countries are equally as doomed as people living in developed countries when industrial civilization collapses. Nobody living on this planet will be spared when industrial civilization collapses…this collapse, which is already happening. There will eventually be no humans on this planet…and most likely, within a few short decades from now. Like Frank Werner once said, “I am convinced that our presence on this planet is not sustainable, so we will become extinct fairly soon”. Yep, humanity’s presence on this planet is fundamentally unsustainable, so human extinction in the relatively near-term is, more or less, a certainty.
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One won’t hear any of these links on any of the Left/Right media. Well maybe a few that I haven’t seen.
https://climateandeconomy.com/2023/01/02/2nd-jan-2023-todays-round-up-of-climate-news/
Two links from above.
Why do these religious idiots piss off their Sunni or Shia god?
Someone is not praying 5 times a day? Don’t piss off ALLAH! Nothing happens against his will.
Wonder why Christians are having such terrible weather? Do unto your habitat or your habitat will do unto you.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-arabia-jeddah-flood-second-time-weeks
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202301017189
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The Fool Ape will take both the Red & Blue pill & chase them with the Kool-aid. No cure for stupidity or ego.
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The two most taboo terms in the English language…”NTHE” ( or near term human extinction) and “overpopulation”. Everyone pretends NTHE and overpopulation aren’t real. Of course, when civilization does finally collapse, everyone might finally realize the primary cause of NTHE was overpopulation the whole time? Hopefully, they finally realize the truth when the day of reckoning does happen. Or maybe they might never figure out the reality of overpopulation being the primary cause of NTHE? Who knows?
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What hope is there of humans preventing their own extinction when they are completely obssessed with earning as many pieces of fiat currency as possible? What hope is there of humans saving themselves from extinction when they only see value in extracting as much profit as possible? What hope is there for humanity when they only care about fiat currency, crap TV and stupid electronic gadgets? What hope is there for Homo Sapiens when the only thing it cares about is earning worthless, fiat currency…this currency, which will truly be worthless when civilization comes to an abrupt and catastrophic end sooner or later?
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If the Monkey Minds would all quit breathing, there wouldn’t be as much CO2 in the atmosphere.
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About 43.1 billion tons of CO2 was emitted by industrial civilization in 2022. Of course, when CO2 emissions rapidly drop or are significantly reduced (probably in the relatively near future), that isn’t a good sign…that would mean that the global economy is finished for good, and collapse of industtial civilization has happened. Yes, the only way to prevent future CO2 emissions is for industrial civilization to collapse, but that wouldn’t save us from abrupt climate change because of the climatic feedback loops that have already been unleashed. And collapse of civilization means billions of people will perish very quickly (just from the collapse of the global supply chains and electricity grid)…not to mention, 440+ nuclear reactors catastrophically melting down. And spreading deadly radiation across the globe.
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Needless to say, the ONLY realistic, viable alternative energy source to fossil fuels is burning biomass…like wood and plants. That is the only “viable” alternative to fossil fuels for the pyromaniac, human ape. Unfortunately, with 8 billion plus people on this planet in 2023, there is nowhere enough biomass on this planet to sustain our current human population without fossil fuels. Burning biomass might have been “sustainable” if there was only 8 million or 80 million people on this planet. Even with “only” 800 million people on the planet in 1723 AD, biomass was no longer feasible/sustainable. When human population was “only” 800 million people, we had no choice but to switch to fossil fuels. Now, with 8 billion people on this planet (combined with our completely unsustainable economic system), there is no viable solution for the continuation of Homo Sapiens beyond perhaps just a few more decades from now. Let alone continueing BAU aka consumer capitalism.
Telling humans to stop burning fossil fuels is completely insane and unrealistic. Especially when you realize that there is literally no viable alternative to fossil fuels…especially when you realize how hopelessly dependent Homo Sapiens is of fossil fuels. Not just Homo Economicus or Homo Colossus. Just Homo Sapiens, in general. Humans are already burning as much biomass as physically possible, and even then, biomass takes up less than 10% of total global energy consumption. In Sub Sahara Africa, they are already chopping down and burning as many trees and biomass as physically possible…and there is still no potential for biomass to come anywhere close to replacing the energy provided by fossil fuels. In China and India, coal burning is the only viable energy source. Because there is nowhere enough biomass in China and India to burn.
Telling humans to stop burning fossil fuels is 100% out of the question. Like some people mentioned before, there is NO SOLUTION with 8 billion people on this planet. Even if we stopped the capitalist economy dead in its tracks, how the freaking hell can you sustain 8 billion people without fossil fuels? And the chances of stopping the capitalist economy is a pipe dream. Never ever will happen. Capitalism will probably continue until literally the last human on Earth dies from human extinction. And as long as capitalism continues, fossil fuels will continue to be burned because there is no viable alternative to fossil fuels for our global economy.
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Let’s put it more simply. When industrial civilization does finally collapse for good, you won’t even have enough energy available in your body to chop down trees or collect biomass for fires. Simply put, when the global supply chains permanently collapse, it is GAME OVER. No more food in the grocery stores, no more gas at the gas stations, no more water coming out of the municipal pipes, no more electricity, etc. There is a good chance that most people will die from violence caused by social strife (rather than starvation or disease) when civilization ends for good.
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This post might be worth looking at. I hope you guys enjoy it.
https://theendofindustrialcivilization.blogspot.com/2023/01/a-brief-history-of-mankind-and.html?m=1
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In a hypothetical world, if the industrial revolution and fossil fuels were never discovered, how different would human history be? Most likely, the global human population might have peaked at around 1.5 billion to 2 billion people in the early 21st century, and humanity might have persisted on this planet for another 500 to 1,000 years before a slow and gradual decline in human population eventually lead to human extinction around 2500 AD to 3,000 AD from environment degradation and depletion of other nonrenewable resources. Even if the industrial revolution never happened and we kept at 14th century, Medieval-level technology, human extinction would still eventually occur. There just wouldn’t have been a mass, sudden and catastrophic die off of the global population leading to human extinction. It would have been a series of small local/regional die offs (caused by environmental degradation and depletion of other nomrenewable resources) leading to human extinction maybe 500 to 1,000 years from now? Rather than NTE 20 to 30 years from now with the discovery of fossil fuels and industrial civilization?
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