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American Empire, China Ghost Cities, Climate Change, Decline of Detroit, Ecological Overshoot, Economic Collapse, Fiat Money, Greece, Industrial Revolution, Infinite Growth Paradigm, Money = Energy, Norman Pagett, Overpopulation, Peak Oil, Roman Empire, Saudi Arabia Skyscraper Bubble, Sectarianism, The End of More
Author: Norman Pagett (The End of More)
While we might think of money as supporting our economy, only energy can support the solvency of a nation, and only surplus energy can fulfill the aspirations of its rulers and the desires of its citizens. Until the advent of the industrial revolution, and in particular the universal availability of cheap oil, that energy could only come from territory that could produce sufficient food and other essentials for any level of civilized living. We might ‘demand’ that our leaders provide new hospitals, schools, roads and all the other things that make life comfortable, but without the necessary surplus energy to do it, it is impossible. No political posturing or promises or taxation can change that.
Most deny it, but we live in an energy economy, not a money economy. Without the continually increasing forward thrust of energy input, no economy can exist in the context that we have become used to.
Not just the Greeks, but those charged with governing every nation on Earth, have lost sight of the fundamental law of collective survival: if a nation doesn’t produce enough indigenous surplus energy to support the demands of its people, they must beg, buy, borrow or steal it from somewhere else, or face eventual collapse and starvation until their numbers reach a sustainable level.
Our lifestyle support system has been based on that premise since prehistory. Nomadic tribesmen, probably in the region of present day Iraq, had the bright idea of fixing borders around land, then growing their food supply instead of chasing after it. Fences and borders meant land could be owned and given value that could be measured in energy terms.
What we know as civilization is based on that simple concept. Land and its potential energy became capital, and our genetic forces ensured it was exploited to the full. Primitive farmers knew nothing of calorific values, or capitalism; only that too little food meant starvation, sufficient food averted famines, and surplus food offered prosperity. No one wanted to starve, few were content with sufficient, so the drive for surplus became relentless. It still is; only the scale has changed, it has become the profit motive in everything we do. Everybody wants a payrise, few refuse one. We are all capitalists, we differ only by a matter of scale.
Enclosed land needed strong control and the will to fight for it. Strength prevailed while weakness went under as resource competition ebbed and flowed across tribal territories. If land produced enough spare food and other necessary commodities, it was possible to equip and feed an army, and use it to occupy more territory. In that way collective energy could rapidly roll up small territories into a nation or an empire, create warlords and kings, and give credence to gods who were invariably on the winning side.
Possession of land and what it produces is the hidden support of what we now understand as our economy and the viability of our infrastructure. Conflict makes that economy even more profitable and one that is built on power and aggression provides the potential for endless resource warfare, whether bloody or political. In 1941 Germany invaded Greece using the bloody version. In 2015 Greece is experiencing the political version. As a small weak country Greece lacks the resource strength to resist.
The more land that could be held and ruled, the more food-energy could be produced. Surplus energy that came in the form of meat and grain and timber was too big to carry around, so tokens of gold and silver became an accepted measure of energy value.
Different civilisations arose and used different monetary systems, but all broadly followed the pattern we are locked into now: those who controlled the land controlled the energy that supported the prevalent economy, whether primitive or sophisticated, warlike or peaceful. With sufficient surplus and a big enough labour force held in some kind of serfdom or dependency, tokenized energy could be diverted to pay for the construction of cities, castles and cathedrals. While the labour of men to build them, the allegiance of soldiers to guard them, and the faith of priests to pray over them might be bought with gold and silver, the system depended on a supply of food and basic commodities well above subsistence level, ultimately provided by the heat of the sun. That’s why the great early civilisations and empires began in the warm tropical and sub tropical regions of the world. And why Eskimos did not field armies, build cities, or inflict the hysteria of mass religion on themselves; they didn’t get enough sunshine to provide the energy resources.
That gave rise to the factors we still live with today: warm productive stable land sustains a bigger healthier population. People eat and procreate, need more sustenance, and demand that their leaders provide it, so the thrust of constant expansion is inevitable in order to feed them. This was as true for small farming settlements between the Tigris and the Euphrates, as it was for the Roman Empire. It was the force that drove the European industrial powers outwards to carve up Africa, the Americas and the Far East to give a privileged section of humanity a prosperity that has been unique in our history. Those of us who enjoy those privileges have lost sight of where they came from, and how fragile they are.
Consequently we are still locked into the same energy-hungry capitalist dynamic, only now we believe that money has not only been substituted for the energy that created it, it has replaced it. In most people’s minds, the illusion of money has supplanted tangible, hard resources. Energy is no longer regarded as necessary to sustain prosperity; we can print it, or better still, make it appear electronically.
Who needs oil? Keynesian economics says that perpetual growth will come through passing bits of coloured paper or plastic from hand to hand at an ever-faster rate.
The leaders of every advanced industrial nation are driven to promise this kind of ‘growth’ to their people, for no better reason than because there has always been growth, so our future will be growth driven too; they and we know no other way. We believe the lie that money itself has taken on an intrinsic worth of its own.
The Greeks fiddled their accounts, joined the EU and accepted the common currency of the Euro and the collective certainty of the money-driven nature of growth, at a time when oil was $25 a barrel. With oil so cheap, any concern about indigenous energy sources was irrelevant. They had a world class (oil dependent) shipbuilding and sea transport industry, and (oil dependent) tourism was booming. In the late 90s, when oil had fallen to $18 a barrel, they borrowed $11 billion to buy still more energy to burn in order to stage the 2004 Olympic games. Greek prosperity depended on infinite supplies of hydrocarbon fuel, but they followed the common belief in infinite money.
When the price of oil peaked in 2008, the crash was inevitable. The certainty that money represented wealth was destroyed by the price of oil, but they borrowed billions more to try to prove it hadn’t. Any reason was better than reality: that you can’t run a cheap energy economy on expensive energy.
The latest clutch of Greek politicos got themselves voted into office because they told the Greek people what they wanted to hear: that prosperity could be voted into office, as if the availability of indigenous energy within their borders was a matter of political choice. Alexis Tsipras believed the Keynesian fantasy and convinced himself that borrowed money put into endless circulation will generate wealth and ‘growth’. $11 billion spent on the now derelict Olympic stadium should have served as a warning, but it didn’t.
More ‘bailouts’ have been agreed; the Greeks will now settle back into their soporific lifestyle and the headline writers will find something more newsworthy. But the hammer of reality has only been lifted temporarily from the anvil of their economy. In a year or so, when the Greeks have spent their latest loan, it will crash down again, harder.
The Greeks are not money-bankrupt, they are energy-bankrupt.
But so is every other nation, to a greater or lesser degree. Saudi Arabia is in a worse state of energy bankruptcy than the poverty stricken Greeks, they just don’t know it yet.
A century ago, Greece had a population of around 5 million, and had only partially freed itself from control by the Ottoman Empire. Despite wars, revolution, hyperinflation and foreign occupation during the 20th century, it remained poor but largely self sufficient as a pastoral country. During that period, the population doubled, due in a large extent to reclaiming Turkish held territories in the early 20th century. In a worst-case scenario, if Greece defaults on its debts, and drops out of the EU and the European currency, 11 million Greeks will be left to feed themselves at a very basic level. They will have no choice but to fall back on a more primitive lifestyle, forgo the luxuries bought by oil consumption and live on the energy sources within their own borders. When they do that, their energy bankruptcy will disappear.
100 years ago, Arabia had a population of 1.5 million, and was also a region of the Ottoman Empire. The term Saudi had not been prefixed to it and the Gulf States did not exist. Their people were basically nomadic, with no concept of national identity, or civilization approaching the Greek level. Though under nominal control of the Turks, they were effectively protected by their hostile desert. Living was primitive, but like the Greeks, self sufficient on their terms.
Then in 1938 oil was found in Arabia, now the population is over 30 million. The current excesses of Saudi Arabia are too familiar to need recounting here. We’ve all watched the Saudis use their oil to build unsustainable cities in deserts, where previously there had been none. They have used their oil to suck finite water out of aquifers and desalinate seawater to maintain the fantasy of endless prosperity. They buy in every conceivable luxury and try to outdo each other with meaningless towers of vanity that they see as expressions of wealth and status. They build because they can, believing the economic nonsense that spending energy-based tokens, i.e. money, creates profit and wealth. Just like the vanity of the Greek Olympic venues, the glittering towers of Riyadh and Mecca and Jeddah are seen as a source of commercial prosperity that will deliver and provide cashflow long after the oilflow has dried up.
As the Greeks discovered when the energy flow stopped going into their arenas, they began to disintegrate. Without constant energy input, money embedded in concrete, glass and steel can only show a return if more money (energy) is constantly added to resist the ultimate certainty of entropy. No one has pointed out that while Saudi towers may be designed to last 100 years, the oil-energy that supports them will run out in less than 30, maybe as few as 20 years. (It has been suggested that Saudi might become an oil importer by 2030, though exactly where the imported oil will come from, or how it might be paid for, is not clear). Then the towers will start to fall apart just as the Saudi economy will fall apart because the oil-energy they use to fuel such vanities is borrowed from their own future. And they will have no means of repaying it; their creditors are not foreign bankers, but their own young and dispossessed. They will violently reject the certainty of a life as goat herders and camel traders if only for the reason that they wouldn’t know how.
Just like the Greeks they will demand that the lifestyle they know carries on unimpeded by the reality of energy shortage. They will try to borrow money to maintain it, with the same result. Bankruptcy on the Saudi scale will make the Greek version look like a small bank overdraft. Unlike Greece, the desert is hostile to human life at the current Saudi density, and needs constant input of food, water and air conditioning to survive 50o C summer heat.
11 million Greeks can feed themselves from their own land. 30 or 40 million Saudis are going to have to face the brutal truth that they can’t. The Saudis currently produce about 10 million barrels of oil a day, and they have to use one third of that to keep themselves alive and in the luxury they think they need. They have created an artificial existence entirely dependent on trading oil for food, and face a future of actual starvation, because there will not be sufficient surplus food energy available anywhere in the world to prevent it once the oil has gone. At current rates of growth their population is projected to reach 60 million by 2050 so between now and then a sudden and catastrophic end to the oil-excess is certain. That life-subsidy of one barrel of oil in three will rapidly disappear, with Saudi using constantly depleting oil to buy food at constantly increasing prices in a race to stay alive. Unemployable young men face a non-future where their luxurious privileges are stripped away by forces beyond their control and understanding. With the oilwells sucked dry, the US fleet will sail away from Bahrain, and discontent will manifest itself into riot. In perhaps only 10 or 15 years, Saudi Arabia as a viable nation will not have sufficient indigenous energy to prevent collapse. There will be nowhere to buy, beg, borrow or steal it from, and no oil for export. Which is where Greece is right now.
Since the oilwealth kicked in and the population exploded, Saudi now has a youth bulge in their population. 37% are under 14, 51% are under 25. Already the unemployment rate in the 16 to 29 age range is reported as 29%, possibly much higher. Of those with graduate level jobs, most have been absorbed by the public sector, with Shias being actively discriminated against by the dominant Sunnis. Jobs requiring technical skills are filled by foreign workers. Effectively this means that virtually all wages and unemployment benefits are paid out of oil revenues. This is where violent unrest will come from when the oil flow begins to dry up. Already Saudi has paid out $billions in freebies to pacify their unemployable young men, while maintaining the unreality of gasoline at 16c a liter, effectively using oil to subsidise itself.
With its oil wealth diminishing, Saudi is a ticking time bomb, split by religious factions and sectarianism, confined by repression at a medieval level and surrounded by religious zealots who see infidel industry being supported by the holy oil that rightfully belongs in the land of the prophet. Compared to that, Greece is an oasis of tranquility.
For a different energy/economy collapse scenario, move on to China.
There, energy is being locked into unusable real estate on a truly colossal scale, concentrated on building cities in places where there are no people to live in them. City after city is being constructed right across the country, creating an illusion of ‘Gross Domestic Product’, where officials can only achieve recognition by the rate at which infrastructure is built. A building without people in it is disregarded as irrelevant. 6 million people enter the Chinese job market every year. Construction creates employment, GDP means everything and urbanization targets must be reached.
Employment is the biggest thing for well-being. The government must not slacken on this for one moment … For us, stable growth is mainly for the sake of maintaining employment. Prime Minister Li Keqiang, November 2013
If an apartment block or shopping mall costs $10 million to build, then that is the ‘value’ of the building on the ledger of national prosperity. If it stands empty for years, the ‘value’ is somehow retained. In China, the motivation is different to that in Saudi Arabia or Greece, but there is the same determination to spend money on projects that are intended to deliver infinite commercial prosperity based on the imagined value of the building itself.
They are building dozens of fully functioning cities on the assumption that workers will show up to fill them. But of course those workers will need food as well as ongoing and permanent employment, which isn’t going to be there, so the ghost cities will not have the means to exist. The cities are where people are supposed to live, the countryside is where food is supposed to be produced.
But both need vast quantities of oil to function. At the current rate of growth of around 8% a year, by 2035 China will (in theory) be using the same volume of oil currently consumed in the world now. That won’t happen of course, because the world oil supply is the same for China as it is for Saudi Arabia, twenty years, maybe much less, no matter how much they buy in and hoard. The Chinese desperation for oil will become critical, just as Saudi exports begin to become unavailable. As supply tightens, so conflict over it will increase, thus restricting supply still further until conflict brings oil production to a virtual standstill. But the Chinese ‘ghost cities’, just like Saudi towers, are intended to last a hundred years.
The figures don’t add up; it’s arithmetic too frightening for most to contemplate. China is dependent on its ever increasing production system to generate new jobs. That drives suicidal pollution and insatiable resource consumption because like capitalist governments everywhere, growth must be prioritized over the environment. Growth without oil is impossible so while the ghost cities of China have a value according to government statistics, they produce nothing; and until they do, will have no value at all. Even if some workers do manage to occupy parts of the ghost cities, without oil there won’t be sufficient power to keep them functioning. Under the inflexible second law of thermodynamics, without constant energy input, entropy takes over and buildings begin to deteriorate from the moment they are completed.
Detroit has followed a different path to bankruptcy.
Ruins at the abandoned Packard Automotive Plant (September 4, 2013 in Detroit, Michigan) serve as canvas for graffiti artists. 78,000 abandoned buildings are strewn across Detroit’s 142 square miles.
Whatever the causes of Detroit’s demise, and there can be said to be many, the overall picture is one of declining energy input. People moved out and no longer spent money on making the city a viable entity. The car plants closed, removing the need for people to be there, the loss of inhabitants removed their collective energy, and the city began to fall apart. The result is unequivocal: remove energy input, and any artifice declines, decays and collapses at an accelerating rate.
Detroit is a bankrupt microcosm of the USA: a nation of 330 million people built entirely on the capitalist system needing infinite expansion, drawing on finite energy borrowed from a future that is unsustainable.
America differs little from the disaster scenarios of Saudi Arabia and China. Finite water is being relentlessly pumped out of depleting aquifers, and finite hydrocarbon is being turned into fertilizer to produce food while cities are forced to grow in hostile deserts. The products of Detroit and cheap fuel allowed suburban sprawl to spread 50 miles out from city hubs across the nation because food and water could be delivered, sewage disposed of and climate altered to personal taste. Declining oil supply will render suburbia hostile to modern living as we know it; the local environment may look different, but the effect on human existence will be the same as the excesses of Saudi or China.
Saudi Arabia, China and America are examples of what our future is going to be. But every nation is promising itself a prosperous future while borrowing from it at an ever-increasing rate, making certain that it cannot exist.
The input of oil into national economics has not exempted humanity from the laws of physics. The trappings of civilization have not altered our fundamental rule of existence: whether your station in life is humble or exalted, if you don’t produce food from the earth on a personal basis, your life depends on someone, no matter how many stages removed, converting sunlight into food on your behalf. Not only that, it must be sold at a price you can afford within a stable environment. Essentially, civilization is just that. Remove it and most will starve while those with enough personal resilience will have no option but to revert to hunter gathering or even scavenging, because what we call civilization is as fragile as the oil it sits on. For the millions of homeless people living on the streets in our ‘civilised’ cities, civilization is over. For them there is little hope of a return to prosperity, with a good job, a warm home and security.
History shows that a radically destabilized environment results in war, famine, disease and death. Any one of those four can and will exacerbate the other three.
Our civilization is becoming increasingly unstable, and right now the four horsemen are getting restless.
In one hundred years time, would you prefer to be living in the United States, China, Saudi Arabia…..or Greece?








Posted this on Reddit:
Nate Hagens on why growing the economy while divesting from fossil fuels is an impossibility. We’re in a “global deflationary depression”
The following are comments on the google discussion group America 2.0 from energy/economy analyst Nate Hagens in response to Robert Scribbler’s recent post entitled Climate Change Changes Everything — Massive Capital Flight From Fossil Fuels Now Under Way.
Jay [Hanson],
I suspect you’ll agree this post is horribly naive. Scribbler gets the [climate] science right, but the systems analysis/economics wrong. The reason Arch coal and other energy firms have enterprise values heading south isn’t because of divestment but because of global deflationary depression – started by a continual money machine that creates principal out of thin air but not interest – and the interest (and eventually principal) has to be serviced and paid back with growth based on energy and non-renewable resources flows, which (still) cheap fossil co-workers account for 90%+ of the planetary labor force.
“investors by the droves are now engaged in removing their assets from fossil fuel based companies.”
Unless they also change their lifestyles ‘by the droves’ it won’ matter one bit.
I gave a talk locally last week to the Citizen Climate Lobby, following James Hansen. Hansen is championing a ‘fee and dividend’, where carbon is taxed and the revenue is then given to the poor (or other areas of society – not the government). I paste below what I wrote to some friends after my talk:
Though debating Fee and Dividend was a small % of the total event, I thought I’d lay out the logic I presented to see what I missed, or if you all disagree or agree or other.
Here is their logic/detail on Fee and Dividend… https://citizensclimatelobby.org/remi-report/#Overview
My main points:
1) Im in favor of energy being more expensive as a transition to a different type of economic system, but taxing carbon by saying it will grow our economies is naive, ignorant and poses systemic risk.
2) Fee and dividend conflate the dollar value of carbon and the work value of carbon. When we tax say gasoline $1 and give that $1 to say, the poor, this is claimed by CCL to be ‘revenue neutral’ and the behaviors shift somehow so that the economies grow. This econometric-based analysis ignores the biophysical aspect of energy inputs. E.g. if we take 1 dollar of energy out of the economy and transfer it, we also are taking 90-100$ worth of ‘work’ done by that gasoline. So the dollars are the same, but the work is (much) less. Economies usually contract using this math, not grow.
3) the economy is a heat engine, requiring 7.1 milliwatts per $ (constant over time)http://www.inscc.utah.edu/~tgarrett/Economics/Physics_of_the_economy.html, but we now live in a world where financial claims far outweigh the natural resource and energy ability to service them. Any company or nation that reduces energy use (that can’t print their own currency) will be at severe disadvantage. 90% of global work force is carbon co-workers. We want to grow the economy but fire these workers. It doesnt make any sense.
4) If we use $1 less of carbon, and give that $1 to someone who didn’t drive or use air conditioning etc., they will go spend that $ at a coffeeshop, at WalMart, at an amusement park, etc. There are extremely few activities in our world that are ‘carbon free’. Carbon free in our modern world is almost an oxymoron.
5) To distribute carbon fees as dividends to the poor as a combinatory climate mitigation and wealth inequality tool, risks a large backfire. The lowest 2 quintiles of our society spend 100% of their income. The top 5% spend 7% of their income. In a world with depleting oil fields (not 1 year view but 10 year view), a carbon fee with the money going to the poor quickly rebounds as a large call on more oil/gas/consumption as we are taking abstract wealth (digits in bank) and having them become an immediate call on natural resources.
6) British Columbia carbon tax is an excellent case study on why policy framed around climate action won’t ever work (in my opinion of course). Annual emissions declined from 2005-2013 but are now projected to significantly increase through 2020. This is happening because govt didn’t stick to the cost of accelerating carbon above $35 a ton, plus the carbon neutral projects were a colossal failure because developers just got $$ to develop property they would already destroy but just at a slower rate thanks to the carbon tax. And all this happened without accounting for the increase in carbon exported through BC through coal and shale oil.
7) As long as we optimize dollars (as in a market system), the dissipative structure that is the global economy will just get larger. So fee and dividend is just a feel good mechanism to shift where the heavy lifting is done. Arranging deck chairs without reducing emissions. And definitely without reducing emissions at the levels needed.http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21569039-europes-energy-policy-delivers-worst-all-possible-worlds-unwelcome-renaissance
8) As long as there are one or more countries that don’t tax carbon, (and as long as goods that are made with coal are not subject to a special tax), then adding the carbon tax will tend to move manufacturing toward countries without such a tax. This will increase the advantage that these countries already have because of the use of low-priced coal in manufacturing and home heating. (Wages can be less with coal, too!)
9) The dividend likely increases demand for products from these countries, because of the mix of products poor people buy.
My talk was well received but this aspect of it was very unpopular as I hit a lot of emotional buttons on people who are already fully committed to fee and dividend outreach and activism. I suspect leisure is a great supporter of virtue and when the ‘economy is going south or souther’, there will be some switching of teams. I hope to be wrong about that as I do think the sapient thing is for energy [prices] to be gradually become much more expensive, in an accelerating manner.
Nate
My comment: Nice summation Nate. Fossil fuels are a dirty word on Scribbler’s site. Try commenting about their importance to the economy and the modern world on his site and you will be censored and banned from further commenting. He believes renewables can replace all fossil fuels without drastically changing our way of life. Many prominent climate scientists believe that we can innovate our way out of this mess as well. This is the major disconnect preventing any substantive discussion on root causes for human overshoot and the inevitable collapse to follow.
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Good job, Norman, Xraymike, Jay, Nate. I wonder if those climate scientists really truly believe we can innovate our way out or if they, like so many others, are just clinging to the only thing left?
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I’m going to put you up on this ‘principal is created but interest isn’t’ myth. Banks create money whenever they lend money ie the principal – correct. However they also create money when ever they pay dividends, pay for goods and services, pay salaries and bonuses, buy assets, make purchases etc. This is where the interest money comes from. You don’t get your banking for free !
The growth imperative is not inherent in our monetary system but lays deep inside ourselves.
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“In one hundred years time, would you prefer to be living in the United States, China, Saudi Arabia…..or Greece?”
None of the above.
ALASKA. The Last Great Frontier.
RE
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At the rate the last great frontier is burning and melting it should only be a decade or two before it is nothing but an ash heap floating on a quagmire of methane infused perma-slosh. Course living on the frontier means Alaskans will be the very first to lose their JIT support system. I just don’t see the federal Goobermint giving a shit about a state whose infrastructure is already being swallowed up by fires, deluge, mudslides, avalanches and a melting shifting landscape. What little oil or minerals remain are soon not going to be economical to attempt to extract and nobody’s going to fix the infrastructure – that’s a state wide bridge to nowhere. Sounds great.
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Restrained laugh. 😁
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Unrestrained laugh (<8
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That’s RE for you, Hopium, Hopium, Hopium. I don’t go to the Doomstead Diner site and wonder how that project of creating those self contained affordable communities around the world is going.
Even if Alaska is the place to be; from his behavior when he interacts with others I’d prefer to take Nembutal than have to deal with old RE and his pals.
Then there’s that group planning on relocating to “Belize”; people from NBL you’ll see they detest patriarchy and claim it’s going to be egalitarian; however the person who purchased the land gets final say on everything. Most egregious and as far as I know not a single person is objecting to this “leadership”. Then, if and when her offspring (3 no less) decide they’ve had it the USA (and can still get to the Southern Hemisphere) they get a free pass into the community and no one can object. So all those who have done the back breaking work really have no voice.
I ask, “Where is the love?” McPherson is flying around the world claiming that it’s all we have left. I ask, “What is really the difference in how this community is being run and the world they are “escaping” from? Who will be the king and queen of that little tribe and who will pay homage to these “rulers”? But, hey as long as you have the price of admission you get to enter, even if you have no skills to contribute, and if you have skills to contribute, but no cash well there’s always Soylent Green.
If people haven’t read Melodie Beattie’s “Codependent No More” just use the Belize situation as a case study in observing the way a codependent relationship manifests itself and can be a life threatening situation to others. Be a critical thinker. Ask the questions no one else will as it might just save your life.
As case in point look at one Carolyn Baker. Ask her why she decided joining that Marshall Vian Summer’s cult/church/ “The Greater Community”? It’s stunning that a person that “seems” to have a clear picture of the situation becomes part of a group (at least for a time when she relocated to Boulder) that believes and is waiting for word and actions from an alien (as in other planets) which will save us. How could Baker gravitate towards this nonsense of believing in alien messages being delivered by a “special” leader much like the way priests were the ones to receive the word of god while having a little child under the skirt (and still doing it today, see films by Amy Berg and Kirby Dick) and pocketing tons and tons of cash and gold?
It appears that most, if not all of the communities don’t understand the importance of learning governance, and many other social skills such as Sociocracy, conflict resolution, etc., etc. Unfortunately people (currently a small percentage) are rushing towards a cliff out of sheer panic and not understanding it takes years to get these ideas in play. Sadly, people are rationalizing why they have to get out now and I’ve been hearing these stories for over a decade.
One woman from Jersey claims she does it out of love for her 10 year old son. She’ already made two mistakes, one of which could have cost both of them their lives, yet she is like an alcoholic who makes a bargain when the situation looks bad and then once the crisis is over they revert back to gulping down their 120 proof beverage.
And finally there is one Robert Calligan and his postings on Reddit. Interesting stuff overall (and I agree with 95 percent of it), but then it’s like hitting the wall when it appears that he’s a believer in Nuclear and Thorium solving our energy problems. Now, I’ve asked for clarification a couple of times, but he’s silent, except to keep posting those dam lists, and so I move him off to the edges if he really thinks giving us more energy will do anything but cause more destruction. But to really believe in Thorium reactors after seeing how well all the other promises of a new energy marvel have panned out over the 20th century is just too much to bear.
But, then Calligan is well situated on a piece of land in the Canadian wilderness (I believe) and his family will be part of the 500,000 making it through the funnel (along with good old Druid JMG and Sarah) and the town they live in along with Oren and the folks at 4 Quarters Retreat Center. It seems that everyone I talk to are certain they will mange to make it through to the other side and thrive. When did I miss getting the memo on this so I could have my place in Eden?
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Awesome. Very, very, very few, if any at all will survive for long. I know we will fail to due our energy demands. But, if nuclear power is good enough for James Hansen, it’s good enough for me. If carbon tax dividends are good enough for James Hansen, they’re good enough for me, albeit, denominated in a new world e-currency. These are hypothetical “solutions” and not reality. Hope is what drives survival. I do not believe communes will survive the end game, just prolong their survival chances temporarily. I prepare for the worse, hope for the best and expect neither to succeed.
I have been a survivalist since I was 18 years old, I’m now 57. My goals are to grow opium, pot, mushrooms, alcohol and food. I buy and store noodles for hard times. I am going to raise rabbits for food because they only eat grass and leaves. My garden is growing. Soon, I’ll put more topsoil on my field.
Survival means fit in or fit out. Communities matter, much as I am a loner. Food. Water. Drugs. One dollar is only 10 milliwatts in 2005 dollars. People don’t grow their own food because it means work. Working towards survival is priceless. I am only a distant early warning.
All carbon, whether trees, coal, oil, plankton etc. is a storage medium for diffuse, low-quality trickle charged solar power. We consume earth’s energy battery so fast that our atmosphere will change beyond all recognition. If/when the magnetic pole shift picks up, we could have several magnetic poles swirling around the earth for up to a thousand years. These poles will allow solar radiation to fry anything that lives on the surface. When the trees are gone, our earth will eventually embrace the cold vacuum of space for the first time in billions of years. It was magnetic pole shift that caused mars’ atmosphere to literally blow away into space. Earth’s gravity is too strong for that. Talk about your confluence of crises.
I am not a McPherson “fan”, he is the conduit for my message. But, as egomaniacal death-cult overlords go, he’s not so bad.
My wife tried mushrooms for the first time and loved it. The dance of light and dark goes on up here in Canuckistan. I looked up crazy in the dictionary 3 times, and still it’s the same.
Blinky Winky Links
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That was a brilliant breakdown of our predicament. As you point out, modern civilization, with its 7.3 billion humans, is hopelessly dependent on the energy created by burning fossil fuels. The same energy source that is rapidly running out and leaving us with a badly compromised environment.
I’d like to see a fee-and-dividend approach instituted in an attempt at slowing CO2 emissions. However, If I’m being totally honest with myself, I think the jig is up. Between climate change, overpopulation, resource depletion, and the way humans are apt to respond to these factors, there’s slim prospects for a ‘soft landing.’
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Slowing CO2 emissions will not reduce the total CO2 emitted, hence will have no effect on climate change. Climate change depends on the total emitted, not on the rate that it is emitted.
All our fossil energy stores will be burnt eventually, irrespective on whether we do it slowly or fast. Billions of people living in poverty who want the same living standards as us will demand that we do. It is like being stuck in the middle of an ocean in a small dingy surrounded by thousands of drowning people trying to get on board.
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Reblogged this on Industrial Civilization – A Cult of Death.
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Coal Blackout
01. The underground coal market in China and India with unaccounted emissions.
02. Petroleum coke is burnt in China.
03. Fracked natural gas is now burnt instead of coal with no real emissions reduction.
04. Nuclear power is gang=busters in China.
05. Wood is substituted for coal and called bio-fuel.
06. Half the Renewable Power in Europe is from burning imported wood.
07. Palm oil and soy oil is burned in cars in Europe.
08. We cannot do solar-wind power AND reduce emissions.
09. It takes 10X as much wind-solar power to close 1 fossil fuel power plant.
10. It still takes 1 ton of coal to make 6 solar panels.
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“10. It still takes 1 ton of coal to make 6 solar panels.”
That may be true but the 6 solar panels give back the energy equivalent of 5 (my estimate) tons of coal back. Hence the fossil energy in the coal has been extended by a factor of 5.
That has to be worthwhile!
The key question is how we use this energy extension. We either voluntarily reduce the world population to its long term carrying capacity – highly unlikely; or we increase our overshoot of our long term carrying capacity – highly likely.
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That’s a common mistake.
It might take the energy value of one ton of coal to make 6 solar panels
but solar panels do not give the same type of energy back in return.
They return only electricity—which isn’t fossil energy, so doesn’t extend the coal.
Whereas with a ton of coal you can make all kinds of industrial products.
I dont know the mathematics of it, but I’m certain you couldnt produce the same steam power with 6 solar panels on top of a locomotive as a ton of coal in its boiler.
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more, more
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I didn’t mention energy density. The energy density is indeed lower and it is unlikely that ‘renewable’ energy will ever be able to renew itself. You will notice, Norman, that that I put inverted commons round the word renewable. I do this for a reason.
Just because ‘renewables’ can’t renew themselves doesn’t mean the energy they produce is not useful in other ways. You can still warm your home with it, use it for lighting, cook with it etc. This frees fossil energy to do things that fossil energy can only do. You can’t deny this.
‘Renewables’ are fossil energy extenders. For every unit of energy you put in to making them you get 5 (or whatever) of energy out.
We can use this extension to voluntarily reduce population sizes to the long term carrying capacities of the land and so prepare for when fossil energy is all used up and to do so in a less painful manor than if we made no preparations at all . This is very, very unlikely, of course, for reasons that you eloquently state in your articles but, nether the less is theoretically possible to do, if we had the collective will to do so.
Are pushing the nuclear power agenda here, Norman? Is that why you attack me when I mention ‘renewable’ energy ?
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I wouldn’t use the word ‘attack’ when discussing a different viewpoint.
I’m not aware of attacking anyone, particularly in forums like this. (Or anywhere else for that matter–life’s too short for that.
Though maybe it comes across that way
Words can take on unintentional meanings
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That’s the problem with the internet. You lose the benefit of face-to-face conversation with all the nuances in direct communication. Talking to others from across the world with only typed words to convey meaning leaves out a lot of information.
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We have many trillions of dollars worth of investment paper hungry to be fed. Right now they’re feeding them mostly more hot air. To be properly fed those investments are counting on developing fossil fuel reserves and eating them to get a return on investment. There is so much dopamine tied-up in dreams of eventual conversion of paper into the easy life, vacation homes, golden years, cruises, and so on, that people will demand that the coal be dug, the oil be pumped and the natural gas distributed, to make good on the “dreams”. No one is dreaming about a return to the old days of diggin’ taters, sweatin’ in the hot afternoon sun, and swattin’ flies in the kitchen. If the fossil fuels aren’t burned they’ll lose their investments. If the fossil fuels are burned they’ll lose their grandchildren. I think they’ll go for the dopamine reward now, it’s the way they’ve evolved and historically it kept them alive, when major externalities weren’t a consideration and they’re hardly a consideration now. The future (and the grandchildren) will take care of itself.
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Interesting analysis.
War became the favourite process of “farming” commodities:
(The Peak Of The Oil Wars – 11).
One problem with that form of war capitalism is that it creates feudalism, which is a feedback loop (American Feudalism – 6).
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There doesn’t seem to be much of an alternative to feudalism in some sense.
In the future we will need to eat, and in any community of any size, some will be stronger than others, and leaders will arise.
They will inevitably dominate the means of energy production, which will be food from land.
If a ‘lesser’ individual or group wants the benefit/protection of that land, then they will have to put themselves under the fiefdom of the one controlling it.
I know my thinking is very radical, but I see no alternative—I wish there was one.
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One forefather who wrote the Bill of Rights, during his career was a president, a congress member, a cabinet member, and a statesman.
He counselled against feudalism from a perspective of having “lived” to observe and study the European version.
His conclusion was to rebel, and to seek independence from feudalism, which is a child of war:
(The Greatest Source Of Power Toxins?, quoting James Madison). The historians are united in the reality that war started feudalism, not the other way around.
Feudalism is a social cancer, like imperialist capitalism, and will eat through any social walls in its way.
Even the powerful religions became vassals (American Feudalism – 2).
The big promise of feudalism, at the serf level, was a promise of “security.”
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While I can only agree with your basic premise, rebelling against a system you disagree with leaves three courses of action.
1..you resist it with violence
2. Go and live somewhere else
or 3 Put up with it.
Assuming you choose option 2…As did the Original colonists who left England in the 1600s.
They had so called ’empty land” in which to do it. They then, over the next 2 centuries or so, inflicted the same type of control on the native inhabitants.
Now you have the USA ”preserving its freedom in the midst of continual warfare”
which is much like Europe was for the previous 1000 years or so.
Problem with option 2 now is there’s no more empty spaces.
If there was, I venture to suggest that the scenario would repeat itself.
As I’ve pointed out, the function of the serf was to provide the muscle power to deliver food energy to whoever owned the land.—crude and basic, but that was always–and still is—the situation.
His secondary function was as cannon fodder when his lord and master decided to have a war.
I don’t think things change much.
Oh—and I forgot–to breed more serfs of course.
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End of More,
Sadly in my journey of the last 12 years this is exactly how it is playing out in many of the Intentional Communites that already exist so you are not being radical in anything, really you are just seeing the core situation.
A trip to the Communities Conference at Twin Oaks and a really attentive ear can confirm that your theory is a reality already in progress.
When the shit really hits the fan in the USA (that is when NYC residents can’t get food at Whole Foods or the Park Slope Food Coop and nothing comes out of their taps as is happening in CA let alone San Paulo) that is when those smug, arrogant, pretentious people walking around the city with their heads stuck in the their iPhones will be panic stricken and realize they need food and water more than the latest download. And they will do ANYTHING, ANYTHING to get that crumb of bread and drop of water.
I’ve learned about farming (small scale) over the last decade and when I mention this people still pat me on the bald head like I’m a little boy who should go off to the corner while the adults do something important like talk about the latest movie or celebrity. Grow food, how gauche.
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“the horsemen are getting restless” no mate, they are mounted and circling in the yard
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lol—you may be right at that
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I’ve been enjoying this series of videos:
Tales From The Green Valley Series
I just want to make clear, I am fully cognizant of the fact that what is not seen is the large crew employed by the TV producers off-screen to co-ordinate and facilitate every detail in order that it look good for the cameras. I therefore do NOT want to be mistaken as saying “hey, if they can do it then we all can!”
That wasn’t really the purpose of the series anyway. If it is taken for what it is, basically a made for TV equivalent of a children’s picture book, then in that light they do a decent job. Given some fertile land, a few healthy animals, a supply of fresh water, and a few imported “luxury” goods, it was in fact possible to live a decent self-sufficient life with the “technology” available 400 or so years ago.
Anyway, I’ve been seeing the occasional comment about industrial civilization collapsing to levels last seen a few hundred years ago, so I thought it might be interesting to some to see what that might actually look like. Or at least a reasonable approximation thereof.
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That’s an interesting series and i will watch just for the entertainment value.
Over a decade ago PBS ran a similar set of series with families being place in turn of the century England and the frontier west of the USA. Those series are available at your local library.
I used to believe we (meaning my life partner and I and others) could go back to this until I visually realized that what McKibben writes about us not being on the same physical planet as we were then is true (one of the few truths he says in public).
I’d also recommend watching the film Unforgiven by Clint Eastwood as he plays a farmer who is not succeeding to well and is forced to earn some cash as he’s fighting from losing his herd of pigs to pig fever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_House
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_House_%28TV_series%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_1900_House
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unforgiven
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What these ‘back to the frontier’ shows–articles–whatever–miss, is that they still put human beings as the dominant species on the planet.
We tried to put that delusion into practice for the last 200 years, and believed it for countless 000s of years before that.
The reality is of course that the dominant species use human beings as prairies.
Each of us carries billions of bacteria on our bodies. They don’t actually need us, if we weren’t around, they would find something else to graze on. On the other hand if they weren’t around, we couldn’t exist.
We’ve tried everything to kill them off, and failed. all they’ve done is mutate into new and more deadly forms and regrouped for a fresh attack.
Our antibiotic walls are crumbling.
We’ve made it easy for them by super cleanliness that has weakened our personal immune systems.
On that basis—who is in control and running the show on planet earth?
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End of More,
Nothing to do but agree with each and every statement you made.
Each and every time I explain that humans are not the center of the universe I get the impression from the visceral reaction that they want to burn me at the stake for being a heretic and daring to make such a statement.
Even if any humans do make it through the bottleneck I still would be seen as something abhorrent and the tribe must eradicate me.
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For the longest time, I’ve been sure that, not only does my dog control my mind, he controls the universe. But, now I’m pretty sure that humans are just an ambulatory symbiosis of water and bacteria. Is the unused portion of my brain reserved for a distributed bacterial networked intelligence, or am I just getting more carried away than usual?
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Who is in control? Well, End, the Gods of course!
But they do not as Epicurus realised – much care for us, and are probably busy playing board games and seducing one another.
We have, on the whole, stopped sending up incense to them, or the smoke of vast immolations of cattle, goats, etc, so when we go it is most doubtful they will even notice.
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We’ll be okay…as long as debt “grows” faster than output 😉
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It’s called inflation, Ken. When the money supply outstrips output, money gets devalued in relation to output. If debt becomes unmanageable then a period of high inflation usually sorts it out. We have always had it and probably always will.
Please don’t think that getting debt under control or going back to the gold standard or what ever will solve our predicament. Energy is all that matters, not the tokens for energy we call money.
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Once again I agree with you, Ed. My point is that our “wonderful” society can only persist with debt accumulation. It’s a sad state of affairs.
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PMB, the NBL folks have never particularly interested me, but maybe I’ve been missing out on some major entertainment.
Carolyn Baker is a member of Facebook’s UFO Sightings & Full Alien ET Disclosure Group (joined over a year ago). She also is a member of God, Angels and Humanity–A New Message From God, which is based on Marshall Vian Summers’ “teachings” (joined about 7 months ago).
And the money for the land in Belize comes from the buyer’s ex-husband’s lucrative advertising career (Pepsi, for example), a most definite part of the patriarchal empire. The money mustn’t be that dirty if received in a divorce settlement, I guess.
Question: Why are the NBL believers going to all that trouble if they accept that we’ll be dead in 2030 or 2040?
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Thanks for the response.
For a time I was on NBL, but it just seemed to reflect some essence of the blog creator and devolved into complete crap.
That Baker has gone completely over the bend, after her breast cancer situation, makes me wonder if she should have chosen hospice (which she writes about incessantly) instead of participating in the health care system and surviving so she could pass on more of her words of wisdom.
That she is still participating in some form of that group, after telling me in person she broke with them, speaks volumes of the person whom I came to know. One that is not anything like the words she vomits out of almost daily.
That McPherson wrote a book with her is only another “mistake” that the guy has made along the lines of his blaming all the problems of the mudhut on the other couple and their son. Things are never so clear and having seen the way McPherson speaks to people (arrogant and full of hubris) he is sure not passing on “Alll there is is love” stuff he rambles on and on and on about.
Thanks for providing the details regarding where the money for Belieze came from. I suspected after knowing the history of these “characters” but now know for sure. So, how does one turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse? It’s like money laundering only I don’t think this “great experiment” south of the border will succeed. None and I mean none of the participants even has a clue as to governance in a small community nor have read any of Diana Leaf Christian’s books on community (another, shall I say, high maintenance person in the whole Peak Oil menagerie.
Sounds like being married to Don Draper has some benefits. Only where is the wife of McPherson in all this (or is she even still in the picture) and is she going to Belize with the group?
Answer: I considered being a part of this effort (after 12 previous attempts at forming an IC, and numerous ones to join an existing one) but watching from a distance I got a clear picture that it was not a place that would be any different from what I’m living in now.
The goal of the group’s funder was to surround yourself with a bunch of people of like minds to go out with in the end. A commendable effort reminding me of Aric McBay’s original idea of Deep Green Resistance (until corrupted by incest survivor Jensen and his accolade lesbian Lierre (I’m queer so I call the tribe as i see it), but as Aric found out working with Jense, futile and frustrating.
I’d like to be around people much like those in the Warsaw Ghetto, but this group (Belize) is already heading down the wrong path and neither of them (the king and queen) are open to real discourse and dialogue. It is my understanding the Rolling Stone is interested in doing a piece on this “All that is left is love” BS and I want to be as far away from the fall out if that article ever sees print. Guyanan anyone?
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One of the signs of McPherson’s psychopathy is how he goes out of his way to advertise himself as a good, monogamous husband (just like failed presidential candidate John Edwards used to do). Meanwhile, he’s carrying on with his videographer (just like John Edwards used to do).
It takes a special kind of person to do that. Typically they gravitate to politics and to the pulpit, though this trait and its behaviors are certainly common enough among those who are interested in gathering a band of followers for whatever reasons.
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Monogamy is covered in generalities right at the beginning, and I didn’t know he had a wife until PMB mentioned her above:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoBjJ-6rV5k
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He did a series of interviews with one “Reese Jones”, in which he specifically claimed he was monogamously married. I’m sure that’s what he tells the wife, but it just ain’t so.
In the poly community, anybody who pulls those kind of sociopathic shenanigans is quickly outed and shown the door. There’s nothing wrong with poly – but there’s plenty wrong with lying, cheating, adultry and hypocrisy, especially when you’re busy being a moral scold as McPherson is wont to be.
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As my dear old dad used to say, anything split in half was meant to share.
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That’s a nice thought, Robert. So how many folks do you allow to rummage around your behind, anyway?
Speaking seriously, Guy McPherson is what our Christian friends would call a “false prophet”, in that he talks one way, but walks another.
Pauline Schneider is the owner of that Belize property, and when the gang all relocates there I guess Guy’s monogamous wife is just gonna have to wake up and smell the hummus.
No doubt she’ll be informed that “only love remains”, and if she doesn’t like it she can “pursue a life of excellence” elsewhere.
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“…face eventual collapse and starvation until their numbers reach a sustainable level.”
That’s the long and short of it and that’s what will soon come to pass and nothing we do at this point will alter that outcome significantly.
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Many say they will be able to make it through what they call the bottleneck by doing X in location Y with a number of like-minded people Z. In my area, there existed a perfectly functional culture of humans living just fine, thank you very much, before the Europeans came. I ask the ones I know, “Are the old ways gone?” and one woman told me, “Almost. Only a few are left who know.”
The problem is that you can’t plan on anything. The crash will come, slow or fast – there are many opinions on this, and the bottle neck will hit you in the head. So get busy and put that plan into action! But look at this! WTF! Civilization collapsed and some people are wandering around like in Oryx and Crake. But, but, but…..the land and the weather and the forests and the oceans and the ice and the air are not what they were when there were hunter/gatherers here. There’s no fresh water in the streams, it’s toxic. The weather is so variable you can’t grow anything, or gather anything, plus the land is poisoned anyway. The animals have been killed off. The trees have burned and the hills have been washed into the rivers by torrential downpours and killing frosts in July. The winters alternate between too warm and too cold. The oceans are purple and the sky is green. Even the old ways and the old cultures and the old philosophies can’t exist on such a planet. Permaculture? Don’t make me laugh. You think you know what can grow in your area once we go past 1 degree C of warming? You don’t. These folks believe that if you take away industrial civilization then they can simply go back to the way it was before and somehow start over and do it right. They are wrong. Humans have poisoned everything. They argue about what economic system to construct to make their society sustainable. How insane.
We’re watching the end of the yeast culture called homo sapiens sapiens as we eat up the last of the resources on the planet and die off like Saccharomyces cerevisiae in a carboy, taking almost all of the other species with us. It can’t happen soon enough if there are to be any surviving DNA- or RNA-based species left. Personally, I’m rooting for the microbes. If this collapse take much longer, there won’t be anything left other than the extremophiles. I wish them the best.
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Well said, and I’ve been thinking much the same thing. It remains to be seen how many “Green Valleys” will remain on this once pretty little planet after climate chaos, mass extinction, and/or nuclear holocaust have run their course.
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Anne,
Yes, I totally agree. It’s been like watching a “Game of Thrones” in real time over the years. Ruppert running around the globe like a chicken without a head. Round and round he went and never being able to find a place to plant his feet.
And all the others who are relocating under the belief they have picked the right place.
It’s been a tragic comedy to witness and be part of for too long a time until I just pulled the plug and get to watch women/people like Nancy Romer in NYC collect her pension from Brooklyn College and be appointed to the Mayor’s task force on food (she’s his food czar) and do nothing, which is what she did in the first place. If Nancy is part of the solution I’d rather be part of the problem.
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One of my favorites.
Gerald Celente;
‘When The People Lose Everything & Have Nothing Left To Lose.. They Lose It!’
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If the population of Greece a century ago was 5 million,what makes you so confident that it could support 11 million ‘using energy within it’s own borders’? A century ago we didn’t have the Haber-Bosch process supplying ‘fixed’nitrogen for industrial agriculture. Greece is just as dependent on that process as the rest of the world.
and that process and the rest of industrial agriculture is dependent on fossil fuels.
The informed estimate by Vaclav Smil and others is that the maximum human population that could be supported on the land area now under cultivation worldwide is around 3 billion,if the nitrogen input from the Haber-Bosch process did not exist.
Then we have the enormous problem of soil erosion, and dependence on phosphorous and potassium and other nutrient importation. I think the population wouldn’t remain at 11 million for long.
All in all a very good essay.
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Even if the population of Greece had to decrease from 11 million to its long term carrying capacity, this would be a soft landing relative to other Nations (as this brilliant article demonstrates). Has anyone any idea what the long term carrying capacity of the UK is ? We currently have 64 million and it’s growing.
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The answer to that varies a bit, but the general consensus is the population of about 1820, when the UK had 20m people.
Roughly 80% of workers were involved in farming one way or another, and used only muscle power.
The corn laws (best to read up on that–too complicated for here) kept the population in check to a certain extent–(high prices of food staples).
When the corn laws were repealed, in 1846, cheap grain imports flooded in, boosting population numbers. And economically damaging the UK food industry.
After that, the UK could no longer adequately feed itself. We now import about a third of what we eat, but of course the danger lies in the fact that we need oil to produce the other two thirds.
Agree about the Greek soft landing. If the North Atlantic drift slows down or shuts off, the UK will have the climate of Labrador.
Chilly or what?
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Cool, thanks. I enjoyed reading about the corn laws. This is when we (UK) started to use, what Catton refers to as, ‘ghost acreage’ to overcome local food production limits and thus increase our carrying capacity.
So if the UK population increases to say 70 million in the next decade and our long term carrying capacity of 20 million is combined with a transition period of, say, 80 (my estimate) years – Hard to imagine the pain that this will entail. I wonder how much of this pain can be softened by rolling out ‘renewables’ during the transition? I fear that the roll out of ‘renewables’ will be misused to increase our population even further though (economics and climate permitting).
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‘Renewables’ won’t solve anything.
In very basic terms, we eat oil. (or in general terms, hydrocarbons)
Renewables by and large produce electricity—which we can’t eat. We have no substitutes at all.
It’s that crude and simple.
Food is a form of energy, electricity is a form of energy, but they are not fungible, problem is politicians tell us they are.
We haven’t got 80 years because oil will run out in maybe only 30—and that’s being generous I think.
Theres a brilliant book out there, Renewable Energy without the hot air By Prof David Mackay, which is free to download btw.
http://www.withouthotair.com/
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I’ve read David mackay’s book. It has been very influential to my thinking.
80 years was just a figure I plucked out of thin air for illustration purposes. If it is 30 years (and I’m not disputing that it might be) then it just strengthens the point that I made earlier.
Renewables do only produce electricity. That is true. They do however relieve the burden on fossil fuels to provide electricity so we can do more useful things with it such motor racing, flying on holiday and taking your kids to school etc. Joking aside, if the eroei of ‘renewables’ is above 1 (if they produce more energy than they consume), then they could be valuable in extending the oil age for a little longer providing we use this extra wisely. However it is very unlikely we will use this wisely. That reminds me, I must book the fight for my next holiday.
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Thank you, David.
My point about Greece was that a century ago, Greece was a smaller country than it is now. They took back territory from the old Ottoman empire, thus increasing the population as well as size.
Obviously there will be privation, but I think self support would be doable, if only just. In this, latitude is everything. the UK certainly will not be able to do it, or a lot of northern nations when you factor in climate change as well.
A truly terrifying situation will be that of Egypt, 8m in 1900, 85m today. The Nile supplied natural fertiliser by flooding every year, now they’ve blocked that with the Aswan high dam and have to buy artificial fertiliser to make up for it, and pump water for irrigation. They also have a population growth rate of 1.6% and other countries upstream are starting to dam the Nile as well. Greece is in population depletion of 0.6%, which helps.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/16/egypt-population-explosion-social-unrest
https://timep.org/commentary/population-growth-egypt-people-problems/
Egypt is vulnerable and volatile, just as Saudi is, and controls Suez. Without US support Egypt will collapse to some invading or home grown faction of religious zealotry. Impossible to say of course whether Egypt or Saudi will go down first.
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These kinds of pictures always fascinate me:
Urban Hell
http://imgur.com/r/UrbanHell/
Not so much the pictures of “average” urban decay, that sort of thing has been around for as long as there have been cities, but those pictures of the vast sprawling slums and the pictures of people living waist deep in garbage and filth, those beggar the imagination. How can so many people live in such desperate conditions? And do it year after year, for entire generations?
I dunno, maybe I’m just another privileged white guy, but it’s amazing to me how so many people can get by on so little, especially compared to the relative prosperity and comfort enjoyed for so many years in the wealthy industrialized world. Give people a hovel, a little filthy water, and maybe the occasional bowl of rice and beans, and they can endure just about anything. Hell, they’ll even raise a family!
I think that’s why I wonder just how collapse will actually play out. Resource depletion and climate disruption will severely constrain the amount of food, water, and energy available in the world, and that leads to the natural assumption that everyone will more or less equally be toast. But wait just a mo’, billions of people are already used to living on next to nothing, and have done so for decades! It is we, the privileged few in the western industrialized world that have the most to lose.
Will we the wealthy few unleash the dogs of war to ensure that the poorest of the world die off first? Or will collapse be a great equalizer, slowly grinding the entire world down to a planet of slums?
Time will tell.
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Jerry, good explanation on how and why we came to dominate. We are a very efficient cancer if need be. I can’t see it being too much longer before the majority of western citizens demand that their governments plug the refugee holes. Blow the Chunnel! Build a wall! Sink the Boats! For some, this will be a glee filled joyous occasion, but I think many will come to view it as a matter of survival. Even if we wanted to we could not take them all in. I wonder though if we will have the resources to unleash the dogs at scale. I mean we only make up no more than 20% of the population, yet use the majority of the resources already. Looks like it might take an awful lot of resources to get control of what remains.
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It will be a matter of survival in order to keep the native populations content in a world of diminishing resources. The average person never gives up a higher level lifestyle voluntarily.
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this says it all on population demographics
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/andrewalker/2015/07/16/a-quarter-of-uk-babies-born-to-immigrant-mothers-n2026316?utm_source=8%2F4+email&utm_campaign=weekly+email+8%2F4+npg+list&utm_medium=email
My favourite analogy is about squirrels.
in the late 1800s, a few greys were let loose in the south of England.
Now the native red squirrels can only be found in isolated pockets in uk reserves.
interesting thought for our future I think
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White people: can’t make it through a single comment thread without hating themselves.
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A really good use of carbon dividends is to pay people to carbon char soil all across the whole world at the same time. By paying dividends in a new world e-currency, all border and asymmetrical realities can be rendered irrelevant. Crazy, yes, shrooms will do that to a fella.
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Kos, Bodrum: The Mediterranean’s Desperate Refugees and a Dying Child
http://www.globalresearch.ca/kos-bodrum-the-mediterraneans-desperate-refugees-and-a-dying-child/5466311
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PMB, thank you for your insights into the doomer/prepper communities, especially the NBL group. Your comments make for some compelling, entertaining reading and illustrate how easily the human herd is led down treacherous paths by sketchy individuals.
Random stuff:
I’m afraid this article reminds me of Carolyn Baker for two reasons: the psychic’s tone of writing and the author’s description of this woman’s career: “…a.k.a. a person who preys on the vulnerability of grieving people for financial gain…”
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/08/02/animal-psychic-claims-to-have-a-message-from-cecil-the-lion/
And I’m catching up on my backlog of reading, so I just found this post by Orlov with some amusing comments about this gang:
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-extinction-survey.html
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I haven’t read the comments to the Orlov article as yet, but his discussion of atmospheric CO2 shows that he is a complete fuckwit about climate science,and not worth wasting time on.
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I can’t argue with you there, david. This article was emailed to me by someone who admires Orlov despite the fact that he had a kid in the midst of a dying planet.
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Shortly after the empire pulled off the Ukrainian regime change, Orlov snapped and has been spewing nothing but rabid propaganda since (except when he needed a new boat engine). Any NTE or mass die back is not allowed to happen as it conflicts with Dimitry’s dream of a new Russian century of benevolent global leadership and family values.
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What’s wrong with you people? No one has written a comment about Kim Kardashian or posted a link.
Doesn’t anyone know what’s important? *&@$%+!?
roflmao
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“And you thought Greece had a problem?”
Of all nations, the U.S. is targeted by the two largest sea level rise generators. and one little sea level fall generator.
(Karma may be made of water & gravity).
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Due North on a compass is reality. Due South is complete delusion. If most people could be placed in a field and told to face the way they perceive reality, how many would be facing due South and how many due North? If their option were only between 0 and 180 degrees, I would say that 80% would be between 90 degrees due East and 180 due South, in other words they’re mostly optimistic about the future. Another 18% would range between 90 degrees and 0 degrees. Two percent would face due North. If you were to inform the optimistic people of bad news and make them rotate towards due North, they would then naturally, under the influence of an optimism bias, slowly rotate back towards due South. This is why book sellers always want a happy ending. You first turn them towards the truth (North) and when they’re almost completely despondent, you provide the happy ending that releases the anxiety and rotates them back towards their natural inclination to look towards the South. Happy days are here again. Look towards the sunny side of life. If the truth can no longer be hidden and they slowly rotate towards the North, I expect an outbreak of insanity, drug and alcohol abuse.
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Don’t know why this struck me as funny but my sides are sore from laughing.
The dog looks sincere?
Sick sense of humor?
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It would not take them long to start eating people, so, sure, dog’s sincerely secure for at least the near term.
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Twelve hours after posting my “Dual Systems Theory” on my WordPress blog, megacancer.com, the site went down and has been down for two days. I wonder why? I can access every other website and blog except my own.
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@James, it seems like you have not completed your domain’s verification process. Check this question out for more info: http://superuser.com/questions/753319/domain-name-is-not-resolving-cant-find-no-answer
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I can’t find that anyone else has been required to verify their blog or domain unless it’s a redirect. The domain was purchased from the blog’s host so they should know that I own it. Thanks for your info, I’ll just wait a while and see if it comes back up.
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Is there any way to break through the concocted narratives of industrial civilization? A place where humans are deemed superior, growth is good, GDP is better and your FICO score determines your worth? This concrete and asphalt shit of industrial civilization has grown all over the planet and yet no one has asked how or why? Bankers put tools into any hands that can promise a return on investment. It doesn’t matter that they’re using their tools to turn the ecosystem in mince meat, as long as growth and their financial cut continues. And when we reach a limit to growth, they’ll finance the war machines and make a nice profit in the destruction of the infrastructure they financed in the first place. In the meantime the electronic surveillance net monitors all communications to quickly eliminate any threat to the cultivated narratives and the expansion of Western banking hegemony. Now the electorate worships Trump, the latest edition of hope and change. He’s different. This time will be different and yet Trump’s main issue is with immigration, turning the attention of the people a full 180 degrees away from the banks and mega-corporations. He’ll be a great, patriotic circus barker when the wars begin in earnest.
I’ve been thinking of a new product called the “Toilet Target”, a floating, flushable paper likeness of your favorite people to be placed in toilet before use. Simply pull one from the box, place in toilet, and shit away. I’ll have the Republican, Democrat, Goldman Sachs, and Federal Reserve collections to start and a special Dynasty Collection featuring the Bush family and everyone’s favorites, Bill and Hillary Clinton.
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That’s a great idea, James but not a new one. Big money in all things retro.
Chamber Pot Enemies
http://www.strangehistory.net/2015/03/14/chamber-pot-enemies/
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http://robinwestenra.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2015-08-05T10:44:00%2B12:00
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We are the asteroid in many more ways than just climate change, such as…
Overpopulation in the last 100 years has skyrocketed from 1 to over 7 billion. A 2009 study found that the “carbon legacy” of just one child can produce 20 times more greenhouse gas than a person will save by driving a high-mileage car, recycling, using energy-efficient appliances and light bulbs, etc.
With our current agricultural system, we have no means by which to feed a projected 2050 population of 10 billion humans at our current rate of consumption. Simply to feed ourselves in the next 40 years will require that we produce more food than the entire combined agricultural output of the past 10,000 years, yet food productivity is set to decline drastically over the coming decades due to climate change, soil degradation, desertification, salinization, and groundwater depletion. Agricultural output would have to increase 70% by 2050 and demand for land to produce that food will double by then, putting pressure on the world’s remaining tropical rainforests which are predominantly the only available areas for expanding large-scale agriculture. Raising animals for human consumption accounts for about 40% of the total agricultural output in industrialized countries. Grazing occupies 26% of the earth’s ice-free terrestrial surface, and feed crop production uses about one third of all arable land.
By 2050, energy demand is projected to double which would require that we build 1,200 of the world’s largest dams, or 15,300 nuclear power stations, 9.3 million wind turbines, 24 billion solar panels, or 24,000 new fossil-fueled power stations. However, to limit global temperature to a hypothetical 2 degrees Celsius rise would require a 75% decline in carbon emissions in industrial countries by 2050, if the population is 10 billion by then. (Energy numbers from the book Ten Billion, by Stephen Emmott)
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Nice comment by Sanpaku on Reddit in response to:
Global Warming Is Irreversible, Study Says: “People have imagined that if we stopped emitting carbon dioxide that the climate would go back to normal in 100 years or 200 years. …That’s not right. It’s essentially an irreversible change that will last for more than a thousand years” (Note: 2009.) (npr.org)
…The best geological precedent for the current atmospheric carbon excursion is the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum. Temperatures were elevated for 170,000 years. We’re making decisions in a couple of generations that will impact the next 5000 generations. I recommend this lecture by Dr. Scott Wing: Global Warming 56 Million Years Ago: What it Means for Us
Other papers looking at both the inertia in the climate system, and the long tail of the melt:
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It is amazing how some basic science is still to be learned in the sea level department (Peak Sea Level – 2).
Left hand needs to talk to the right hand more often.
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In a lot of ways, individual humans are like amoebas. They survey the environment for reward with their senses and then their neural circuitry sends them in some particular direction to obtain that reward. There are really just two settings 1) perception, movement, reward and 2) no perception of reward, no movement (depression), no reward. Someone with an optimism bias senses a pot of gold beyond every horizon and keeps moving, only to be disappointed, or sometimes not. Since humans and most animals are wired to seek rewards and to be happy in seeking rewards (its the journey, not the destination) we have only one direction to proceed. A complete build-out of cancerous infrastructure and complete depletion of all resources. No stop, no reverse, just straight ahead and into the concrete wall. Sometimes I feel like I’m in a car with a bunch of dopamine apes and everyone is looking out the back window as the car goes faster and faster. Everyone says the future is beautiful, look out the back window and see for yourself, our progress and growth. “We can go faster, we can go further, there’s more for everyone, it’s a party dude.” Then, suddenly its over and the humans that thought they had minds but in reality only had neural reward circuits, disintegrate in the crushed steel cage at the end of the road.
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First, End of More, thank you. This is a really good and well-written statement of our predicament. I sent it to a few people in hopes that your way of describing the situation will be more accessible to those with blinkers on than the usual collapse fare. (Nothing against the latter, I read it all the time, but unless your already bent a certain way, it usu. lacks power to persuade.)
I don’t follow McPherson and NBL so I was intrigued and saddened to learn of the Belize Plan. I understand the impulse to find a safe haven, I’ve spent so much mental energy considering homesteading, intentional communities, trying to figure out which areas are “best,” etc. I thank my lucky stars that circumstances have kept me from implementing and committing myself to some “solution” thus far. Now that I have some resources and could take steps, I have a wait and see, let’s be flexible attitude. I understand that has its own risks, but I don’t know how anyone can honestly say we know how this is going to go down, here are the 1 or 2 ways to play it – “collapse now and avoid the rush” being, I think, very irresponsible “advice” for anyone to lay on complete strangers with whom you have no personal connection (e.g., readers of any blog).
Yes, by all means, get your head straight about what we are facing. Wrap your head around the fact that the lifestyles we in the developed world now enjoy are coming to a fairly abrubt end, soonish. Build a little resiliency into wherever you are now, think through some possible scenarios. But thinking you know what will happen and how it will go down and then making some radical break from your own life history, family, friends based on that, as if there is some Collapse Religion version of The Rapture, so that you disappear into to Heaven and they are Left Behind?? How very un-boddhisatva! Someone criticized RE above, or at least found his personality hard to take, but his “Long Campout” contingency plan is one of the most sensible low cost least disruptive contingency plans for a sudden total or near total collapse that I have read.
Someone above mentioned Game of Thrones. I think this and The Walking Dead are so popular because I think that many Americans consciously and subconsciously know and feel in their bones that things are going to radically change for the worse, and these shows really speak to it and are a kind of mental and emotional preparation for it. I find The Walking Dead particularly interesting because it explores how lasting and workable communities are forged through, or will crumble under the pressure of events, and explores what ideas, attitudes and organization structures or group dynamics will lead to survival and life, and those that will lead to death. So far, a charismatic leader (the “Mayor”) has led two groups of people to their death servicing his own ideas and demons, while Rick’s group of survivors has a more democratically open structure, where everyone knows and deals with the realities of their situation. Interestingly enough for collapsniks, at the end of the last season, after wandering and surviving in the wilderness for a long time, our protagonists have found a home in a walled “sustainable” or “green” community, but will be facing threats in the new season not only from the zombie hoards outside, but worse, from a cunning band of marauders who call themselves the Wolves, who will doubtless want to recover the luxuries of modernity for themselves – LOLZ, a preppers’ doomstead / doom community nightmare! It will be VERY interesting to see what the show’s writers do with this.
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Interesting comment. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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thanks for the comment– it’s good to know that what I’m trying to say is making sense somewhere.
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End of More: Interview with Norman Pagett, Part 2
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Notable recent news items:
The California Drought Is Creating A New Silent Spring: Try listening to the sounds of nature in dry California, and you’ll struggle to hear anything at all.
US Forest Service says spending more than half of budget on fires.
Collapsing Trees In California Raises Concerns About Drought And Public Safety
Cecil the Lion: A Drop in the Ocean of Global Extinction
World’s biggest oil companies are painting a grim picture of the future and speculators are listening.
Thick layer of toxic algae that can cause memory loss stretches from Alaska to California and is shutting down fisheries; ‘The question on everyone’s mind is whether this is related to global climate change.’
New population forecasts from UN point to new world order in 2050. Number of people will grow from 7.3 billion to 9.7 billion in 2050, 100m more than was estimated in the UN’s last report two years ago.
I say, according to a study…
The Point of No Return: Climate Change Nightmares Are Already Here
Speed of glacier retreat worldwide ‘historically unprecedented’, says report. Researchers have recorded rapid rises in meltwater and alarming rates of glacial retreat, which are accelerating at a pace double that of a decade ago. : science
Climate change could force 1 billion from their homes by 2050
Arctic Sea Ice Reaches All-Time Low
Researchers have demonstrated that even if a geoengineering solution to CO2 emissions could be found, it wouldn’t be enough to save the oceans
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tagio, I have nothing to say about the shows since I don’t watch TV, and after researching Guy McPherson more, I still have nothing to say. There’s not much meat to analyze. He quit a well-paying career (now asks for donations and earns peanuts), built an expensive doomstead (now is trying to sell it at a loss because he didn’t hit it off with the co-owners), complicated what at one time looked like a strong marriage by bringing in a third party, and now has plans to escape to Belize with said third party’s handily financing it. It’ll be messy when the bloom is off the rose.
For my own midlife crisis, I bought a motorcycle and used it for a few months before coming back to my senses.
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Pickles,
Lol, it is very very good, and so often just dumb luck, to not completely or irredeemably self-destruct. I am 59, old enough to give thanks to my wife, and to the forces and events that saved me — from myself.
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These are all relatively small and foolish mistakes that in and of themselves are not very impactful to others. The larger mistake – and the one with the ability to mess with others heads – is the creation of this cultic personality, replete with the denial of the truth of his own life. He’s gone out of his way (and still does) to create a hagiography around himself, deliberately lying about himself and his life.
In this video introduction (see link below) “Reese Jones” writes:
>>>
It was important to me that Dr. McPherson be a man of honor, a man of his word, this purveyor of such gloom and doom. Had he been a womanizer, an alcoholic, a liar, cheat, or thief, I might have breathed a sigh of relief.
Perhaps unfortunately for him, he’s perfect for this message, as if he was born to carry the burden, to share the grim tidings of the oncoming, onslaught of collapse with a resistant world.
It accelerates … and we may need the strength, passion and resilience of this man of fine measure, Dr. Guy McPherson, more than ever.
>>>
Nobody cares, or should care, whether McPherson (or anyone else) is monogamous, or polyamorous or even celibate. What we should care about is whether he is ethical, and whether his presentation of self is authentic, seeing how he presents himself as a moral critic and deep thinking doomer.
Here’s the link to that post in Nature Bats Last. Go to about 3:25 in the video to hear Guy flat out lie about his own life.
http://guymcpherson.com/2014/08/1-the-latest-video-from-reese-jones-and-2-ownership-nations-and-boundaries-passports-and-empire/
Once you’ve absorbed the scientific information he offers (which is good and useful but certainly incomplete), you quickly realize that there is an undue and unseemly egotism driving him.
The doomer/collapse community doesn’t need this kind of nonsense. The apocalypse isn’t for sale, and we don’t need any dissembling cult leaders, either.
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Could someone link to a source for the guy mcpherson belize thing? I find that really interesting….
I dont know what happened to him, but after his “grief counselling” or whatever he did, his personality changed. His presentations became less about scientific fact, and more about evoking an emotional response from the audience. I really liked his stuff 2 years ago, which was all science, but now… well….
He does come across as a hypocrite as well. Hes moving to Belize apparently? For what? Hasnt he said he has not only reached acceptance, but has gone even one step further into his made up step of gallows humor? How can one have accepted their own death (let alone the death of the species) and still feel compelled to run away from the inevitable?
Honestly I think hes a narcissist when it comes down to it.
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I don’t buy any horseshit that McPherson went out of his way to create some kind of cult. Go back to 2007 or whenever he started his blog and start reading. I think most will find a different person than today. I think he has a core cult like following, but it was likely an organic thing or maybe they created him. Angry, scared confused like many who are awake and aware and trying to find some meaning in it all – trying to connect. Lost. That’s how I see McPherson, but every fucking thing has to be a years long uber conspiracy in this day and age. No insecure, confused, hopeless, highly fallible, dopamine driven, mistake ridden apes allowed. I think it’s hilarious how much shit some obscure retired professor with an internet connection disturbed.
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Very perceptive. Paranoiacs, fooled by the slippage of signifiers, create meaningful coincidence out of happenstance. Anything but see ourselves as we really are, which, as Aldous Huxley suggested, would swiftly result in mass murder or mass suicide. But, if I may say so, your observations are another way of saying that McPherson is out of his depth. Reese Jones’s assertion, quoted above, that McPherson is “perfect for this message,” should not go unremarked. I can hardly think of anyone more unsuited to the task than McPherson. I must stress that I am not saying this to score a point against McPherson, but am simply wondering aloud whether I am alone in noticing that what used to be up is now decidedly down. For example, quite obvious to me (so surely obvious to others?) is the weird disjunction between the import of his message and his delivery. We are all familiar with the cultural trope of the passenger on the doomed airline that has caught fire who cries “we’re all going to die.” The passenger is gurning like Kermit the frog and you want to punch him in the face, but you can’t deny he’s definitely on point. Not so with McPherson, who, after a mistimed joke that clanks horribly like a dropped anvil, launches into his message in an adenoidal monotone that will lull all but the most keen eyed devotee into a deep narcosis. And you thought the end of the world was all going to be Mad Max.
The problem as I see it isn’t so much Guy but that the public conversation has been so completely captured by the cult of expertise. Notice the extra care everyone takes to remind everyone that McPherson is a credentialed academic. Herr Doktor Professor Guy McPherson will bore you now! Just another surreality to add to the growing nagging suspicion that life doesn’t make a lick of sense.
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9/11, conspiracy theory, and bullshit mongers
http://www.nafeezahmed.com/2015/08/911-conspiracy-theory-and-bullshit.html?utm_content=bufferac8fb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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Good one. Glad I don’t have that Kevin “the-moon-landing-was-faked” Moore haunting this site.
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Better watch out buddy, they might put you back on “THE LIST”
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Mike –
One of the better blogs our there right now is Gail Zawacki’s “WitsEndNJ”. She has become exceptionally focused on documenting all the ways our natural world is taking a series of hits – beyond the AGW perspective of McPherson and company. I think she is doing exceptional work right now – and it is really work that is less influenced by polemic and political perspectives than much of what is shared on the doomosphere.
I would suggest that this would be a good and useful addition to your blog roll.
http://witsendnj.blogspot.com/
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While the blog may and I say may be a good source I still contend that peeling back the layers of any onion is a much underrated action. One never knows whether the core is rotten until cutting into the produce with a knife or taking a bite to find it’s not edible.
The personal story of each of these people’s lives (Wacky, McP, Ruppert, Baker, Jensen, etc., etc) is just as important as the personal lives of closeted gay politicians (are there still any after gay marriage (you betcha)). Personal lives and they way people behave in private is an important element in how to really process the information being passed on.
Regarding Gail’s free book. I found it to be completely unreadable. It was an attempt by a person who has been rejected and left out of the academic arena. Large words, long sentences, not a piece that can be easily read by the average (hey, that’s me) person which such books as Overshoot, Limits to Growth, and Silent Spring were.
Gail needs a good friend and editor to help her make what should have been a spectacular read and winds up a snore-fest. Free or not it’s like trying to wade through the horse manure and honey of Bud Nye’s pieces that McPherson seems to inflict on his readers at NBL. For Bud Nye it’s all about winning.
Am reading Norman’s book (End of More) right now (a hat tip to you Norman) and find he writes in an interesting and engaging manner on topics just as relevant as those Gail and Bud attempt. He manages to take a complex topic and present in a way that is a real page turner like Agatha Christie or Earl Stanley Gardner (some of us read those authors as well as Proust and that old guy Bill Shakespeare).
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I don’t know much about Gail Zawacki, other than the fact that she lives in NJ in the midst of Steve Forbes country. But I agree with you 100% that the personal story of those who present information to the doomer/collapse community – and particularly those who editorialize about it – is essential.
Integrity has to be the watchword. It’s just that simple. If you’re living the life of a liar and a hypocrite, you don’t have the moral credentials to criticize others. Pot, kettle,black. Unchecked egotism is unchecked egotism, whether it manifests as conspicuous consumption or cheating in one’s primary relationship or reverting back to drinking when you have a history of alcoholism as well as mental illness.
Guy McPherson talks how the solution to our problems (if there was one, at this point) would be to abandon industrial civilization and return to tribal life. Sounds good, but in a tribal environment, there’d be zero tolerance for McPherson’s shenanigans. He’d be banned, or worse, depending on the tribal system of justice.
The doomer “tribe” has every right, and indeed a real responsibility, to vet carefully those who put on the alpha hat, seek to promote themselves as leaders or spokespeople, and invite moral and financial support. As the sun sets and the darkness rises, we don’t need another hero, to quote Tina Turner. We just want a life beyond ThunderDome – and beyond bullshit.
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Very good except for one small;) delusion in the last 2min.
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Jack Arnold, McPherson’s girlfriend entered his life two years ago; it could be entirely coincidental that his message has been dumbed down since. I did notice that they spend a lot of time propping up her credentials (grief counselor, videographer, etc.), and I think Bukowski describes this type rather well: “She was desperate and she was choosy at the same time and, in a way, beautiful, but she didn’t have quite enough going for her to become what she imagined herself to be.”
misericordia, I agree. Hearing his attempts at humor reminds me of when I accompanied my 85-year-old mother to a Mark Russell show…the same kind of squirming, suffocating feeling.
Jack, these folks are uninteresting and rapidly becoming irrelevant what with the ever-growing crop of climate change articles that are now describing our dire state. If his small group of followers decide to make a cult of him, well, they’ll be providing an entertaining soap opera for the rest of us. Onward to Belize!
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Oh ok, now I understand the soap opera. I thought that lady was looking at Guy all googly eyed in some interview I saw awhile back. Apparently it is possible to be both Doomy and Dreamy at the same time. Who woulda thunk it?
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Guy McPherson may have a good idea based solely on principle. I can’t say how it will turn-out in a practical sense. He must be one of civilization’s discontents, shoe-horned into a social and economic system that is preposterous at best and as outrageously destructive as a large meteorite strike. But if you stick around Guy, things will improve as we wage war against our true enemies – labor unions, immigrants and ISIL. Just as long as the spotlight doesn’t end-up on bankers, mega-corporations, and their government lackeys, then things will be fine. If there aren’t any suitable scapegoats, they’ll create one like the Taliban or Al Qaeda or Iran or Russia. It’s their fault, don’t you see?
If you’ve been watching what’s going on in Venezuela now, the lines at stores, violence and looting, then you can get an idea of what’s going to happen all over. If you have a store of wealth, in your home, backyard, then you’re probably going to lose it. When the whole starving neighborhood shows up at your storage building and demands you step aside, and you will, the doors will be opened and everything will be distributed. The bankers will show up at your pension or deposit account and do the same thing. John McAfee tried Belize for while and reported that a local politician demanded a “contribution” to his reelection campaign with the assistance of the local armed militia. Many Westerners will be stripped of everything when things get difficult. An excellent seminar opportunity would concentrate on how to hide wealth and just plain hide and how to read the tea leaves regarding impending genocidal behaviors. And never underestimate the potential savagery as with the Japanese in Nanking in 1937 or the Hutus in Rwanda in 1994.
“A young Maori convert, of ‘a particularly gentle and lovable disposition, very shy – even timid, and extremely popular with everyone at the mission where he was employed… One day he happened to meet a young girl who had run away for some reason from her home in a neighbouring village. The young Maori suddenly became possessed of an unaccustomed demon. He seized the young girl, took her to his hut, killed her in cold blood; cut up her body in the traditional manner, and then invited his friends to partake with him in a meal, the chief and most favoured dish of which consisted on this young Maori girl.”
A. P. Rice in The American Antiquarian, vol. XXXII, 1910
http://heretical.com/cannibal/nzealand.html
Sadly and pathetically many individuals of many races have this tendency to “suddenly become possessed of an unaccustomed demon.” I believe this same demon pulls the behavioral strings to butcher and cannibalize the ecosystem without remorse.
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There’s nothing wrong with being “doomy and dreamy”. That’s as good a way to face the coming darkness as any other.
There’s a lot wrong with being a Jimmy Swaggart or John Edwards type of guy, who deliberately creates a false public persona based on appearing virtuous, moral, ethical in order to gather supporters, sell products/services, get elected, get people to join their church, etc.
In plain language, people like that are well deserving of the scorn that they inevitably get. Karma bats last.
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I never said there was anything wrong with it. I literally did not believe that one who spoke such beliefs out loud would ever be viewed as a candidate for a new romance. Even though the whole thing looks like every other ape comedy now, I wish them good luck. A good way indeed. I disagree with Guy on plenty, but always respected him for having a pair in a time of universal cowardice. And I have really enjoy how he made so many arrogant pricks squirm. It drips my D.
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@Apneaman: And I have really enjoy how he made so many arrogant pricks squirm. It drips my D.
You can get something for that at the clinic.
Seriously, speaking truth to power is great – but I have an innate distaste for sociopathic types, even when they seem to be on my team. Maybe that’s too picky for your tastes.
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Jack, you mentioned something about gathering supporters and selling products/services. I found the following quote on Fractal Planet and consider McPherson’s comment an obvious attempt at appeasing the large number of parents out there since he seems to be chronically scrounging for money and attention. He’s cold-blooded in his views toward actual suffering; marital dalliance would be seen as only a minor glitch in that particular self-created morality.
Child-Free Population Activist said:
I give McPherson great credit for having the prescience to forgo reproducing (he wrote about this in early posts before going off the rails with near-term human extinction). I can’t, however, commend him for much else.
A great comment I read recently and an example of McPherson’s strange, detached viewpoint towards misery in general:
“… I do know that his cavalier, clueless attitude about human reproduction in a time of suffering, NTE or not, has prevented the average population activist in my group from giving him any credence. And it’s too bad too because he once wrote in his blog about his decision to remain child-free at age 20 in 1980. Here is the quote that killed what little was left of his reputation:
Dahr Jamail/Truthout, 12/01/2014, ‘Are Humans Going Extinct?’
Jamail: What would you say to young couples now who are having children, or are trying to get pregnant?
McPherson: We have means of preventing that. [McPherson smiles and pauses]
I try to encourage people to pursue their passion, to do what they love, and apparently some people love having children. Obviously I think that’s a terrible strategy, given how little time we have on this planet as a species, but who am I to interrupt somebody else’s reproductive rights?
So if you love having children, have children and love them, and no matter how long their lives are, try to make them be joyous years. I think that goes for all of us, and if that means you want to bring children into the world, who am I to stop you from pursuing what you love? That’s what I try to encourage people to do.”
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Climate change: Oceans will die even if we remove carbon dioxide from atmosphere, say scientists
“even if the CO2 in the atmosphere would later on be reduced to the pre-industrial concentration, the acidity in the oceans could still be more than four times higher than the preindustrial level. It would take many centuries to get back into balance with the atmosphere,” Dr Mathesius said.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-oceans-will-die-even-if-we-remove-carbon-dioxide-from-atmosphere-say-scientists-10435775.html
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Creepy how close his name is to ‘malthusian’ —-Dr Mathesius. 😯
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Top NASA scientist: “Obama’s Clean Power Plan is worthless”
Comments here:
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Norman,
Great article; I’ve wondered for a few years if there was a good book looking with some depth at western civilization through the lens of the fact that petroleum prefaced it all. (Or catalyzed it) I see you have a book available at Amazon UK. Is it available in the U.S.? Any other titles you’d recommend along these lines?
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thanks Peter… Yes my book is available on US Amazon.
There’s a whole raft of other titles—(most seem to be piled up on the bookshelf in front of me) Beyond Oil–Deffeyes, the Gaia series by Lovelock, Six Degrees, by Lynas–there are lots more, All with a different slant on the subject.
The thing they have in common is (generally speaking) to give opinions on how our lives will pan out post oil, which of course is impossible to know. There are too many unknowns in the mixture of climate change, population growth and energy depletion. I had one crit on Amazon, berating me for not offering ”solutions”—as if!!
My approach to writing about the problem, is to set out how we got here, and to link that with the way human nature–in a collective sense– has made us behave the way we have.
That’s why I used Greece in the article above as an example of the energy/money problems that we are all facing one way or another. The problem is real, but human nature puts us into a state of denial because it seems to be happening thousands of miles away. I’ve tried to explain how Greece got into its mess, and how seemingly wealthy Saudi is going the same way, (as is the USA) no national leaders/economists are able to accept why it should be—blaming it on ‘international finance’ or ‘political turmoil’ or whatever, anything but the truth, that nations are simply running out of fuel and fighting over what’s left.
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Damn it! I’m tired of scolding everyone here.Doesn’t anyone realize that the only important news is about Donald Trump & Megyn Kelly.
I can’t help myself & neither can my psychiatrist.
LOL
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Interesting visualization. If life has been around for 4.5 billion years and the average human life is 90 years (generous allotment, most lives were much shorter) , then we have 50,000,000 modern human lifetimes. Divide that by 500, the number of sheets in a ream of paper and you get 100,000 reams of paper, each one 2.5” wide and that comes out to about 4 miles long of reams stacked side by side. Think of the amount of time necessary to build the complexity of the ecosystem and associated biosphere and then think about the one or two sheets (180 years) of paper out of that four miles that fucks the whole thing up royally and then smiles about it. And all they can do is think about electing a big chief because their brains are still sitting around a campfire some 50,000 years ago wondering which specimen of human evolution is going to lead them to the happy hunting grounds. It’s not just a mistake or a little misunderstanding or an inconvenient truth – it’s a goddamn holocaust visited upon nature by a voracious, unconscious, technological cancer.
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Economists are not the only professionals who run into interdisciplinary cacophony (The Gravity of Sea Level Change).
And it causes Greece and every other country potential problems that will cost and cost big.
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Well, this McPherson attack is all very entertaining and enjoyable. I guess it’s healthy stuff, if you think about the different reasons people have for being there. Do I trust the man? Absolutely not. Do I believe a lot of what he says? As long as it jives with my own research, then, yes. Do I like the man? Not particularly. In fact, I’m pretty sure he’s just the kind of guy I really hate, but then, I’m not looking for companionship in anything but ideas and information. There are a lot of rich, stupid, lonely desperate people out there, and if it tickles their twats to buy his affections, then who gives a fuck? I’m not too worried about his ability to pimp himself out for love and power, as long as he tries to stick to the science. Science speaks for itself, albeit in specialized information silos. Somebody has to mesh these silos into a coherent whole to complete the big picture. He did this first and somewhat credibly. I don’t care if he lies, cheats and schemes his life away because I wouldn’t give him the sweat off my balls, let alone cash. I am attracted to his site, and this site, because of a predilection for reality or reasonable facsimile thereof. But, who the fuck would chose Belize? Siberia and Northern Canada is where it’s at.
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I don’t think anyone objects to you sharing your information and perspective here, there or anywhere, Robert. You’re missing the point of the Guy McPherson discussion which is emerging here, and in other fora as well.
The point is that the doomer/collapse community is a sort of tribe – and as such it functions in a way to identify pathology among its members, and particularly among those who put on an alpha hat, presenting themselves as thought leaders, moral arbiters, etc.
Any big, disruptive event – much less the apocalypse – is going to stir up pathology of all sorts. All kinds of crazy is going to emerge. And some of the crazy will be people trying to exploit all the angst by selling snake oil, and making hay while the sun still shines.
The tribe needs to know about folks like that – folks whose presentation of self is just a crock of crap, and who are looking to pull money out of the tribal pocket, and put it in theirs.
Here’s the “Professor Doctor” marketing himself:
http://www.guymcpherson.net/
And here is the “Professor Doctor” marketing himself as a grief counselor (after taking a weekend course with his “colleague” Pauline Schneider”):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSKJKKthGGg
http://guymcpherson.com/2015/05/abrupt-climate-change-how-will-you-show-up-during-humanitys-final-chapter/
And here is the trailer for the latest collegial effort between McPherson and Schneider, which seems really creepy to me, once you are aware of the back story.
This is important information for the “tribe”, as distasteful as it is.
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Left off one of the URLS…the one for Miss Ladybug and Mr. Honeybee.
I haven’t read it myself, and don’t plan to…but I bet Mrs. Honeybee isn’t featured.
http://guymcpherson.com/2015/08/edge-of-extinction-the-lions-share-of-blame/#comments
“Only love remains”. That’s almost as good as “It’s the real thing”.
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I remember that Guy did not even have so much as a donate button until one of the tribe suggested it. I also don’t think he had any grand plans to make a bunch of videos and radio shows. Which is why I suggest that certain people helped make him what he is today – whatever that is. I see it as a joint project between multiple needy apes vying to get their dopamine requirements filled. I have watched a number of people I have know for years become corrupted. They say “people change”, but I wonder how much is just opportunity and circumstance.
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At the edge of extinction only love remains……………………. or something like it.
Especially if your a really tall, high achieving dreamy alpha ape.
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Strictly professional – we just make Doomer info videos for lost souls.
—————————————————————————————————–
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUssyadpPic
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Apneaman, besides “Ruby, Don’t Take Your Love to Town,” this is the only Kenny Rogers song I’ve ever deliberately inflicted upon myself…an example of how much I enjoy your input!
These 2-year-old McPherson articles are equally amusing:
“Do good people promote patriarchy? Do they pursue and promote the notions of marriage and monogamy even when knowing these ideas are steeped in the patriarchy of a culture gone seriously awry? As examples of patriarchy, marriage and monogamy are obligations of empire rather than outcomes of natural law. Instead of abiding and supporting imperialism, shall good people attempt to reduce or eliminate patriarchy, hence civilization, one act at a time?”
http://goodmenproject.com/social-justice-2/social-justice-questioning-culture-the-absurdity-of-authenticity/
“Consider, for example, a single example for the Abrahamic religions (aka patriarchy): marriage. Do we have an obligation to minimize the pain when a monogamous relationship becomes personally painful, or even a matter of indifference (i.e., lacking daily joy)? Contemporary culture suggests we muddle through, in sickness and health, until death. And then, the ultimate personal endpoint solves the problem of suffering.”
(Pauline’s helpful nudge: “The Buddha also said ‘Save yourself and you save the world’ So, you could take that as license to end your own suffering first. Kinda like putting the oxygen mask on you first when on a crashing plane.”)
http://goodmenproject.com/social-justice-2/social-justice-shades-of-existential-gray/
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Ms Ladybug and Mr Honeybee ride again.
Bullshit bats last.
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How about a different Kenny Rogers?
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How old was the tribe when Dylan wrote this and later sang it it 1963?
(Dylan 1963)
…
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Lyrics here.
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Some awesome stuff here, both the post and the comments. So I won’t sing praises but will focus on the one thing I think the author missed. He said:
“Primitive farmers knew nothing of calorific values, or capitalism; only that too little food meant starvation, sufficient food averted famines, and surplus food offered prosperity. No one wanted to starve, few were content with sufficient, so the drive for surplus became relentless.”
Er, why would only a few be content with sufficient? THAT is the 100 dollar question. WHY would the drive for surplus become relentless, when we in fact know its gross disadvantages, disadvantages our ancient ancestors knew well too?
In fact, large surpluses led to large elites and overcomplexity and eco-crashes and all that. They can offer prosperity for a time, at great cost. I think the author needs to dig deeper.
For another discussion, see my blog, Leaving Babylon (leavingbabylon.wordpress.com). And give me half an hour to get things posted. 🙂
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Many might be content with ‘sufficient’—but my overall point was intended to be collective, as is always the case with tribal group, nations, empires and so on. I probably didn’t stress that enough. Perhaps I painted my wordpicture with too broad a brush.
Consider (for example) a tribal group. If they have a reasonably successful agriculture/food supply, they will breed and have more offspring reaching maturity. But that will push the boundaries of survival, because new mouths need feeding. The increased tribe pushes against its borders, disputes arise, so conflict becomes inevitable. If there’s less food, there isn’t the collective strength to enter aggressive tactics against neighbours. (Though they might attack you of course). Leaders on the winning side enjoy the spoils of victory–no empire builder ever says enough is enough. (except Hadrian maybe)
Also young men seek mates who might not be readily available at home. (better genetic mix ! ).
The Viking outthrust coincided with a warmer climate in Northern Europe, for instance.
The current Syrian conflict originated when farmers were forced off their land because of drought and migrated into cities, and set off Sunni/Shia conflict.
Our ancestors didn’t know about the problems of excess population in the sense that we know it—. excess numbers were either forced out to find new lands, or died. Poor nutrition opened the door to disease. The plague of 1348/50 was preceded by famine years around 1315/16.
History shows how empires pushed outwards from home territories, then collapsed back–or went on and implanted itself in the new lands ‘permanently’ (As say the British Empire—Canada, Australia New Zealand etc.) Invaders were simply absorbing the indigenous energy of new lands, where the native peoples were too weak to resist, either on the military level or the biological level. The average peasant farmer in Europe might not notice much, but looked at over a century or two, such ‘collective’ movements become clear I think. That’s why I said the collective drive for surplus was relentless.
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Foragers would have ruined their environment if their drive for more had been relentless, and they well knew it. This was also still true for foragers/horticulturists. (See my reply on my blog.) I think once you have a kingdom, a city state, or an empire, things change. You seem to lump it all.
You paint all tribal groups with one brush. Tikopia, as I pointed out, does not fit your picture. They decreased their population. Neither do the Enga on Papua New Guinea. They did increase their population when the sweet potato came in, but that was a cultural as well as an elite push. And while they did have territorial conflicts, many of their wars were ceremonial, with very few casualties, and they had many cultural mechanisms to work out conflicts among them without the use of violence. It would have been interesting to see if they would have changed the pattern of widespread polygamy and many children, once their large territory was getting full. But we’ll never know, since they were overtaken by the Australians and colonized. Their heavy push for surplus came from ceremonial feasting staged by the elites. (But by the time the Aussies came in, everybody was tired of the whole MORE crank… especially the women. It got out of hand.)
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i meant that there is a general inclination to expand.
obviously local circumstances might make that easy or difficult or impossible
The UK sat on a bigger energy source than the Saudis do now, together with vast amounts of iron ore, and enjoyed an enlightened mode of thinking, within a seafaring state.
Taken together, that allowed the building of cannon and iron ships with which to conquer vast territories.
Just geological and political chance really
Japan might have done the same thing, being similarly placed, but made the choice of remaining a closed state until the mid 1800s. Once they ”opened up” they declared war on the USA and the British Empire and China within 80 years, because their need for energy input to keep their system going was insatiable.
Expansionism again.
They were grabbing (collectively) for more. On an individual level, the Japanese were a highly cultured people, but as a nation they tried to rape Asia.
ultimately a bad idea—but impossible to stop, until hit by a stronger force.
The USA is doing exactly the same thing now, to secure its energy supplies
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We are in synch when it comes to this civilization. Yes, there is an inclination to expand. But there is also the Law of Least Effort that humans are very fond of. That one trumped expansion in many a tribe…
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…but then we discovered an army of cheap slaves in the form of fossil fuels. We’ve relegated a lot of dirty work to support this unsustainable population and way of life.
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Yup. But just imagine that fossil fuels were discovered by an island society like Tikopia, or for that matter the Pueblo Indians. The benefits would be shared among all, nobody would get thousands of energy slaves and nobody would get none… the society would experience an improvement in the sense of less work for somewhat more comfort, and hey, I wanna live there already.
It’s like an effing drug, y’all keep saying you gotta hit that heroin lever until you keel over, and I keep saying, no, it’s a choice.
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I don’t think it’s a choice. For the FF industry, it’s not in their business model. For megacities it’s not a choice. They’ll go to war to defend their outsourced way of life. For anyone enjoying the luxuries and conveniences of modern living, it’s not a choice.
Decarbonization will be attempted to the extent that it can and technology will be deployed for problem-solving, but I don’t expect any sort of mass culture change to a life of permaculture farming and bucolic bliss. As Tainter said, he knows of only one civilization which successfully chose to simplify and it was because their back was against the wall:
“After the Byzantine empire lost most of its territory to the Arabs, they simplified their entire society. Cities mostly disappeared, literacy and numeracy declined, their economy became less monetized, and they switched from professional army to peasant militia.”
…
“Today’s population levels depend on fossil fuels and industrial agriculture. Take those away and there would be a reduction in the Earth’s population that is too gruesome to think about.”
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Every committed junkie thinks it’s not a choice. That does not mean it’s true.
Yup, the Byzantines did it, and among us, there will be areas…communities, bioregions, free cities, maybe even countries, that will do it too. Many would rather sit on the deck of the Titanic and listen to the music than jump. But that does not mean it’s not …. a choice. 🙂
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Not true leaver. I spent 20 tears as a hard core drunkard and during the last 6-7 years I added on slamming needles full of cocaine and heroin into my arms for added effect. I fucking loved it! I’m not dead because I made the choice to quit. It was not easy, but no one else decide for me. I know many who are now dead and many still doing it. Sure some feel they have no choice, but many won’t give it up because they don’t want to – they like it in spite of the risks and harm to others. What I did was find and/or go back to a number of different dopamine delivery systems. That we cannot live without our dopamine rewards is where we are bereft of choice. My previous dopamine delivery choices were condemned by the greater society as destructive to myself and them – I was a threat. If I was like Rex Tillerson, I would be held up as a goddamn genuine capitalist hero. Why? Cause he is the dealer for their drug of choice. The one that makes the endless stream of super hyper stimuli possible. WE LOVE IT!
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“there would be a reduction in the Earth’s population that is too gruesome to think about.”
The tiny predators will get us sooner or later, and it will be good for the species and good for the planet. Predators keep a species healthy and fit. Sapiens have become overbred, bloated, sick and mad. Bring it on!
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guess bugs rule after all
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Pingback: Deepest problem | Leaving Babylon
Research shows catastrophic invertebrate extinction in Hawai’i and globally
http://phys.org/news/2015-08-catastrophic-invertebrate-extinction-hawaii-globally.html#jCp
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Apneaman, thanks (I think). That’s the kind of thing that has me worried about tiny critters which are necessary for plant growth mostly at the root level but also at the leaf level.
Paraphrasing James Carville, “It’s the biology, stupid!”
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Hey. leavergirl, good to see you around again. Your blog name reminds me of a blog I enjoyed a number of years ago, which is now defunct: “How Many Miles From Babylon”.
This is a churchy person here who has resurrected some of that work:
http://thedeliberateagrarian.blogspot.com/2015/02/more-from-writings-of-eleutheros.html
I think it might be incorrect to say that primitive farmers knew nothing about calories. Fat has always been highly-prized; it’s only recently that people have come to revile it and throw it away.
I think also that we might underestimate the degree to which population pressures came to eventually favor societal surplus as a technology. No matter how sporadic you paint its success, it has undeniably led to near 7.5 billion descendants of those earlier folks. In an abundant environment, surplus is everywhere you look, so there’s no advantage to hoarding. At some point, though, we generally passed the tipping point from abundance to scarcity, entering a more “full earth” scenario. The damage to ecosystems was too great to get by without agricultural technology, and then of course agricultural technology in its turn allowed for larger populations, in a Catch-22 we will never be able to resolve either politically or energetically without collapse (climate change apart). Like you, though, I would be interested to see the author flesh out some ideas on this if he has any.
————————————————————
I hang out a lot at NBL, out of habit and convenience. Other doom blogs have run me off (koff, koff). I don’t feel that there is a “cult” mentality among NBLers or among doomers in general, but there are obviously things behind the scenes I’m not privy to. I follow NBL rather closely but this is the first I have heard about Pauline having bought land in Belize, for example. On the blog I think Guy is quite stand-off-ish, opting never to enter into anything but the bare minimum of interaction there. His line about never visiting the NBL Forum is downright rude.
I don’t think, either, that there is a very coherent or cohesive “tribe” of doomers, since none of them actually seem to agree. The majority (including Guy himself) seem inexplicably and very unscientifically (imo) stuck inside notions of human individual and societal evolution, improvement, self-direction, and agency, rejecting any idea that the trajectory of the past were ‘natural’.
And yeah, I caught that weird mini-rant about “monogamy” back when it aired. The man is obviously under stress, and anyone who puts him/herself in front of an audience is going to acquire groupies. Let him have his “daily joy”.. he’s not the first person to go ‘astray’, if he has, nor will he be the last. I agree with much of what Robert and Apneaman have written.
Though I admit to enjoying gossip, what I’m concerned about is that attempts to attack McPherson for being a flawed person will cause people to disregard or downplay his message. Not that it matters, I guess….! Whether people believe in NTE or not is not a requirement of the events to come.
I don’t think the “grief counseling” dealio or the touring is making him any great amount of money. He’s no Tony Robbins or Robert Tilton (I’ll get concerned when he starts selling prayer cloths). I think he’s doing the only thing he thinks he can do. What bugs me is that he’s then smug about it (“what’s not to love?”), but -yaknow- I don’t have to be friends with the guy, and I’m not sure what the intent or the goal is in attacking him personally.
—
Just to put things into context, if you want to make fun of someone sucked into a cult, my ex-yoga-teacher just sent out a plea for $55,000 (!) in funding so that she can go to NYC and do this:
http://gawker.com/my-life-with-the-thrill-clit-cult-1445204953
And I thought the Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo people were fucked up!
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I’m not sure what the intent or the goal is in attacking him personally […]
Same function as gossip: so you can find out if others think as you do. And what I found out is that I’m apparently the only one who finds McPherson about as charismatic as a dentist. No matter. He’s probably reaching a goodly number of the sort of people who are turned off by tub-thumpers, anyway.
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I should add that I find the charge that McPherson acts like a cult leader simply risible. Any of the several exposés of cults written by people who have escaped them – Don’t Call Me Brother and Monkey on a Stick, for example – should be enough to show how fatuous and borderline hysterical is the claim that McPherson is some kind of Svengali.
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Thank you, Lidia! I used to hang at NBL but then it got too weird. And like misericordia below, I find Guy… a very problematic individual, and not someone I want to hang out with. As to his message, well, he finally hit upon something so dire that he’s gathered a following. He was trying for some years with risible prophecies that never came true. He never did learn the lesson of the Witnesses whose lawyers told them to stop putting a date on it. 🙂
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All the McPherson bashing makes me sigh with disillusion. He’s not a saint, but then, none of us are. I also used to hang at NBL and contributed a few guest posts, but NBL went the way of many sites I’ve mostly left behind (including this one, where I’ve also guest blogged), which is to say, it was overrun by cranks and true believers of one stripe or another who mostly wanted the argue the details of (pre-)history and root causes (chasing chimeras, IMO) and future scenarios (which are always contingent until they become actual).
Having met the man just once, I found Guy earnest and gracious. Being constantly under attack means getting rankled once in a while, but he handles it pretty well, all things considered. Guy is doing what makes most sense to him as a teacher: keeping current on evidence and spreading the word. If anyone is trying to him the center of a cult (ineffectively), then it’s by turns hangers-on who feel the need to anoint a prophet and deniers who must kill the messenger to invalidate the message. It’s all so tiresome.
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Brutus, I have read you comments and writings here and at your site and you are a decent writer (made me think) and I even agree with many of your thoughts, but you is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to serious sometimes buddy. I have read many real and nasty attacks on Guy at many places on the tubes. I often defend his dot connecting except for the 2030 part. I don’t see anyone here hating on Guy, I know I’m not. More like a combination of calling him out and having a laugh at his expense and at the absurdity of it all. It’s the price of admission on planet ape, especially if you put yourself out there like that. Tiresome? Hell No! It was a reprieve from tiresome and I can’t wait for the next installment of “As the Doom Turns”
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Well Brutus, that’s your experience.
As far as I’m concerned it’s not bashing if it’s people’s experience.
Where do you stand on the Cosby situation? Would you/Do you rush to his defense still even after he testified on the stand that he did drug them, but so what it was happening all over at the time.
Sorry, bro, you choose to remain on the fringes. You know who I am, so I’ll just let you know a smidgen of my experiences. And Brutus you have chosen a different route than mine; I was in the “public eye” speaking about these issues and trying to create or join an IT or Eco-Village. It’s very different being a part of the room than standing in front of the room being apart from it.
I was lucky with old Baker to get out before we actually joined households and moved to VT together.
I can say with the same confidence that not moving to Belize was probably another stroke of luck.
What you experienced with McPherson is your business and happened to you. Only, it does not invalidate those experiences that didn’t go so well. Hey, if you put yourself in front of the room spouting these inane ideas and then display a behavior so far from it that your head would spin, you should be called out on it.
But you were not interested in Belize or considering joining that venture. And you probably weren’t waiting 3 hours for him, after setting up an appointment to sit down and talk with him after a lecture and have him tell you he’s too tired. You probably didn’t have a 3 hour trip home (after midnight the subway is a nightmare for those living in the outer boroughs of NYC) to seethe about it.
You also didn’t hear him tell you he doesn’t drink, but then on air 3 months later he talks about imbibing alcohol since 2011 when his wife came home to find him, Mike and Mike’s wife drinking liquor. And to listen to him talk about his previous night’s drinking with Peter Melton while they were on their talk circuit.
And Mr. Mc shouldn’t be talking about gays and lesbians in his talks. He isn’t one and hasn’t been part of our community (as far as I know) and knows very little about the fact that our “community” is as fractured and divided as all others. Queers do not want to know about Climate Change or Peak Oil or anything for the most part in the worst way. They do not wan to go home to small towns and villages again. They do not want to farm or work with animals. Gay marriage or not. All most want to do is shop till they drop.
By the way I did try to talk to him about the situation, but I found him not to be the easiest person to speak with and to raise such a sensitive topic when the situation is not conducive can be problematic at best. This interaction is why I did not go down to visit him in NM.
So, Brutus my man we are on completely different pages regarding this.
Having just had a NTE (yes, I do believe it’s very likely to happen this century, probably by mid century if not before the way things are going) support group implode due to one person’s personal agenda, it is a sad and heart wrenching experience to see that people who claim they believe in NTE are still behaving as badly as those they claim are bringing us to rack and ruin (of which all of us are part of in one way or another).
When I ran the first LAB (Local Advisory Board) election at WBAI/Pacific in NYC a number of years ago I got to see Ms. Goodman up close and personal, in my car for instance. I tired to get her to do a show on the election, while knowing she was supporting a particular slate. She refused, so there went any claim to objectivity. Goodman wants to shine the light in other directions even thought the same behavior was occurring right in her own home.
This his human behavior. By the by here’s a link to a pair of articles that Kathy McMahon wrote a number of years ago. It’s still relevant, perhaps more so today. I personally believe that gossip (in the way the Peak Shrink/Peak Oil Blues person wrote) is important and always was a part of human nature.
http://www.resilience.org/stories/2010-02-24/some-thoughts-psychology-community-parts-1-and-2
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Quite the outpouring, PMB. I don’t share your experience, so I obviously won’t dare to impeach it. My own intersections with doomer gurus and organizations (and political gurus and organizations) has been quite limited, but I agree with your report that they are plagued by all the usual human frailties. That’s why I limit my involvements. It’s too heartbreaking when the scales inevitably fall from the eyes.
BTW, I have been up in front of the room speaking repeatedly about a variety of issues. I find I cannot penetrate most folks’ psychological and intellectual defenses to make any points that stick.
Like your question about Cosby, some issues fall outside of any need for me to form an opinion based on sketchy information. Spin cycles distort so much of what we know today that I lack confidence to sally forth. Seems to me, however, that the impulse to deny, deny, deny until at last one cracks (a la Lance Armstrong) has caused everyone to be highly skeptical even if not withholding judgment.
I am almost completely unaware of some gambit to establish a beachhead in Belize — to what? Ride the storm out? Desperate silliness if one actually believes in NTE. I really regret that Guy aligned himself with Ms. Baker (and doomsteaders who reportedly soured). All very messy stuff, and I can appreciate that much of it draws fire. In Guy’s wake, numerous characters have stepped forward with their own stakes and programs, most of which are quite beyond Guy’s control. Being at the fringe, as you point out, I stay focused on the overarching story, not the details. I’m neither above the fray nor in the trenches.
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@PMB: Hey, if you put yourself in front of the room spouting these inane ideas and then display a behavior so far from it that your head would spin, you should be called out on it.
***
That is the point, precisely.
And no, it is decidedly NOT about gossip, or gossiping. It is about raising a legitimate alarm when someone is putting on the alpha hat (ie standing in the front of the room) talking one way, while walking another.
Guy McPherson has made an ongoing and concerted effort to create PR around himself that makes him sound like an heroic character. He thus gathers a following, more than a few of whom are rabid fans. Meanwhile, he’s hardly “walking away from Empire” just because he quits his professorship, while his wife still works, and he still has plenty of money, health insurance, etc. He preachers about authenticity while living a liar’s life. He tries to monetize the fear he stirs up by becoming a “certified” grief counselor after taking a weekend workshop with his “friend and colleague”. He talks about abandoning industrial civilization as our only hope, while hopping on airplanes to give talks that could be just as easily delivered over Skype. And speaking of Skype, he also offers his services as an NTE guru/teacher/facilitator over Skype for over a $1000 bucks.
In other words: bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.
That’s not to discount his legitimate work as a trained scientist picking through the data and discerning a pattern that bodes ill for our future. That’s controversial – but certainly legitimate.
But I can’t think of anyone else at the moment who’s gone so far off the reservation and is trying to so hard to garner PR, and enlisting a whole bunch of people to do it with him,and for him.
As I said already: This is toxic, and the doomer “tribe” is the worse for it. We don’t need another hero.
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Here’s Guy’s latest scheme for montetizing the apocalypse. It’s awesome.
http://www.onlyloveremains.org/
Make sure you check out the COST page:
http://www.onlyloveremains.org/cost.html
First he says (with a straight face) that “We practice and promote a gift economy”.
Then he goes on to clarify what exactly that means:
“Initial consultation, via Skype, with Guy and Pauline: $100. This call clarifies expectations for all parties and is therefore imperative. It must be completed before additional commitments are made.”
I couldn’t make this shit up. But if you want to get into Doomer standup, it’s some really terrific material to riff on.
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“Doom gossip.”
Who’d a thunk it?
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Sapiens A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8eSH07ftOk
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Starting to look like the 2016 Games will begin earlier than scheduled.
Brazil’s water crisis is so bad that the army is staging simulations of a mass uprising at the local water utility
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-brazilian-army-is-training-for-a-water-uprising-2015-8?utm_content=buffer10e3f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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Someone is always moving the coal posts.
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we do not wish to know that
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Apneaman said (above): “Not true, leaver. I spent 20 tears as a hard core drunkard and during the last 6-7 years I added on slamming needles full of cocaine and heroin into my arms for added effect. I fucking loved it! I’m not dead because I made the choice to quit. It was not easy, but no one else decide for me. I know many who are now dead and many still doing it. Sure some feel they have no choice, but many won’t give it up because they don’t want to – they like it in spite of the risks and harm to others. What I did was find and/or go back to a number of different dopamine delivery systems. That we cannot live without our dopamine rewards is where we are bereft of choice. My previous dopamine delivery choices were condemned by the greater society as destructive to myself and them – I was a threat. If I was like Rex Tillerson, I would be held up as a goddamn genuine capitalist hero. Why? Cause he is the dealer for their drug of choice. The one that makes the endless stream of super hyper stimuli possible. WE LOVE IT!”
Are you saying that because we love the dopamine high, it’s not a choice? That makes no sense…. Sane people find D in activities that enhance their lives. Others find them in self- and other-destructive activities. And yet others are able to switch. You validate my claim, then. You had a choice. Interestingly, people who get their D from power/wealth/status are promoted, while people who get it from say heroin are destroyed or damaged — not by the drug, but by the society that runs the Drug War.
Why do you think that is, Apneaman? A clever camouflage for the most destructive addiction of all?
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I think the dopamine reward system combined with the big brain is a maladaptation. My choice was only one a flavors – not opting out. The odds, for people as fucked up as I was of stopping/changing/surviving are slim indeed. Probably less than 5% which I bet is way more than will ever opt out of their high consumption lifestyle. Not able or not willing or a combination thereof what’s the difference? Damage done. We could pull the plug tomorrow and it won’t make a difference. We have screwed the biosphere for millennia. Once the inertia kicks in it’s game over for most apes and maybe all. While we wait for that, the power coalitions are going to tear each other apart in a bid to consume the last of the yeast. Same as it ever was.
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Hmmm…. if a person finds D in running, or in studying languages, for example, how is that maladaptive? I am new to this, so I am not poopooing what you are saying, I am trying to understand. If you accuse nature of screwing up, you better have a good argument for it, eh?
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I say it’s maladaptive because our technological evolution has out paced our psychological/emotional evolution by orders of magnitude. How long would it take for the collective to evolve the true sapience needed to handle such power even if it was possible? I don’t think nature screwed up because that implies agency or a plan. I think some of our monkey ancestors just reacted to the great rift valley opening up and changing their circumstances leading to an adapt or perish scenario and it just kept going with a few mutations thrown in. If not for that, we would probably never be here. Even folks who recite Sanskrit while jogging, go jet setting, drive SUV’s, own McMansions, cheat, lie, steal, love their kids and do charity work. Harmless or destructive the pathways to reward are not mutually exclusive.
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Well, it seems to me here is our chance to get a better handle on the dopamine dilemma, now that neurotransmitters are getting well known. I think it’s up to us to find the balance; evolve, if we must, into better balance.
Like James says, a virtuous circle (like running, being fit) can turn into a vicious circle when you don’t lean when to quit. I know a person who killed herself with too much water intake. Nevertheless, virtuous circles are awesome, and lifegiving. We would fare poorly without dopamine at all.
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Here’s a fella who has made “Dopamine Addiction” awareness his life’s work.
http://dopamineproject.org/
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The implications of the thesis presented in The Dopamine Project are too horrible to contemplate. One of the implications is: there’s no one to blame. Sometimes I fancy I’ve lifted the veil and glimpsed the howling emptiness behind the human phenomenon, but after reading a few articles on the site I feel sick with terror. Why go on?
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Just to chime-in for a moment, could we say that some people get a dopamine high by taking most of the available reward for themselves through manipulating political processes and other people, while leaving those without adequate opportunity to find happiness in the bottom of a bottle or syringe or box of twinkies?
There’s always the more kosher approach of taking anti-depressant soma to keep you moving in an unrewarding environment that feeds most of the rewards to a small sociopathic percentage of the population. And doesn’t that small percentage of the population want you to get your dopamine from their retail establishments, where they can take a cut of the revenue? War on Drugs, War on Alternative Dopamine.
People don’t have a choice, no dopamine, no move. We have a person here that ran so much they almost killed themselves. Addiction, you gotta love it, until it kills you.
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“could we say that some people get a dopamine high by taking most of the available reward for themselves through manipulating political processes and other people”
We could, and we do. In ancient tribes, they used to ostracize them or kill em. Now we elect them into high positions. Insanity run rampant. Some, true, are talented, and could be a plus if they had to toe limits. Others are power-mad and will do anything.
I am thinking… War on Drugs, to distract from the real menace: addiction to power/money/status. And as a plus, you get the profits and the chance to abuse people who are partial to the drugs you happen to be “fighting.” Another squirt of D for those who lust for money and power-over-others.
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Norm, started your book the other day-excellent! ( anyone who doesn’t have it-only a dollar for the Kindle version!) Just what I’ve been hoping to find-a thorough explanation of oil (energy in general) as the lifeblood of our world. Thanks!
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thanks Peter—it really helps to know I’m saying the right things
If you feel inclined to put an assessment of it on Amazon—that would be very welcome and useful to others looking for the same info
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Looks like there will be some use for all that unwanted fracking condensate after all.
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yes i would have thought those balls should be white, not black
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1177 BC: The Year Civilization Collapsed
Dr. Eric H. Cline
Professor of Classics and Anthropology
For more than three hundred years during the Late Bronze Age, from about 1500 BC to 1200 BC, the Mediterranean region played host to a complex international world in which Egyptians, Mycenaeans, Minoans, Hittites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Cypriots, and Canaanites all interacted, creating a cosmopolitan and globalized world-system such as has only rarely been seen before the current day. It may have been this very internationalism that contributed to the apocalyptic disaster that ended the Bronze Age. When the end came, as it did after centuries of cultural and technological evolution, the civilized and international world of the Mediterranean regions came to a dramatic halt in a vast area stretching from Greece and Italy in the west to Egypt, Canaan, and Mesopotamia in the east. Large empires and small kingdoms, that had taken centuries to evolve, collapsed rapidly. With their end came the world’s first recorded Dark Ages.
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Too bad he chickened out on the “steps to take.” With his background, it could have been interesting.
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this could boost China’s GDP better then yuan devalutation
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I love how RT just shows the clip without the propaganda meat robot with a 5 year degree in teleprompter reading telling the sheep what to think and feel about the images. No wonder the western PTB feel threatened by them.
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A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
“In just the latest ramification of the new Dark Age advancing on Europe, 1,000 Afghan and Syrian refugees who had made their way to the Greek Island of Kos were rounded up by riot police yesterday (after having been herded with fire extinguishers) and imprisoned in an open stadium until they could be “registered.” At last report there were three — count them, three — officers taking names. It is not that the authorities are heartless, they are overwhelmed. Those 1,000 refugees are not all the refugees on Kos, that is how many refugees arrive every day. “The situation on the island is out of control,” said the mayor of Kos, “blood will be shed.”
“Greece faces a crisis within a crisis,” said prime minister Alexis Tsipras. “The migrant flows exceed the capacity of our state infrastructure.” About 120,000 refugees have stumbled ashore on the Greek Islands so far this year, four times the influx during all of 2014. The other principal landing for refugees traveling to Europe by boat, Italy, estimates that 100,000 have come aground there this year. ”
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Flashback to 1966:
From the book Weather and Climate Modification Problems and Prospects: Final Report of the Panel on Weather and Climate Modification, Volumes 1-2, published in 1966…
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Bad news for humans…
and
Major “shocks” to global food production will be three times more likely within 25 years because of an increase in extreme weather brought about by global warming, warns a new report.
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“Steps to take” that most nobody wants to hear: 1. Incentivize childlessness. 2. Popularize monasteries with an emphasis on sincere non-ownership or use of much stuff, as in Ch’an/Zen or Trappists. 3. Incentivize and enable checking out at 65 (I can say this, I’m 66 and pretty much done here).
No, they don’t fix it, but at least there is dopamine for trying (up to the end of 3.). ^_^
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Risa,
Applause, applause, applause for your honesty and openness, even here in the vast virtual world of anonymity I’m appreciative for someone to raise this issue.
A while back, when I was still following NBL regularly, and occasionally commenting I raised the exact suggestion you just did regarding checking out or not choosing to extend your life via the medical industry (as on Carolyn Baker did).
The blowback was quite interesting especially from an artslover who is well beyond their sell by date (they outdistance you and i (57) by a decade I believe) yet they and others are holding on with both hands held tightly so they can go on and on and on using resources that should go to others and really just sitting and pontificating day and day after day.
I’ve applauded those people who have decided to check out in a calm and peaceful way taking the decision out of the systems hands and putting it into their own.
I do believe more people should really think about the situation as you (and I) have and especially those who claim to love their children and grandchildren and not just keep using resources which we can scarcely spare or allow those boat people (as long as they promise to not breed anymore (tying tubes or vasectomies) to have some of the pleasures of life.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/feb/15/tai-altman-knew-parents-going-to-kill-themselves
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/retired-british-art-teacher-ends-life-at-dignitas-because-she-couldnt-adapt-to-modern-world-9242053.html
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What kind of worldview results when one reduces all human motivation to a search for a chemical rush or state supposedly caused by a neurological release of dopamine? Doesn’t this move reduce all the higher emotions of selfless giving and love to a simple selfish craving for a chemical turn on? If one applies this understanding to all human behavior, doesn’t it condemn all of us to being nothing more than meat robots without real choice about our behavior. A sense of contempt for humans and their deluded ideas of freedom will soon follow from such a deconstructive framing of their behavior. But doesn’t this whole worldview actually play a part in our failure to take a proactive stance towards our problems? After all what can you expect from a meat robot totally under the control of primitive biological conditioning?
The philosophic position of hedonism has been around as long as philosophy has existed. Man seeks pleasure above all else: everything a person does can be seen as a move to maximize pleasure. Other possibilities or explanations for behavior are only smokescreens concealing the real bottom line which is the drive to maximize pleasure. After deconstructing all of the so called higher motives a person might entertain, I wonder if those pushing this view are aware of how much they are aiding the process of our likely self-destruction by doing so? Do these folks understand how nicely this fits with the programs of capitalist cynicism? Our masters like nothing better than messages to the people they control that resistance is not only futile – it is impossible for those completely in thrall to their lower drives. They would like us to accept that we are nothing more than helpless consumers of the supposed dopamine releasing gadgets and circuses that they so thoughtfully provide.
The reason that the Chinese elites felt so threatened by the seemingly innocent yoga exercises etc. of the Falun Gong movement is that it offered Chinese an alternative to the conformist trance so beloved of dictatorial regimes. God forbid anything awaken people beyond the most superficial levels of desires and conformity. The disenchantment of the world must be maintained at all cost against a world view full of choices and rich possibilities beyond the repetitive propaganda and regimentation of the modern equivalents of 1984.
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Bravo, mike k.
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Other possibilities or explanations for behavior are only smokescreens concealing the real bottom line which is the drive to maximize pleasure.
Which suggests that the highly simplistic dopamine hypothesis is a classic paradigm trap. That is, the hypothesis can’t be falsified because evidence adduced to falsify it is really evidence that the hypothesis is sound.
We are, or should be, familiar with the religion paradigm trap:
“We are all sinners.”
“Nonsense.”
“You fail to see that you are a sinner because you are a sinner; your sin prevents recognition of your sinful nature.”
Similarly, “All human motivation is reducible to the operation of the dopamine reward system.”
“Nonsense.”
“You don’t grok it because the thesis is a threat to your dopamine flow. The mechanism that makes you a dopamine fiend is the mechanism preventing you from seeing that you are one.”
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I dont agree with the aptly phrased dopamine hypothesis either. Im an example of someone who doesnt fit into the theory.
Ive tried to live for a very long time, and have been successful in every significant way, to NOT live by “what feels good”, or by instant (or delayed) gratification. I have made it one of my purposes in this life to live by principle, and very, very often, that means there is NO reward, nor is there any expectation of any reward in the future, or even after death.
Its not a traditionally “pleasant” life. As an example, I do not eat any kind of meat for ethical reasons. It is just not something I wish to participate in, nor will I ever again (including in a survival situation. No, I wouldnt. And yes, I do know how I would react in such a situation).
Its not pleasant to refuse something that has both short and long term positive affects on dopamine. Short should be obvious, and long term because plant based protein is hard to come by in significant quantity and is hard for me to digest, and your body needs protein for long term health, thus in the long run increase pleasure indirectly by providing it with easily assimilated nutrients, meaning less strain and better general health.
It would be easier, and happier, for me to just say “fuck it” and eat meat like I used to, as I was brought up to eat it. My body would probably be in a more comfortable state as well.
I do this on principle, with no expectation of reward at all. None. And indeed, there is no reward, not even a “dopamine drip” from a self-righteous smugness that many people feel when they choose to do such things. In fact its very awkward for me to tell people that I dont eat meat. Its taboo, and I dont get a rush from strange looks and being thought of as a loon. I basically just keep it to myself.
And no, I have not have substituted old pleasures with new ones.
Thats just a single example in my life of how Ive chosen to live in opposition to normal peoples way of living. Its not pleasurable. But my philosophy on life is much different than others, and staying true to my philosophy is very important to me. Paramount to that philosophy is sticking to ones principles no matter what, and that when doing so, it is accepted that there is no reward for doing it. Otherwise, you are doing it for the reward, not for the principle of it.
So I disagree fundamentally with the dopamine hypothesis and being driven by the unstoppable urge to maximize personal pleasure.
I dont live with many pleasures, self-indulgent or otherwise. Is pleasure and principle mutually exclusive? Not necessarily, no. It depends on ones principles. Holding to mine just so happens to involve excluding a lot of potential, easily available pleasure.
And I do so willingly, of my own free choice, without expectation of reward, and indeed, receiving none in the process.
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My whole point being that pleasure is simply not the only motivator there can be. Its certainly a big one, but not the only one, as is implied a lot of the time. Many actions do not result in immediate pleasure, nor in the expectation of any form of future pleasure.
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http://aeon.co/magazine/philosophy/why-stoicism-is-one-of-the-best-mind-hacks-ever/
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Jack, where exactly are you living that being a vegetarian is looked upon with such horror? I was married to a vegetarian and even a decade ago Burger King had a fake veggie Burger and the grocery store had a whole isle of shit including this revolting product called Tofurkey…….Yuck!
It’s actually anticipation of reward and the reward may vary and even be simply avoiding pain – like starving or having no status. Absence or reduction of pain and discomfort does not necessarily equate to pleasure.
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No, indeed, and as mike k so eloquently says, the pleasure principle narrows the choices before us, such as to do good for transcendent reasons like, say, honoring the past or one’s ancestors or one’s fellow creatures, to, as Jung put it, “kindle the light of meaning in the darkness of mere being.” It doesn’t matter that meaning has no meaning. It is creating meaning that has meaning.
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But honoring ancestors or other “transcendent” activities.. if you acknowledge that has no meaning, is still the same kind of dopamine stimulus, is it not? It isn’t so absolute a sacrifice as it might appear, because it makes people “feel good” in their social context.
Though not using conventional channels of “pleasure”, religious martyrs and renunciates become ecstatic with their degree of self-sacrifice. It’s all the same broth.
“It doesn’t matter that meaning has no meaning. It is creating meaning that has meaning.” I understand what you are saying but find it rather silly from a bird’s-eye view. If something doesn’t have lasting meaning, to what degree does it have meaning at all? It’s all entirely subjective.
We can “kindle meaning” but to do so we still have to burn the furniture.
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Well, yes. The examples I gave happen to be the straws I have clutched at since the ground has been cut away from under my feet upon learning that the stories we tell ourselves are just stories, and that these stories have brought us out onto a precipice from which there is no retreat. And that below looms an unfathomable darkness. I admit it. But what else am I to do? We’ve both read Straw Dogs and The Silence of Animals so we are both familiar with how humans confuse meaning with (empirical) truth. Gray lays everything so bare that it invites the awful realization that the human animal has arrived at the end of its long adventure absolutely bankrupt and with nothing left to do other than face the terrible truth.
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Forgot to ad this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Falun_Gong
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It’s not as if dopamine and other neurotransmitters are not an important dimension of the overall human experience and its problems. But if we give that reality too much emphasis we may become guilty of what Ken Wilber calls perspectival imperialism – attempting to dominate discourse from one point of view. Reality is richly complex and requires a variety of approaches to begin to understand it. An example of this is the war on drugs.
Johann Hari in his recent book Chasing the Scream points out that the addictive power of some drugs has been exaggerated in order to demonize them and make it seem they are the sole cause of addiction. The social context in which addiction to drugs occurs has been ignored as a causative factor, as well as the role of prior traumatic experience in creating the type of person prone to become addictive. Cocaine and heroin are nowhere near as automatically addicting as they have been portrayed. In the same way, those whose neurotransmitters are in fairly good balance are not as driven to seek dopamine and come under domination from craving it as might be the case for those severely deficient in it. The simplistic portrait of the human as a mechanism driven by a few basic drives and internal structures is inadequate to deal with our real complexity, and the rich variety of options open to us.
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“Addiction” is very simple.
People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers.
PTSD mostly – for which there is as yet no medical test.
Dr. Lonny Shavelson found that 70% of female heroin addicts were sexually abused in childhood.
So has there been a major study of PTSD vs drug use? Of course not. The cat would be out of the bag. Persecuting the afflicted is not popular in the US. Mostly. So to keep a lid on there is silence. Bet you never heard of Dr. Shavelson.
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From a conversation on America2.0:
Lawrence Crowell (goldenfieldquaternions@gmail.com) via googlegroups.com
12:00 PM (1 hour ago):
The Siberian traps volcanic activity took place 250-251 million years ago. So it was comparatively brief geologically. While it is the case that our CO2 releases are only a couple of centuries old, the long term effect will be permafrost and methane clathrate melting in the arctic and the oceans. That will release over 10 times the amount of CO2 we humans directly release. Our fossil fuel CO2 pulse will serve potentially as a trigger for a much larger event. That could amount to a longer term process than a few centuries, particularly if it lead to the 10 million year biodiversity drought of the Permian-Triassic extinction.
Me: Essentially, we have negated the next Ice Age that would have occurred 50,000 years from now. An eventual 50 to 75 foot SLR is already baked in. I highly recommend this book for a general description of what to expect with each degree of global warming:
Mark Lynas: Six Degrees of Warming: Our Future on a Hotter Planet
A degree-by-degree summary is here:
http://larry-thoughtsandmusings.blogspot.com/2013/11/several-degrees-of-warming.html
And also this brief interview with Dennis Meadows:
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Plant Food is pollution?
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M Simon,
We don’t tolerate misinformed and uneducated comments about anthropogenic climate change. Please educate yourself:
CO2 is plant food – Skeptical Science
http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-plant-food.htm
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There is no solution to the climate change problem as long as we do not address the social factors that count.
There is no solution to the overpopulation problem as long as we do not address the social factors that count.
There is no solution to the resource depletion problem as long as we do not address the social factors that count.
There is no solution to the mass extinction problem as long as we do not address the social factors that count.
There is no solution to the ocean acidification problem as long as we do not address the social factors that count.
There is no solution to the global deforestation problem as long as we do not address the social factors that count.
There is no solution to the ecosystem collapse problem as long as we do not address the social factors that count.
There is no solution to the industrial pollution problem as long as we do not address the social factors that count.
There is no solution to the bloodthirsty rapacious capitalism problem as long as we do not address the social factors that count.
There is no solution to the nuclear holocaust problem as long as we do not address the social factors that count.
Need I continue?
Those so-called “social factors that count” are hard wired into our mammalian brains. Until, of course, those factors run up against hard bio-physical planetary limits, at which point we find ourselves in the situation we are in today: An evolutionary dead-end.
Oh well, it was a nice ride while it lasted.
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Czech spiders specialist raises alarm over species extinction
“Currently we know about 27 species that have probably gone extinct in the Czech Republic and there are another 92 that are close to extinction, which means that they will probably die out in the near future. So I would consider the situation to be really dangerous.
“But of course it depends on your point of view. Some people are more interested in historical monuments. People are horrified when they see videos of IS members destroying archaeological sites.
“But let me remind you that while these sites are about 2,000 years old, every single spider species is several million years old, so in my point of view it is really sad that we are losing the variety of species and I definitely consider it a serious problem.”
~~~~~~~~~~~
Meat-eaters may speed worldwide species extinction, study warns: According to a team of scientists, human carnivory—and its impact on land use—is the single biggest threat to much of the world’s flora and fauna.
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Well,this should start a row.
http://www.activistpost.com/2015/08/why-the-chemtrail-conspiracy-is-real.html?utm_content=buffer54ec9&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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And they’re all screaming “Hope and Change, Hope and Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaange.”
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Why would one sheep politely back off a cliff,hurriedly? lol
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I love this cartoon so much I printed it out and pinned it to the wall right next to my head. I gaze on it lovingly throughout the day and smile to myself.
What sublime pleasure it is to know that I am right and the whole rest of the world is wrong!
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nope—I’m right too, I did the same thing
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Bankers and their political/business associates have been involved in legerdemain. By maintaining people’s attention on sports and celebrity faux reality, they have been able to push growth to unimaginable levels. Why? Because the larger the cancer becomes, in population and economically, the greater the cut they can take for themselves. They are the primary obstacle to any discussion concerning population or growth control. These ideas are never fully discussed in the media and therefore deemed unimportant. Minds of the proletariat that are unprepared to think much in any case are preoccupied with “tribal” news, gossip, deaths, births, who did what to whom. Even now the human RNA remain distracted with the Trump and Hillary circuses.
Americans don’t realize that there’s a great equilibrium being established in wage rates between themselves and China and the third world. Business so despises paying labor a fair amount that they will set the deflationary dominoes in motion. Once wages have fallen precipitously and asset values have plummeted, those connected to the banks will stroll in and buy everything of value for cents on the dollar while employing their spy and policing networks to suppress the bankrupted middle-class. Additionally, a scapegoat will be found on which to pin fault for middle-class misfortunes. Trump is blaming illegal aliens while the Neocons are blaming Putin. Show me a politician that will run on the platform of eliminating the FED and the too big to fail banks. It won’t happen because most politicians want to be part of the scavenging orgy to devour the assets of the soon to be dead middle-class.
The new lower-class will be begging for sustenance and what they will be offered is much the same as the common Chinese factory fodder. Only enough to keep them working and alive. With less net energy from oil in the future this is what must happen – to the middle-class, the fall-guy of the twenty-first century.
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I am seeing and hearing of more tent cities popping up all over the place in the Vancouver area and it’s the same for most countries in the rich west. In BC the funding for mental health facilities has been decimated over the last 15 years along with many other services for the “less fortunate”. The middle class don’t like their consumer paradise and property values being affected by the mentally challenged drug addicted criminal element – NIMBY. The money for the medical system to manage these people and keep the middle class in cheap insulin, anti depressants and statin drugs is just not there anymore – somebody has to do something about it god damn it! My Mom lives six blocks from this new tent city and since it went up a few cars in the underground parkade have been broken into and one was stolen. On recycling day the junkies come around and rifle through the bins for bottles and cans. She doesn’t believe me when I tell her this is the new and growing normal and she should move away from the urban sprawl.
Maple Ridge homeless camp grows to more than 100 people
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/b-c/maple-ridge-homeless-camp-grows-to-more-than-100-people-1.1972806
Of course the response to overshoot has been the promotion of a middle class breeding program ………
Stephen Harper announces family tax cut, child care benefit boost
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-harper-announces-family-tax-cut-child-care-benefit-boost-1.2818591
And more Tar Sands.
The Canadian Government Paid $1M for Research to Promote the Tar Sands
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-canadian-government-paid-1m-for-research-to-promote-the-tar-sands?utm_source=mbfb
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Americans don’t realize that there’s a great equilibrium being established in wage rates between themselves and China and the third world.
“Even now many people fail to grasp the true meaning of the word “austerity”. Austerity is not eight years of spending cuts, as in the UK, or even the social catastrophe inflicted on Greece. It means driving the wages, social wages and living standards in the west down for decades until they meet those of the middle class in China and India on the way up.” — Paul Mason, Postcapitalism
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“As proletarization of the middle class becomes more apparent, the current global crisis will evolve into a middle class crisis of alienation, stratification, and erratic class/status identity. A more acceptable solution for US government and mainstream institutions is: a) find another job to supplement existing income, b) work harder to secure higher wages, c) plan and invest better and pray for luck, d) return to school for more education or re-training; and e) wait for “lady luck” to ring your doorbell because having conformed to the Calvinist work ethic is just not enough! If indeed the assumptions of the US government (and the entire mainstream institutional structure) that “securing a middle class” is the key to the American Dream, how do we explain US public opinion polls indicating that the “happiness” level (granted the obvious difficulty of quantifying it), has been under 50% and steadily declining since 1970, despite enjoying the world’s highest GDP?”
http://www.countercurrents.org/kofas170815.htm
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Scientists find evidence of prehistoric massacre in Europe
“What is particularly interesting is the level of violence. Not just the suppression of a rival community — if that is what it was — but the egregious and systematic breaking of the lower legs,” said Scarre. “It suggests the use of terror tactics as part of this inter-community violence.”
Meyer, an anthropologist at the University of Mainz, Germany, said nobody can say for sure what prompted the killings so long after the fact. But it’s possible to put forward theories, based on what’s known about the LBK culture and the conditions they faced. For example, the end of LBK culture coincided with a period of climate change.”
“The LBK population had expanded considerably, and this increases the potential for conflict,” said Meyer. “Also, the LBK were farmers, they settled. So unlike hunter gatherers, who could move away to avoid conflict, these people couldn’t just escape. Add to this the fact that there may have been a period of drought that constrained resources, causing conflicts to erupt.”
“It’s likely that the young women, who are missing in the grave, were kidnapped by the attackers,” said Meyer.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/763a01f014264d04b89b14770ff064bf/scientists-find-evidence-prehistoric-massacre-europe
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Notable headlines:
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Oh good thing I hit refresh before commenting. I was just about to post the overkill hypothesis link.
Here is a better ancient history related link about the coolest people of all.
Fossil study: Dogs evolved with climate change
August 18, 2015
http://phys.org/news/2015-08-fossil-dogs-evolved-climate.html
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Climate Change Deniers Present Graphic Description Of What Earth Must Look Like For Them To Believe
“For us to accept that the average surface temperature of the Earth has risen to critical levels due to mankind’s production of greenhouse gases, we’ll need to see some actual, visible evidence, including a global death toll of no less than 500 million people within a single calendar year,” said spokesperson William Davis, 46, of Jackson, NJ, who added that at least 70 percent of all islands on the planet would also have to become submerged under rising seas before he and his cohort would reconsider their beliefs. “To start, we’re going to have to see supercell tornadoes of category F4 or higher ripping through Oklahoma at least three times a day, leveling entire communities and causing hundreds of fatalities—and just to be perfectly clear, we’re talking year-round, not just during the spring tornado season.”
““I don’t think it’s too much to ask to see a super hurricane destroying the Southeast U.S. and another one at the same time decimating the Pacific Northwest before I make up my mind about this,” said global warming skeptic Michelle Wilkinson of Medina, MN”
http://www.theonion.com/article/climate-change-deniers-present-graphic-description-51129
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Those sound like some real tough people, but they’ll be the first to be climbing under mama’s skirt when things get rough. They can’t even accept the concept of global warming – they’ll be on their knew prayin to Jesus when climate hammer hits them. What the f&*k is the matter with people? I’m not so sure I care to know any more. Trump will straighten things out. 🙂
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On previous occasions I had said that the dead pines (Bugwood) in BC make the wildfires worse from added fuel. This piece claims otherwise. Does it even matter? I always pay attention to the comments from the fire fighters, especially the experienced ones, and for a number of years now their observations all sound eerily similar ‘never seen anything like it’ or some variation of it.
Bark Beetles and Forest Fires: Another Myth Goes Up in Smoke
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/28/bark-beetles-and-forest-fires-another-myth-goes-up-in-smoke/
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http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-macedonia-greece-migrants-20150821-story.html
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I think I’ll pass on a move to Belize:
Pauline Panagiotou Schneider
Learn to live in love. Not in fear.
Guy McPherson Excellent advice. It’s easy in theory and difficult in practice, especially within this culture. More than anything else, I fear losing love. It’s so rare.
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Pauline Panagiotou Schneider real love is extremely rare. Fear is as common as the flu.
1 hr · Like · 6
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I sense a provocation coming on. Macedonia is a useless lens through which to look at the problem of displaced people, and the wider problem of mammalian fear as a response to the encroachment of the ‘other.’
Macedonia is, in the view or the neoliberal order, an outlier nation that has not yet (along with Serbia and Republika Srpska) been brought into line with the Washington consensus. Witness Victoria Nuland’s recent Balkan tour during which she laid out, with surprising subtlety (for her), the urgent necessity of all players to lay their nationalistic impulses to rest in the interests of the US State Department’s globalist aspirations, er, I mean, local economic interests as part of the wider EU trade apparatus where all people will benefit from resource appropriations, sorry, I mean sharing.
If you think fear is as common as the ‘flu, please don’t spread it about.
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I was examining a satellite view of Las Vegas tonight in preparation for my next Megacancer post and noticed that the entire lesion is fed by only a few highways and Union Pacific Railway. Bodies have nutrients pumped through them by specialized organs commonly referred to as hearts. The internal combustion engine and associated cargo areas could be thought of as distributed heart cells. Imagine a giant heart somewhere in Kansas pumping nutrients and eliminating waste throughout the entire United States. For various reasons that can’t happen, but the motive force can be distributed throughout all of the individual freight moving vehicles. About 68% of all freight in the United States is moved by truck and according to analysts like B.W. Hill the oil business will basically be dead after 2022.
It makes you wonder if our federal emergency planners are taking measures to ameliorate our impending heart attack. And basically a heart attack on a technological level means that materials for factories and food, diapers, toilet paper and so forth don’t get delivered to the cells which subsequently die. Once the tools lock up and the RNA scatter, that’s it, it’s not going to be reborn. Unbelievable they’re concentrating on terrorists that can take down a few building on their best day. Just forget all the paper assets, they’re toast. But if the oil goes, the motive force for the technological heart, then massive death ensues. Where’s Homeland Security on that?
Does it seem like the Saudis have decided to kill the United States because we haven’t taken a tough stance with Iran? Perhaps they’ll kill-off our domestic production and then cut way back on their exports. That could cause some stress, might have to go in for a few stents on that one.
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The Hopium never ends.
Mississippi River Mouth Must Be Abandoned to Save New Orleans from Next Hurricane Katrina
“Extensive studies done after Katrina verified what lifelong residents of southeastern Louisiana already knew: Unless the rapidly disappearing wetlands are made healthy again, restoring the natural defense, New Orleans will soon lay naked against the sea (see satellite image, below).
So, how does one reengineer the entire Mississippi River delta—one of the largest in the world—on which New Orleans lies?
Three international engineering and design teams have reached a startling answer: leave the mouth of the Mississippi River to die. Let the badly failing wetlands there completely wither away, becoming open water, so that the upper parts of the delta closer to the city can be saved.”
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mississippi-river-mouth-must-be-abandoned-to-save-new-orleans-from-next-hurricane-katrina/
New Orleans and its three-century history of battling water
“From the start, New Orleans’ history has been bound to water. Or, rather, efforts to keep it away. The city is shaped like a saucer — its edges on higher ground, its center below sea level. Surrounded by lakes and 100 miles from the hurricane-churning Gulf of Mexico, its contours invite flooding.”
https://timeline.com/stories/new-orleans-floods
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To paraphrase a line from Sam Kinison:
We have flood zones in America,but you shouldn’t live there,ASSHOLES!
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http://robinwestenra.blogspot.co.nz/2015/08/an-emblem-of-human-greed-and-insanity.html
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Hey meester, wanna see some filthey peechers (You Are Here – 5).
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http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/01/the-shrinking-glaciers-of-austria
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I’m waiting for the next essay to enlighten the world with my brilliant comments.
roflmao
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How Will the 99% Deal with 70 Million Psychopaths?
http://www.cognitivepolicyworks.com/blog/2012/07/24/how-will-the-99-deal-with-70-million-psychopaths/
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Watch what happens to Telly Savales in the movie “The Dirty Dozen.” When Savales was playing Kojak in days gone by he visited one of our neighbors and gave him a sucker made of gold. Kojak always had a sucker in his mouth in the series. He was a nice guy but made a great villain. But I think what happens to “Maggot” in the movie will be a likely scenario.
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The 99% can try to focus the 70 million on the 1%.
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No word from Mike since 20 Aug. Are you researching an essay,on holiday,or just taking a break from it all for a while,Mike?
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Since xraymike’s not here let’s all talk about him.The bad please,only the bad.
roflmao
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I know a couple things about Mike other than that his name is not, in fact, Mike. One is that he wears sunglasses indoors. The other is that he has watched The Big Lebowski, like, dozens of times.
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Hmmm. I have transition glasses that I wear half the time. I was recently astonished to find out that for the last 2 years the technology has finally been dialed in on contacts that correct for both near and farsightedness. I bought a pair.
Yes, the Big Lebowski is a classic for me, but anything by the Coen brothers is right up my alley.
Norman Pagett sent me another essay to publish, but I initially felt it was not up to par with his first two, so there it sits in my email waiting for me to read the second draft.
It’s a mad, mad world and there’s no point in lamenting it.
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xraymike
You may want to reconsider keeping “The Burning Platform” in your links as they are now promoting Climate Denial. Not that it matter anymore I guess.
Arctic Has Gained Hundreds Of Miles Of Ice The Last Three Years7
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Now here is an ominous, fascinating area of research: Public Memory Suppression and the Hidden Landscape
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Public memory suppression in the post-conflict landscape of Honduras
Examines the struggle between the Honduran political elite and families of victims of human rights abuse concerning the creation of collective memory sites, and offers a model for political dissent over past struggles and the unmarked sites of these struggles that have been removed from public view.
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From Shannon Lamb’s facebook page:

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Did you know about this?
Shannon Lamb Dead: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
http://heavy.com/news/2015/09/shannon-lamb-delta-state-university-professor-eric-schmidt-facebook-wife/
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Could Climate Change Cause Another Holocaust?
Timothy Snyder’s new book identifies the conditions that allowed the Holocaust—conditions our society today shares
“The book’s aim was to offer a corrective. Snyder aimed to explain what made killing on such a scale possible, tracing how both Hitler and Stalin played out their fantasies of empire and conquest on the same territory, destroying polities and the people they believed were in their way, whether Ukrainian, Polish or Jewish. This new narrative framed the Holocaust as part of a wider phenomenon of mass murder, making Jews one set of victims among the 14 million who were killed. Certainly Jews were unique in this story for their status as nonbeings in Nazi cosmology; but he saw what happened to them from a broader perspective, as the result of a unique and deadly politics that emerged in the Bloodlands.”
“As Snyder makes clear in an apocalyptic conclusion, these conditions are not particular to the 1930s and 40s, to the Nazis and the Jews, and they could come together again to lead to mass murder on a global scale. In fact, Snyder sees in the disruptions caused by climate change—which, among other things, will reduce the amount of arable land and potable water on earth—a potential threat that could trigger a new Holocaust.”
“Hitler envisioned a kind of colonial manifest destiny—actually modeled on the American push past the Mississippi—that would involve conquering the fertile Ukraine and subduing its Slav population for the benefit of the superior German people.
Yet, standing in the way of German triumph, as Hitler saw it, were the Jews. The Nazis wrote and spoke about the Jews as a planetary, ecological problem—a non-race, a bacteria, who have managed to enslave the Germans by distracting them from taking what should be theirs. ”
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122806/could-climate-change-cause-another-holocaust
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