Abrupt Climate Change, AMOC, Antarctic Ice Melt, Anthropocene Mass Extinction, Arctic Ice Melt, Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation, Blue Acceleration, Canfield Ocean, Capitalism, Carbon Dioxide, Climate Change, CO2, Cretaceous–Paleogene Extinction Event, Dr. Peter Ward, Fossil Fuel Dependency, Gerald Durrell, Great Acceleration, Gulf Stream, Hothouse Earth, Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S), IPCC, Jet Stream, K-T Extinction, Loss of Biodiversity, Megadrought, Methane, Micro-Plastic Pollution, Nate Hagens, Nicholas P. Money, Ocean Acidification, PETM Extinction Event, Sea Level Rise, Social Media Algorithms, Widespread Ocean Anoxia
Nate Hagens’ recent interview of Professor Peter Ward, entitled “Oceans – What’s the Worst that Can Happen?”, serves as a good overview of mankind’s destruction of the marine biosphere and our road to extinction. The title is a rather rhetorical question because very bad things have happened, are already happening, and even worse things are unavoidable and on the horizon despite hopes that humans will run out of ways to extract the dirtiest and most inaccessible fossil fuel deposits. We have seen how inextricably linked economic growth is to rising fossil fuel consumption, no matter the mounting disasters happening before our eyes and the steady stream of dire warnings issued from the scientific community. The most current of such warnings came from the UN last month, and it states that escalating synergies between disasters, economic vulnerabilities and ecosystem failures are increasing the risk of a “global collapse” scenario. Such a catastrophic scenario appears all but inevitable. Constricting fossil fuel consumption is like squeezing a balloon. If one country stops consumption, another takes up the slack. For example, efforts to cripple Russia’s fossil fuel exports for their unwarranted invasion of Ukraine don’t appear to be very effective since China and India have simply stepped in and increased their purchases. Rising oil prices have also more than offset a decline in Russia’s export volumes. Perhaps an unintended consequence of those higher energy prices will be the ripple effect through the economy, making food unaffordable for large swaths of the globe and destabilizing governments.
Getting back to the Peter Ward interview, the professor states matter of factly, “Every time we get into a car, it’s putting more of those CO2 particles into the atmosphere. And if this isn’t collective suicide by Homo sapiens, I don’t know what is.” Unfortunately for us, humans have created an unsustainable civilization supporting billions of people while at the same time destroying the very foundation upon which that system is dependent. Humans are by far outperforming the carbon-spewing volcanoes of past mass extinctions. Nicholas Money, renowned mycologist and author of many books, recently wrote:
Decades ago, Gerald Durrell, the famous conservationist, recognized that “the human race is in the position of a man sawing off the tree branch he is sitting on.” Thirty years after Durrell’s death, the human population has increased by 2 billion and the damage has intensified. The branch will snap now whether we keep sawing or not.
The timeline for extinctions is not known, but, sooner or later, the disappearing mammals will be joined by the other groups of animals. Almost everything will be leaving the metaphorical ark, creeping down the gangplank into oblivion. Millions of other species, seen and unseen, including plants, seaweeds, and fungi will be leaving, too. The tiniest of organisms will inherit the planet, but great gulps of the microbial world will also disappear in the depths of this planetary holocaust…
Exact dates are not known, but mankind’s final fate can be seen scrawled upon the familiar checklist for mass extinctions which we are quickly ticking off, one by one. As Ward points out, every time there has been a major disruption in Earth’s delicate biogeochemical carbon cycle, there has been a mass extinction. Today that disruption is happening on a timescale much faster than at any time in the past, even faster than the asteroid impact that killed off the dinosaurs. During the K-T extinction, the immediate impact of the asteroid killed only the large animals. It took thousands of years for the consequent climate change to kill off smaller organisms. Current trends are exponentially faster, not only with anthropogenic climate disruption incinerating the biosphere within a lifetime but also by a multi-pronged attack from other human activities such as chemical and plastic pollution, the global spread of invasive species, and humanity’s massive overdraw on the planet’s resources.
If one were to equate Earth’s geologic history to a calendar year, modern humans have been around for a mere 37 minutes while managing to consume 1/3rd of Earth’s natural resources in just the last 0.2 seconds. The biomass of wild mammals has fallen by 83% since prehistory and it is projected that by 2050 humans will have eliminated 38–46% of all biodiversity from the planet. 70% of the planet’s land area has been altered by humans, with 40% considered degraded. By 2050, an area of land the size of South America will be further degraded. Nearly all of the marine biosphere has been degraded. Now Modern man has set his sights on wringing the last dollar of profit from the already dying oceans in what is being heralded as the “Blue Acceleration”, a not-so-clever play of words on the Great Acceleration referring to the period starting around 1950 when measurements of humanity’s impact on the planet’s resources went hyperbolic:
As pressures on Earth’s land grow and terrestrial resources look increasingly exhausted, governments and corporations are seeing the next big wins on, in and under the high seas. Whether it is mineral exploration, shipping, energy, tourism, desalination, cable laying, bioprospecting or more, ocean-based industries are picking up speed fast.
This “blue acceleration” has many people worried…With the power to profit from remote ocean resources growing rapidly, and the laws that govern their exploitation less than clear, we risk a free-for-all in the deep. “Our society has been based on the degradation of nature, destruction of nature,” says marine ecologist Enric Sala…
The new plunge into the ocean has come about in part because technologies – from ocean drilling and offshore wind turbines to desalination plants and factory trawlers – have made it possible. “A lot of offshore industries were unthinkable even just a few decades ago,” says Jouffray.
And so it goes, Homo sapiens onward march of eating the seed corn and leaving a husk of a planet for future generations …if there are to be any.
Back to Peter Ward and that checklist for mass extinction…The second step after a large release of heat trapping gasses is that Earth’s poles will start warming up much faster than the rest of the globe, melting the polar icecaps and reducing the heat differential between the equator and higher latitudes. A recent study found that the Arctic is heating up as much as seven times faster than the global average. The Antarctic is warming four times faster than the global average. This diminishing heat differential between the higher latitudes and the equator leads to the third step which is that ocean currents and atmospheric jet streams slow down and become stagnant and swampish. As professor Ward points out, swamps have a lot of nasty, toxic aspects to them such as hydrogen sulfide. This has happened to the oceans many times in Earth’s history with deadly consequences, the most recent being the PETM extinction which was associated with the largest deep-sea mass extinction event in the last 93 million years. Less than 5% of sea creatures survived. The oceans became a poisonous and miasmic brew of acidification, hypoxia and sulfide gases. Deep ocean upwellings injected hydrogen sulfide into the atmosphere, laying waste to plants and animals. This killer gas rose to the upper atmosphere and also attacked the ozone layer, allowing deadly ultraviolet radiation from the sun to amplify the destruction of plant and animal life. Fossil spores contained in strata from the PETM extinction show deformities consistent with damage from UV radiation. Major disruptions in the hydrologic cycle occurred with evidence of increased continental runoff. Land suffered extreme precipitation events. Dinoflagellates, tiny organisms that ooze toxins and create deadly algal blooms called ‘red tides’, flourished in the nearly 100°F surface water of the equator. Less than a third of the large animal species made it. Nearly all trees died. No ice existed on the planet during that time. Sea levels were around 300 feet higher than now.
Today we are pumping heat trapping gases into the atmosphere nine to tens times higher than during the PETM extinction. We are just four generations away from matching the chemical composition of the atmosphere that caused that die-off event. However, we are already seeing major changes in the Earth’s climate system that align with the third step toward a mass extinction. Proxy data (like coral data, ocean sediments, and land-based data) along with modern-day instrumentation show an intense weakening of the AMOC, Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation, in the past 200 years. And the Gulf Steam, a component of the AMOC, is also showing signs of collapse. We are in the process of turning off the global ocean conveyor belt that keeps the ocean oxygenated and helps regulate the Earth’s climate. Ocean acidity has increased about 30% from preindustrial times to the early 21st century, a pace faster than any known in Earth’s geologic past. The volume of anoxic ocean waters has quadrupled since the 1960s, and evidence suggests that temperature increases explain about 50% of oxygen loss in the upper 1000 meters of the ocean. Ocean stratification due to climate change has increased 18% in the top 150 meters of the oceans since 1960. Stratified ocean layers have a number of negative effects such as preventing the mixing and transport of heat, carbon dioxide, oxygen, and nutrients to the lower depths of the oceans. It was only recently, November 2021, that a group of scientists issued a plea to governments for establishing a global monitoring system to track the loss of oxygen in the oceans causing dead zones:
“There is a pressing need to document and predict hypoxic episodes and hotspots of low oxygen in order to take protective actions for aquaculture, put in place precautionary measures for affected fisheries, and monitor the wellbeing of important fish stocks,” Limburg said.
“Without this understanding, we are in the dark about impacts that have large economic-ecological implications.”…
“These problems are getting worse because we are not solving the problems of nutrient run-off and our waters are continuing to warm.
Stalled Rossby waves in the Jet Stream linked to extreme weather events have increased significantly in the last twenty years. U.S. crop losses due to drought and flooding have trippled since 1995. Onward we march into oblivion.
Despite the horrors described thus far, what really scares Professor Ward is sea level rise. Ward believes that the volcano of mankind will sputter out before we reach the levels required for a full-fledged Canfield Ocean, and negative feedback loops in the climate system will pull Earth back from the brink. The “Canfield Ocean”, a sulfidic and partially oxic ocean, existed for more than 40% of Earth history, between the Archean and Ediacaran periods. It would take millennia to reach that state again, but humans are supercharging the process to get there by releasing into the ocean vast quantities of nutrients from agricultural fertilizer, soil erosion, industrial waste and sewage, in addition to the ever-growing release of CO2 and methane emissions. Humans have become a geologic force breaching most if not all of the planetary boundaries that make Earth hospitable for life. The mechanisms required for Earth to return to a dead, toxic planet may have already been irreversibly set into motion.
Getting back to Ward’s fear, the most recent report on sea level rise states that it is accelerating with an increase of one foot expected along U.S. coasts by 2050. And that is only if emissions are curbed now. Otherwise, expect up to 5 feet. The researchers say that one foot of SLR over the next three decades is equal to the total that occurred over the past century. Just one foot of vertical rise in sea level will swallow up 100 feet of shoreline if the slope is just 1% or more, a typical slope for most coastlines. To make matters worse, most coastal cities are sinking at a rate faster than the seas are rising. Thus within the next few decades, we could see several hundred feet of shoreline swallowed up along coasts of America and around the world, creating the largest human migration in history. Ward believes we’ll have six feet of sea level rise by 2080 which will destroy a big percentage of the world’s rice production, primarily through salinization. Rice is the number one food source for a majority of the world population today. Sea level rise alone could devastate global trade, not to mention the inevitable damage to ports from stronger storms. The latest IPCC report made it clear that parts of the planet are fast becoming uninhabitable:
Life in some locations on the planet is rapidly reaching the point where it will be too hot for the species that live there to survive, international climate experts said in a report Monday.
“With climate change, some parts of the planet will become uninhabitable,” said German scientist Hans-Otto Pörtner, co-chair of Working Group II for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which produced the report released in Berlin…
…Increased heat waves, droughts and floods are already exceeding plants’ and animals’ tolerance thresholds, driving mass mortalities in species such as trees and corals, according to the report…
…Sherilee Harper, a lead author on the North American chapter and an associate professor at the University of Alberta’s public health school, said she was personally struck by the effect climate change already is having on the “physical and mental health of many Americans.”
Peter Ward then brings up something I don’t remember hearing about global warming. The higher temperatures are disrupting the sperm fertility of organisms. Ward says it’s an existential threat to the amount of food we can produce. Recent studies show this to be true and the damage continues across generations:
…according to new research. New findings reveal that heatwaves damage sperm in insects – with negative impacts for fertility across generations. The research team say that male infertility during heatwaves could help to explain why climate change is having such an impact on species populations, including climate-related extinctions in recent years.
Nate and Peter then get into the societal ignorance preventing humans from addressing any serious problem, let alone the existential threat of anthropogenic climate disruption. Peter says, “How could we, as a species, take something as simple as masks and turn it into a political ploy where the level of ignorance will kill you, will kill you?!?” Nate then explains how social media algorithms are set up to highlight the most polarizing content in order to generate more user activity since their business model is based on user engagement. In order to keep users online, the social media platforms are also designed to be very addictive such as with the infinite scroll feature and the “like” button.
In 2017, Facebook’s former president, Sean Parker, said publicly that the company sought to consume users’ time as much as possible, and that the act was “exploiting a vulnerability in human psychology”…”That means that we needed to sort of give you a little dopamine hit every once in a while because someone liked or commented on a photo or a post or whatever… It’s a social validation feedback loop… You’re exploiting a vulnerability in human psychology…” – link
There is no fixing this dysfunctional social media ecosystem because it is operating exactly as intended. Our profit-driven economic system is rooted in inequality, exploitation, dispossession, and environmental destruction. And encouraging the public to turn off the horror show of climate chaos and biodiversity annihilation are essential for this system to continue. Exploiting tribal biases is a good way to keep the plebs fighting amongst themselves as the last dollar is extracted from a dying planet. Nate asks, “If we can’t have a discussion on what’s real or not with COVID, how are we going to have one about the ocean’s ecosystems and Earth systems and our collective future?” Indeed.
I am loving this.
‘Aim higher, act faster, or risk losing it all’ – Too late,assholes!
“We must focus on the fact that predictions are now becoming observations,” Professor Hughes added. Shit’s hit the fan.
No species could be more deserving.
As an aside for Christians: Isiah 14:24
“Prepare for his sons a place of slaughter
Because of the iniquity of their fathers.
They must not arise and take possession of the earth
And fill the face of the world with cities.”
Damn! Sounds like population control.
Random Cool Stuff. said:
The vast majority of “scientists” and “professionals” make ridiculous statements, like “how technology will fix all of humanity’s problems”, “humans are too adaptive and clever to ever go extinct” , etc. I don’t take the vast majority of scientists seriously because they are just there to promote the status quo. They pretend (or are ignorant) of the impending and imminent demise of industrial civilization and Homo Sapiens, because they believe in the bullshit of human “exceptionalism”, the myth of technological “progress”, religious dogma, etc. These scientists are not reliable sources of knowledge, because if they were, they would be telling us the 100% truth that “humanity is a rapacious disease and cancer on this planet. Humanity’s presence on Earth is completely unsustainable. And we are going to go extinct in the relatively near future from overpopopulation, resource depletion, environmental degradation and a plethora of other factors caused by humanity’s greed and hubris”. Instead, they tell us that “non-stop economic growth and technological “progress” will continue indefinitely into the future. And that life for humans is constantly “improving” thanks to technological “progress” and free market capitalism.” What a bunch of bullshit. Yet, these scientists and professionals keep on telling us these bullshit lies, and they get paid millions of dollars every year for lying to the public. I hope their delusions of anthropocentrism gets completely shattered by near-term human extinction when it happens.
Random Cool Stuff. said:
Here is a fun fact for you guys to enjoy. Under capitalism, the people/corporations, that actually produce goods and services, struggle to make any revenue/profits–at all. For example, game studios that produce video game software–like Ubisoft and EA Games–almost always struggle to make any signfiiciant revenue…let alone, make any profits, in either the short-term or long-term. The only people/corporations, that can make any significiant revenues/profits, are those that control the sales/distribution of goods and services. Like Walmart, Amazon, Costco and Valve Corporation. Only a handful of large-scale retailers/sellers of goods/services can make any significiant revenues/profits. And many large-scale retailers–like Hudson Bay and Sears–are already going bankrupt from lack of sales/lack of revenue/negative profitability. The game of capitalism is so incredibly rigged and unfair–for many other reasons–yet the vast majority of people don’t protest about it at all. For some strange reason.
“the vast majority of people don’t protest about it at all.”
I constantly can’t understand (must be smarter or dumber) why people, everyday, just amble thru life & are not concerned about things that have direct effects on there set of living arrangements. Getting caught up in political, religious, economic propaganda must simply distort one’s vision. We mustn’t upset the naive sheep?
“If one is not mad as hell,they aren’t paying attention.”
What this species is about to experience could be described as, human suffering.
Random Cool Stuff. said:
Ironically, the best time to be alive (for a human being) was probably during the era of feudalism. While society was already socially stratifed at that time, at least the poor/commoners/serfs still had some access to free natural resources i.e. the commons haven’t been privitized yet. People, during feudalism, had more leisure time and free-time and worked fewer hours, than the wageslave under capitalism. They (serfs) also had good-quality community and family life, rather than the dog-eat-dog individualism of capitalism. The only downside to feudalism was that they didn’t have access to modern technologies (like the Internet and computers), but I would argue that life for a feudal serf was much better that of a factory, wageslave in the developing countries of today.
Denial is a river of electrons in one’s brain.
Click to access IPCC_AR6_SYR_PressRelease_en.pdf
Random Cool Stuff. said:
Please keep in mind, that posting these comments on this site, requires alot of energy on my belief. Not just electrical energy, but also energy stored in my body.
Don’t expend too much energy,no one is paying attention to us.
Pointing out the stupidity of this species is the easiest thing I choose to do,requiring very little effort because it’s on full display. 🙂
There is nothing better than watching the news media, blogs & their brilliant panels/guests tell me everything they “know” about politics,economics & everything else, while their habitat is being destroyed. The fools don’t realize the possible human suffering in the future, including theirs. Bullshit seems to be their priority as they will talk about anything for a dollar, clicks, likes, subscriptions. Apparently overpopulation & it’s destruction talk can’t be monetized.
Random Cool Stuff. said:
I just realized that maybe…just maybe, the root of the problem isn’t overpopulation? Maybe the root of the problem is that humanity is a fundamentally unsustainable species? Of course, even a small population of humans is bad for the planet…let alone, 8,000,000,000 + people on this planet. Like I said before, NTHE is simply the inevitable consequence of humanity’s fundamental unsustainability and inability to live harmoniously on this planet. The overpopulation problem might just a symptom of humanity’s fundamental unsustainability and the inevitability of human population shoot, crash, die off and extinction.
I don’t know what the number may be. A global population of a few thousand will still wreck their environment, that’s what baboon brains do, but I don’t think they could drive other lifeforms to extinction or destroy the global habitat.
Nothing better than a laugh a minute.
Republican women are going to pay dearly for their stupidity.
Hope all obstetricians leave Red States. Deplorable Rep/Con women will have to travel just like women have to for abortions.
Karma’s a bitch! My side are splitting from the willful ignorance.
Doctors simply need to refuse to treat Republican women, saying their personal bias could prevent them from doing no harm, so they can’t treat Rep/Cons.
The stupidity virus can be devastating. Voting against one’s best interest can be worse.
Random Cool Stuff. said:
Here is a nice quote for you to read:
“”Oil-based agriculture is primarily responsible for the world’s population exploding from 1.5 billion at the middle of the 19th century to 6.4 billion at the beginning of the 21st. As oil production went up, so did food production. As food production went up, so did the population. As the population went up, the demand for food went up, which increased the demand for oil. Put simply, the end of cheap oil means end of oil-powered agriculture, which means the end of cheap food which means the end of billions of lives. “”
And that the day of reckoning is now upon us.
I wonder who held a gun to the Clever Apes’ head to make it place itself in the position it is in today? Actions have consequences even under duress. I can’t stop laughing at the willful ignorance. Aliens visit this rock just for the clown show.
Stand up comedy on Planet Earth everyday, now appearing, the
Random Cool Stuff. said:
Sorry to tell you, but it is too much late to do anything to mitigate–let alone prevent–complete collapse of industrial civilization and NTHE. The only thing that could potentially prevent the complete extinction of humanity was deindustrialization starting several decades ago. Instead, even today, we have BAU continuing under the false pretense that “smart” growth, “renewable” energies and AI technology will supposedly keep BAU (aka the myth of technological “progress”) in place forever. Of course, not even deindustrialization will not save us…because even if deindustrialization could happen, it would not fix the root of the problem…which is that humanity is now 100% dependent on agriculture…because our global population is much too large to be sustainably supported via hunting and gathering. Global agriculture was doomed to fail eventually…and fossil fuels simply delayed its failure by a couple of decades, while extending human population growth for a bit longer until NTHE becomes unavoidable. And it is already unavoidable at this point.
CIC begins with it’s hand in one’s wallet? “A fool & his money are soon parted.”
How to lose anything over $250,000.
There will be a test on this first 5 minutes of video.Those with more than the insured amount will receive a grade of willful incompetence while losing their asses in an Glass-Steagall free banking system. One of a 1000 cuts by CIC.
My grandmother had 11 siblings, as a child I heard the stories of living in a depression. There was a saying; if one had a 50 cent piece they were the richest person in town. Those in the family that farmed sent food by train to their extended families that lived in the city. Not to worry, smartphones will save monkey minds. Just order overpriced food online. I can’t wait to see Americans in soup lines. Wait! We have already seen idiots waiting in cars, in long lines, to pick up free food. What’s the carbon footprint of idling cars & sitting in traffic to get to the free food handout. City dwellers might be in for hard times. The suburbs won’t have it easier.
Hope everyone enjoys the suffering of their loved ones, for this is what they chose, deregulation & money over loved ones.
Random Cool Stuff. said:
The essence of the question is simple…what is something you really NEED as opposed to merely WANT? Unfortunately, in our society, the things people really NEED are non-existent. Like clean air, clean water, fertile soils, healthy food and good community. What we are given is a whole bunch of stuff that nobody really needs…like a whole bunch of junk food, polluted air, polluted waters, degraded soils, and a atomized/competitive/socially-stratified society. What we need is completely gone. What we GET is way too much of what is objectively bad for the world. But wait, they are producing video games, anime and Hollywood sitcoms/movies at an ever-faster pace…you really “need” that stuff, am I right? Actually, we don’t need that shit, yet we are given too much of that shit.
Random Cool Stuff. said:
Those social “activists”–like Greta Thunberg and Bill McKibben–are a complete joke, TBH. Really, nothing is done to challenge the status quo. Maybe, it is because those social activists are just “controlled opposition”? They might just be paid by the elites to pretend to “protest” against corporations…when in fact, they are just there to give the masses the illusion of free speech. Don’t bother with social activism. It is COMPLETELY pointless when it is all just CONTROLLED OPPOSITION. The only purpose of such phony social activism is that it serves to preserve the status quo, while giving the masses the illusion that they are actually “saving” the world. It is all really just a sham. Social activism is, more or less, pointless when you realize that human extinction is unavoidable at this point.
” People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage.” –
John Kenneth Galbraith
When people “lose it” the rich elites just might get to enjoy their loved ones’ destruction. Flaunting one’s advantage is not an virtue. The poor know where the rich elites, be staying. 😉
Russia has spoken about nuclear war several times recently.
Let me get their attention by going warmongering military industrial complex. Hey Russia! If you want to go there ,it won’t be a problem. We used nuclear weapons not once but twice in Japan. Do you think that running your mouths will hinder us from using nuclear weapons again. We will hit your nuclear facilities with nuclear weapons. Don’t make us M.A.D. – Mutually Assured Destruction. I’m announcing my candidacy for Pres. in 2024, Def Con 5 immediately after swearing in ceremony. Ain’t skeered to protect America from Communism. Are you listening China?
Nothing like a good nuclear clusterfuck.
I really told them! 😉
I not afraid of NTHE, I’m dying laughing. Goes around, comes around hilarity.
I’ve got to see the 8 page list of offensive passages. Let’s see if this goes to every state that passed this type of law.
Random Cool Stuff. said:
Human extinction is not happening because of lack of human ingenuity. Nor is it happening because of lack of people reproducing. It is happening because humans are just clever enough to invent technologies to exploit an abundant (but ultimately finite and nonrenewable) resource reserves to expand their population to an absolutely overwhelming number. And then, when the resources are completely exhausted, the global human population crashes in a mass, Malthusian die-off leading to human extinction. The fact that the governments are vehemently denying peak oil (and resource depletion in general) is more than sufficient proof that there is nothing that can replace fossil fuels and the plethora of other nonrenewable and finite resources exploited by human beings. And that industrial civilization (and humanity in general) is living off of burrowed time that is rapidly running out. The human BREEDERS are the primary problem. And their offspring (and possibly the parents, too) will eventually realize that they are gonna go extinct from human overpopulation when collapse of industrial civilization and NTHE does finally happen.
“And their offspring (and possibly the parents, too) will eventually realize that they are gonna go extinct from human overpopulation when collapse of industrial civilization and NTHE does finally happen.”
I’m patiently waiting, it might not be long, until the happy talkers realize that the grim reaper is on their doorstep.
The weeping & gnashing of teeth on TV & the internet is going to be properly due, ‘You might get what you deserve.’, karma for their self-absorbed, narcissistic, destruction of their only habitat.
Those that are not Doomers, are Happy Talkers that will deny & misdirect whenever possible.