Tags
Biophysical Economics, Climate Change, Collapse of Industrial Civilization, Ecological Overshoot, Energy is God, Environmental Collapse, Jevons Paradox, Money = Energy, Offshoring of CO2 Emissions, Second Law of Thermodynamics, Superorganism of Industrial Civilization, Tim Garrett
“…the Second Law also demands that nothing can do anything without consuming concentrated energy, or fuel, and then dissipating it as unusable waste heat. For example, the Earth “consumes” concentrated sunlight to power weather and the water cycle, and then radiates unusable thermal energy to the cold of space. Like the weather in our atmosphere, all economic actions and motions, even our thoughts, must also be propelled by a progression from concentrated fuel to useless waste heat. The economy would grind to a halt absent continued energetic input. Buildings crumble; people die; technology becomes obsolete; we forget. Civilization must constantly consume in order to sustain itself against this constant loss of energy and matter…” ~ Tim Garrett
On average the human brain experiences 70,000 thoughts daily and requires roughly 24 watts or roughly 500 Calories during that time to function. To keep modern civilization running, 17 trillion Watts of power are consumed, 4% of which goes to keeping humanity’s 7 billion bodies alive while the rest powers our buildings, machines, and agriculture. The laws of thermodynamics require that all systems, whether natural or inorganic, evolve and grow through the conversion of environmental potential energy into a dissipated form known commonly as waste heat. Most of the energy we need to run industrial civilization still comes from fossil fuels with coal being the primary source, and projections are that this will remain so far into the future. Since fossil fuels give off nasty greenhouse gasses that heat up the planet and destabilize the biosphere, the obvious question is whether our economic engine can be decoupled from CO2 emissions.
Atmospheric scientist Tim Garrett has a few papers on this subject and a new paper on collapse which I’ll mention at the end, but first let’s review and get an understanding of what he said in his censored paper, ‘Are there basic physical constraints on future anthropogenic emissions of carbon dioxide?‘, as well as the following recorded speech. I consider Garret to be a biophysical economist firmly rooted in geophysics and reality, much like Albert Bartlett and Charles Hall.
Conclusions of the paper entitled ‘Are there basic physical constraints on future anthropogenic emissions of carbon dioxide?’:
- Improving energy efficiency accelerates CO2 emissions growth.
- Absent collapsing the economy (In other words turning the inflation adjusted GDP to zero), emissions can be stabilized only by building the equivalent of one nuke plant per day globally (or some other non CO2-emitting power supply)
- Emissions growth has inertia (due to the high probability of points one and two)
The present state and growth of civilization are determined by the past, and the past fundamentally cannot be changed. Thus we are set on a trajectory that can lead to simplified predictions of the future.
Where does the value of money come from?
An economist would say that its value is fundamentally belief-based. I believe it has value and you believe it has value; therefore, it has value.
From a physics perspective, this explanation is a bit unsatisfactory because it doesn’t really explain where that belief comes from. Why is that belief so resilient? Presumably that belief has some physical representation because civilization certainly is part of the physical universe. It’s not separate from it. We are all pat of the physical world.
Civilization is an organism that can be defined by how it consumes/transforms energy. Physics can be used to describe civilization. There are basic laws of thermodynamics and, fundamentally, physics is about the transformation of energy from one state to another or really the flow of energy downhill, or more strictly, the flow of material downhill from a high potential state to a low potential state. You can think of a ball rolling from a high gravitational potential to a low gravitational potential.
Money is a representation of some energetic flow [economic activity] from high potential to low potential. Economic wealth represents the rate of consumption of energy in civilization. An example of this in nature would be a beaver dam which represents civilization.
The energy reservoir for the beaver dam (civilization) is the water behind the dam. The flow of water across the dam from a high gravitational potential to a low gravitational potential represents the size of the beaver’s ‘civilization’. Something similar applies to human civilization which represents a gradient between available energy supplies (coal, oil, uranium) and a point of low potential (outer space).
We consume energy, things happen in civilization due to the flow across that potential gradient (high to low) releasing waste heat which radiates to outer space at a cold temperature of about 255 Kelvin (-18ºC).
We can treat civilization as a single organism that interacts on a global scale with available energy reservoirs and through the transformation of that energy (stuff is done, economic activity occurs). Money is a representation of that capacity to do stuff physically (or how fast it can consume that energy).
This is a testable hypothesis and it can be expressed mathematically which means we can look at this quantitatively.
Wealth is the value of something that has accumulated over time. Based on what we currently have, we are able to produce more which gives us more power to produce even more in the future. It’s through this spontaneous feedback process that civilization (or a beaver dam) is able to grow.
The question is, “How do you calculate this accumulated wealth?”
Economists use GDP as a wealth indicator. All the economic production added up from the beginning of history up to the present is the total accumulated wealth for civilization.
GDP has units of currency per time, so it’s a production per year. Inflation-adjusted production is producing something new to be added to what we currently have and that added over time creates our wealth. The hypothesis says that this process is related to our rate of energy consumption through a constant value λ (9.7, plus or minus 0.3, milliwatts per inflation-adjusted 1990 dollar].
This can be tested with various historical GDP statistics along with records of world total energy production and CO2 emissions.
This hypothesis is supported by the data to an extremely high degree of confidence.
What turns that piece of paper (currency) into a potential to do something is the milliwatts per dollar, as calculated in the chart below:
The graph below shows statistics from the year 1700 onward for inflation-adjusted world GDP(P) Green line. The time integral of GDP, or wealth of civilization(C), is represented by the blue line which has increased by a factor of 6 or 7($300 trillion to $1700 trillion) since 1700. Bursts of growth are seen around 1880 and 1950 in the purple line(η) which is the annual percentage growth rate of world GDP, calculated by dividing the GDP(P) by the wealth of civilization(C). Today the world GDP is about 100 times larger than it was in 1970.
The growth of red line(a), primary energy consumption rate, is essentially moving in tandem with the wealth of civilization (blue line). This suggests that, fundamentally, money is power.
The black line represents the constant coefficient of the power of money λ (9.7, plus or minus 0.3, milliwatts per inflation-adjusted 1990 dollar).
How is emissions related to wealth?
It is the relation of energy consumption and the resultant emissions. Emission rates are fundamentally linked to the wealth of civilization:
You cannot reduce emission rates without reducing the “wealth” of civilization. Wealth is energy consumption; energy consumption is carbon dioxide emissions. The two are inseparable.
In order to just stabilize CO2 levels, you would have to decarbonize as fast as the current growth rate in energy consumption which would work out to about one nuclear power plant per day (or some other comparable non CO2-emitting energy supply).
If you look at atmospheric CO2 concentrations in parts per million by volume (from various sources including ice cores) and compare that to the world GDP going back to 2 A.D., the values increase pretty much in tandem through history:
“If we want to reduce CO2, something has to collapse.”
In more recent years, the world GDP plotted against atmospheric CO2 shows an even more tight relationship between the two:
“You could just go to the top of Mauna Loa with a CO2 monitor and measure the size of the global economy to a high degree of accuracy.”
The positive feedback of building wealth in civilization
Wealth is a representation of energy consumption rates. Real GDP is a representation of the growth rate in energy consumption rates. This cycle is fundamentally linked to physics through the parameter lambda λ (9.7 milliwatts per inflation-adjusted dollar).
GDP is really just an abstract representation of an ability to increase our capacity to consume more energy in the future. That’s what the production really represents.
Civilization is always trying to expand its energy consumption to accumulate more wealth, or reduce the cost of maintenance by improving energy efficiency. More available energy translates into more accumulated wealth which in turn requires more energy for maintenance, creating a vicious circle of unending growth. Energy conservation essentially does not help. The fear of contraction permeates every corner of the economy.
In nature a tree takes available energy in sunlight through photosynthesis to incorporate nutrients from the soil and air in order to grow, and as it grows, it is able to do more of that process in the future. For a healthy tree, increased efficiency speeds up this process. If the tree is diseased, then the efficiency would be compromised until it dies, creating exponential decay.
We could apply this to civilization. If we increase efficiency, it leads to accelerated growth and more energy consumption. This phenomenon is known as Jevon’s paradox, first noted in 1865.
Increased energy efficiency increases the positive feedback of building wealth in civilization which can lead to super exponential growth, and that leads to an ever accelerated increase of CO2 emissions. This feedback loop (rate of return) for building wealth in civilization has increased from about 0.1% per year in 1700 to 2.2% per year, the highest it’s ever been in history.
As mentioned before, there are a couple of inflection points in history for this rate of return, one in 1880 and another in 1950 which likely correspond to new energy reservoirs coming online. This means the problem is fundamentally a geologic problem. 1950-1970 was a boom time for the wealth rate of return. This rate of return has been stagnant in recent years for the first time since the 1930’s, probably related to the current economic crisis. The sheer size of modern civilization has vastly overshot the Earth’s regenerative abilities. Biophysical limits on resource extraction are likely a major contributor to this stagnant rate of return. The extraction of low-grade, dirty fossil fuels is a sign of civilization’s energy desperation.
Future Scenarios
Emissions Impossible…
We aren’t really decarbonizing. Perhaps we’re trying to, but not really.
The model shows that reducing carbon requires a rapid reduction in the size of maintained wealth, as well as rapid abandonment of carbon-burning energy sources at the global rate of 300 GW of new non carbon-emitting power capacity—approximately one new nuclear power plant per day.
“Extending the model to the future, the model suggests that the well-known IPCC SRES scenarios substantially underestimate how much CO2 levels will rise for a given level of future economic prosperity. For one, global CO2 emission rates cannot be decoupled from wealth through efficiency gains. For another, like a long-term natural disaster, future greenhouse warming can be expected to act as an inflationary drag on the real growth of global wealth. For atmospheric CO2 concentrations to remain below a “dangerous” level of 450 ppmv, model forecasts suggest that there will have to be some combination of an unrealistically rapid rate of energy decarbonization and nearly immediate reductions in global civilization wealth. Effectively, it appears that civilization may be in a double-bind. If civilization does not collapse quickly this century, then CO2 levels will likely end up exceeding 1000 ppmv; but, if CO2 levels rise by this much, then the risk is that civilization will gradually tend towards collapse.” ~ Tim Garrett
With business-as-usual, by 2100 the world GDP would be 10 times higher than today and the atmospheric CO2 would be around 1200 ppm.
The developed countries like the U.S., Britain, and Europe have simply offshored their manufacturing base to China and elsewhere for the most part:
Summation
Garrett’s latest paper “Long-run evolution of the global economy: 1. Physical basis” explains key components determining whether civilization can “innovate” itself toward faster economic growth through new energy reserve discovery, improvements to human and infrastructure longevity, and more energy efficient resource extraction technology. Growth slows due to a combination of prior growth, energy reserve depletion, and a “fraying” of civilization networks due to natural disasters… While growth must initially be positive for civilization to emerge, positive growth cannot be sustained forever. Civilization networks are always falling apart, and presumably in a world with finite resources, we will eventually lose the capacity to keep fixing them.” Future loss of useable Land and Water is already in the pipeline from all prior carbon emissions, and CO2 emissions continue to rise unabated. “Whether collapse comes sooner or later depends on the quantity of energy reserves available to support continued growth and the accumulated magnitude of externally imposed decay… Theoretical and numerical arguments suggest that when growth rates approach zero, civilization becomes fragile to such externalities as natural disasters, and the risk is for an accelerating collapse.”
Rip rip woodchip
Turn it into paper
Throw it in the bin
No news today
Nightmare dreaming
Can’t you hear the screaming
Chainsaw I saw more decay
Feed ME!!!!!!!
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Rudolf Clausius, the 19th century German physicist who formulated the second law of thermodynamics and is credited with making thermodynamics a science, imagined that the relentless increase of entropy would ultimately degrade the universe to a disordered, stagnant confusion–a fate he called the heat-death. As Russell sadly put it, “all the labors of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction.’
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Exactly – one day (an entirely human construct built around one meaningless sun and a particular satellite), the universe will itself fall to the ultimate stage of entropy.
On a related note MIke, let me be the first to offer you a cordial reception and warm welcome to complete enlightenment and understanding of our global predicament. Sort of comforting, isn’t it? Do you sometimes look back on the wasted mental/physical energy (there’s that word again) attempting to fight the fundamental laws of physics?
One last thing, and I’ll put on my green eye-shades to pick some nits, but a few terms and some concepts seemed to be a little confused. Perhaps a simple model can be used to clarify wealth (a total, cumulative balance) and income/GDP (an arbitrary measure of activity over a period of time, commonly one year).
Let us go back to ancient Egypt, where stored grain(s) ie wealth, represented the net accumulated balance achieved over any total number of periods. The annual harvest would represent GDP or current output.
Receipts issued to those who deposited grain @ the community silo (bank) represented a real claim on wealth, and thus became exchangeable documents aka **money**. Tickets based on future production expectations were in turn termed as loans/notes ie debt, and usually carried an associated cost called interest.
The combination of receipts representing real, accumulated wealth, and tickets based on expected future production became mixed as a composite aggregate measure of GDP.
Since there has never been any kind of money constant over time, and due to the fact that loans/credit are almost wholly an emotional measure (eg lending volume up when “times are good”), it’s very difficult to correlate output with GDP.
It’s also somewhat provable: what if the entire global population sat around playing on the interwebs, but had enough food to eat, and simply traded their wash back & forth? If credit aggregates continued to grow (ie wash inflation), GDP would measure increased ‘growth’, but in actuality, it would simply be a measure of debasing the denominator.
I think a more accurate measure would be to evaluate what is commonly referred to as work: mine, make or grow (food). This is where we see true net increases in activity = energy, regardless of any attempt to measure GDP via “money”.
How one develops a workable theory around that kind of base-line is above my pay grade; after all, I’m just a bean counter.
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Just s you previously demonstrated a lack of understanding of money and failed to respond to the points I made, you now demonstrate a lack of understanding of GDP.
Never mind.
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And I might add that the Laws of Thermodynamics, as commonly understood, fail to take into account the much more recent insights from quantum physics, where the Universe does NOT wind down to an ultimate stage of heat death, blahblahblah
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Actually David Higham addressed that here:
https://collapseofindustrialcivilization.com/2014/03/27/the-biophysics-of-civilization-money-energy-and-the-inevitability-of-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-22369
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We must have endless growth because the population keeps rising and therefore the economy has to expand to support them, plus the population which does exist demands ever increasing standards of living. Population and standards of living keep rising because the economy keeps expanding to support them. The only way out of this loop is for population to fall, through decreased birth rate or increased death rate or both… and both of these present difficulties.
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I no longer am interested too much in the vagaries of climate change. Garrett’s work is solid. In all reality, nothing can be done because the fate of civilization is deterministic. It’s a superorganism that grows spontaneously. The few malcontents aware of mankind’s overshoot are like a tiny group of maladjusted cells amongst billions of other cells that are happily going about their metabolic business without question. The trajectory of the superorganism cannot be altered.
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A very good way of describing our predicament, I would say!
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If you look at the correct data you will discover that the standard of living has been falling throughout the developed world despite increases in GDP and emissions.
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Not for the ultra wealthy — all the gains have gone to them.
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I am one of those “malcontents” and loyal member of the choir. Our songs seem a bit more breathless and impatient of late. I too am no longer interested in the vagaries of climate change. However, I do look at the weather each day and ask myself how much longer I will be able to grow a decent garden and watch the trees who always tell me the truth. Last year was a “shot across the bow”. Only a few died. I await the result of this year to find out how fast the destruction precipitates.
The collapse of industrial civilization may be deterministic but I believe that we each have individual free will. It doesn’t seem like a fair fight does it?
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Like ants trying to corral an elephant.
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xraymike79: this was a spectacular post – “doin’ the math!”
i’m with you and buz in the “malcontent” category. You two may not be interested in the vagaries of climate change, but they’ll impact the activities and continuation of industrial civilization, and they’ve been triggered by our activity! We’re causing our own demise – and maybe that’s baked in, as Garrett’s paper suggests (by the feedback loop that is ind. civ.’s modus operandi).
i’m still fascinated by all the feedbacks popping up, the steady degradation of the biosphere (including the atmosphere), species die-offs, “natural disasters” like the recent mile-wide mudslide burying a town in Washington state and all the rest. It’s amazing how weather patterns, the rising El Nino, ever-stronger and more wide-spread storms, rising sea levels as a result of global ice melting, methane release, thermohaline circulation stalling, all of which (and more) react to and influence each other and therefore our activities and continuation of a viable life-form. We’re at the mercy of our planet – not the other way around, since it will be here long after we’re gone (good riddance, from the Earth’s perspective). Since we’re continuing along the CO2 spewing route, it won’t come as any surprise when the shit hits the fan around 2020 (when I think the collapse will begin it’s precipitous decline).
Would you rather cover socio-political reactions to our dilemma of food shortages, resource depletion, water scarcity, military aggression, economic turmoil and the like?
That’s a great lode of material too. Either way you approach it, we’re going to go down hard and fast once we reach that vague tipping point out there where economics meets the real world. All the shell games they play with fiat currencies won’t buy us any more time and will only make the decline steeper and in less time when it does occur.
Thanks for all your work and this really great blog.
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Imagine a group of 100 people trapped within an airtight room. A single locked door prevents escape. If everyone lives long enough to consume the oxygen supply, then everyone dies. But what if, by eliminating 95% of the people in the room before the oxygen is gone, the door magically opens and you get to walk out with your family? If you possess nuclear weapons, pathogen laboratories, special forces, and so on, do you continue to wait for fusion, something that may not happen before the oxygen runs out? It seems that all of humanity is now locked in that room. Will everyone die (maybe a few lucky survive) during the next century or will 95% be killed tomorrow so that 5% can escape without irretrievably damaging the ecosystem? Remember that maybe 4% of societies leaders are psychopathic. I am relatively sure that something drastic will be attempted. Building one nuclear or thorium plant per day starting thirty years ago will not happen. The remaining fossil fuels will be inadequate for maintaining the existing infrastructure and human population. Embarking upon an unprecedented infrastructure campaign will be politically impossible. Look at what our best and brightest are doing, building Tesla cars. The eclectrotechnic journey ends in a giant arc furnace where trainloads of bodies can be unceremoniously cremated. This is what we get by allowing businessmen, lawyers, political scientists and religious idealogues to run our societies. Dead end.
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That’s a very interesting analogy and a perceptive comment but how sure are you that the lunatics running the asylum actually understand any of this? They may be psychopaths but they may also be pretty dumb and incapable of appreciating the scientific arguments for what we’re doing to the natural world, and what the consequences will be. Their power generally relies on consumers of their products, and/or followers (if they’re political or religious leaders), so they might think that doing away with 95% of their support base would be a bad idea.
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All I can offer is my own anecdotal experiences to what Icarus wrote. I spent over 20 years working in the Financial sector. A strange experience. I was perceived as a malcontent, yet was always the go to guy to fix problems.
The reason. During the development stage I could usually understand the flaws and problems which would arise. Yet, in all cases I was dissed and shunned until the product or system was released. Then panic, chaos and fear all erupted when the system didn’t work and they would rush to me to fix it. Usually immediately, which was never possible.
They’d hang around my desk like children wanting immediate gratification, just adding to my stress and theirs until I would erupt and tell them to go away. Even then they couldn’t seem to understand their behaviors.
This pattern never deviated, it was the same from project to project and company to company. It’s mostly an illusion that private companies are well run and efficient. it’s a shell game.
So, from my POV these people no matter how high they are in the hierarchy are usually incapable of understanding what is going on around them. Any news that causes them discomfort is immediately dismissed as not possible. They truly believe they are exempt from the consequences of their actions until the situation unravels effecting them and then they whine like babies wanting the problem to just go away.
As an aside. I appreciate all the illustrations that come from comic books on this site. Comic books are pretty much fully incorporated part of Hollywood an the entertainment industry. Stan Lee’s recent interview online at Playboy displays the same type of egotism and hubris that ripples throughout our civilization.
Yet there are the small percentage of independent that will never make it to the big screen.Comic books were always being attacked by the society (look at the Senate Subcommittee hearings in the 50’s, book burnings, witch hunts, etc). Comics never had the clout or money that Hollywood did and so suffered at the hands of the people.
Recently while reading the Library of American Comics’ Rip Kirby (vol 5) I came across a fascinating piece commissioned by the United States Atomic Energy Commission. This was at the height of the government’s propaganda campaign to convince us of the fantastic benefits we could expect from this most dangerous form of power. The artwork is lush, clear and beautiful obfuscating the horror that was the aftermath of Hiroshima and far into the future Fukashima. It was illustrated by John Prentice, who after the death of Alex Raymond in an automobile crash, took over Rip Kirby in 1956.
The Atomic Energy Revolution Comic Book – http://www.ep.tc/atmc/index.html.
Enjoy
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“They truly believe they are exempt from the consequences of their actions until the situation unravels effecting them and then they whine like babies wanting the problem to just go away.”
Read this & “Doh! What happened?” popped into head. lol
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I’m with you James. I think that the psychopaths in charge will do whatever it takes to maintain their positions of wealth and power even thought it takes them down too. Psychopaths are not wired to consider the future in any realistic way. They see the world as a dog eat dog war of survival today.
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I don’t think you have to have or be psychopaths to try something. Assume a well funded and motivated group had all the evidence and were completely convinced that if things went on we would go extinct. Now assume they wished to survive, have their families survive and sincerely wished to preserve humanity. Would their plan be irrational? Is it that much different than performing an amputation to save someones life? It is horrific and I am not arguing for it, but I can imagine normal people justifying it. How many untold souls have been abandon to exposure so the rest of the family or tribe could live?
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Further explanation of Garrett’s physics based economics model:
http://www.inscc.utah.edu/~tgarrett/Economics/Physics_of_the_economy.html
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Thanks for the link, and those awesome “comic” book covers. I remember snapping those up when they first came out, being a fairly bent kid at the time.
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Slightly off topic but I love Robert Pirsig’s metaphysics of quality. This excerpt is from ‘Lila’, the follow-up to ‘Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance’, and discusses how life appears to run contrary to the second law of thermodynamics:
“The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that all energy systems “run down” like a clock and never rewind themselves. But life not only “runs up,” converting low energy sea-water, sunlight and air into high-energy chemicals, it keeps multiplying itself into more and better clocks that keep “running up” faster and faster.
Why, for example, should a group of simple, stable compounds of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen struggle for billions of years to organize themselves into a professor of chemistry? What’s the motive? If we leave a chemistry professor out on a rock in the sun long enough the forces of nature will convert him into simple compounds of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen, calcium, phosphorus, and small amounts of other minerals. It’s a one-way reaction. No matter what kind of chemistry professor we use and no matter what process we use we can’t turn these compounds back into a chemistry professor. Chemistry professors are unstable mixtures of predominantly unstable compounds which, in the exclusive presence of the sun’s heat, decay irreversibly into simpler organic and inorganic compounds. That’s a scientific fact.
The question is: Then why does nature reverse this process? What on earth causes the inorganic compounds to go the other way? It isn’t sun’s energy. We just saw what the sun’s energy did. It has to something else. What is it?”
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Although some of what you say is correct, much of it is not.
Put energy into a mixture of basic chemical and you get amino acids etc. Many molecules just cannot help themselves and form longer, more complex molecules.
The action of heat and pressure on decaying matter in the past has generated long-chain alkanes, cyclics, polycylclics etc.
Enthalpy, entropy, bond energies, electron orbital interaction…..
The structure of this (scan down the page) looks impossible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll
and that’s just the start of what can be accomplished by ;capturing’ photons!
I’ve studied this stuff for decades and much of it it’s still way beyond my understanding.
.
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life is an expression of the second law, not a contradiction to it.
this is because building life, like any work, dissipates energy in the greater system. building a cell is just like building a city. it requires a constant flow of energy (from the sun in both cases ultimately).
life is just a chain reaction that dissipates energy from the sun into low grade heat energy that eventually radiates into space. life is ultimately just natures way to achieve entropy under certain circumstances. this is the meaning of life, not 42, unless 42 has something to do with thermodynamics im not aware of.
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Thanks for the replies, chaps. I am no chemist or physicist so am not in a position to take issue with your comments!
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Hahaha, but I’m ulvfugl, and I DO take issue with your comments and I say it’s bullshit.
I’ve been doing a lot of hard digging into this stuff.
It’s called ‘life’. You try and find a satisfactory definition of it from the physicists, the chemists, the biologists. They are ALL full of bullshit.
Laws of thermodyamics are bullshit too. They are 19thC mechanistic claptrap based on measuring the flow of heat, and Maxwell’s equations, blahblahblah.
Hasn’t anybody noticed that there has been a scientific revolution since then ?
Unfortunately this place is not a good format to get into the detail.
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Not only mechanistic but materialistic ‘clap-trap’.
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Eyes roll widely until my optic nerves detach…
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The only one on offer comes from Stuart Kauffman, that an autonomous self-contained self-replicating entity, e.g. paramecium, can do ‘at least two cycles of work’, that is, in the classical thermodynamic physics sense of the term work.
The thing takes in food and breaks down chemical bonds to release energy.
That’s the best, just about the only, definition that there is. That’s the distinction between living and non-living.
However, more recently, he has scrapped that definition and come up with a revised version. ‘An entity which seeks meaning in a meaningful environment.’
Because to do its work, it has to find the fuel, the food. It’s environment is full of all kinds of stuff that has meaning for it. It has to read the environment and figure out what the various signals it is receiving mean. Some things want to eat it, some things are good for it to eat.
Once you have one of these entities, then, you have evolution, and 3 or 3 billion years later, you have us. That part is simple.
Nobody has yet figured out how you get from not-living to living.
That paramecium has no brain, no nerves, but it can learn. How ? Nobody knows.
Keep rolling your eyes if it helps.
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Did you take you medicine this morning?
All living organisms need energy to live. Period. Why is that so hard to understand? No one here is discussing “brainless” paramecium that can learn. What the hell is your point?
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Jeez, you just redirected me to David Higham’s point, which has nothing to do with my point.
My point is re thermodynamics, entropy, life. You are considering them within a totally outdated anachronistic obsolete paradigm.
The learning of the paramecium, photosynthesis by plants, etc, involve quantum physics, not classical 19thC steam engine physics. Until people start thinking in terms of what SCIENCE tells us is how reality actually works, we are never going to get anywhere are we.
There is no point in trying to discuss such complicated matters here though is there. I’ve tried before.
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Let me restate this to you again, since you don’t get it:
What exactly is your beef about Garret’s physics model for explaining the economy. Please explain what details of Garret’s model you think are wrong and why?
Can you do that without going of on wild tangents?
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I redirected you to Higham’s remark because you said:
“I might add that the Laws of Thermodynamics, as commonly understood, fail to take into account the much more recent insights from quantum physics, where the Universe does NOT wind down to an ultimate stage of heat death..”
And Higham explained that “…Pirsig’s faulty analysis is also connected to those who claim that life is evidence that the second law of thermodynamics is incorrect. The key point to remember is that the entropy is decreasing in one part, but when the whole sun-earth system is considered,there is a net increase of entropy, so the existence of life does not disprove the second law.”
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Life isn’t “just” as you describe andyuk. It’s much more complex than that. Thermodynamics is just the giant process that the universe abides by but doesn’t account for all the complexity, it’s a good overview of the process but doesn’t explain life satisfactorily imho.
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After our previous discussion regarding Paul Chefurka’s description of energy gradients, I admit I’m a bit surprised to see you repeating the idea reconstituted through Tim Garrett’s work. I believe both fellows are absolutely correct, but I still find it unsatisfactory to frame human conduct in such terms. I’m have some interesting company in that regard. Of the quotes below, Paluhniuk has to be understood with some snarky PoMo irony, but Keynes and Russell (the latter quoted in full with emphasis added) both pretty much say it does no good to think in terms of our ultimate death (e.g., as individuals, a species, or even the universe). We can’t be so consumed in life with the spectre of death that we either ignore it (often out of abject fear) or succumb to nihilism. Or just maybe I’m misunderstanding everything.
On a long enough timeline. The survival rate for everyone drops to zero. — Paluhniuk (Fight Club)
But this long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. — Keynes
That Man is the product of causes that had no prevision of the end they were achieving; that his origin, his growth, his hopes and fears, his loves and his beliefs, are but the outcome of accidental collocations of atoms; that no fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought and feeling, can preserve individual life beyond the grave; that all the labors of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and that the whole temple of Man’s achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins — all these things, if not quite beyond dispute, are yet so nearly certain that no philosophy which rejects them can hope to stand. Only within the scaffolding of these truths, only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair, can the soul’s habitation henceforth be safely built. — Bertrand Russell
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Paul Chefurka is not an atmospheric scientist. Paul Chefurka did not prove any hypothesis mathematically or quantitatively. Chefurka and Garrett are leagues apart.
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Agreed: they’re leagues apart in terms of methodology. Yet their subject matter overlaps considerably. If Chefurka’s approach is more intuitive, that’s akin to poets, writers, artists, and cartoonists sensing our problems and describing or depicting them in art. Those translations are useful to laypersons like me.
I’m utterly convinced by scientific and mathematical proofs. For instance, the correlation of GDP to atmospheric CO2 is striking and is not lost on me. My mind is bent that way even though I lack the formal training to fully embrace the nitty-gritty, relying instead on principles, summaries, and abstracts. Further, I’m prone to concede in appeals to authority based on scientific rigor.
But when it comes down to it, my response is still emotional, and carriers of that content speak to me differently, perhaps more powerfully. For instance, a political cartoon often gets at injustice better than an editorial and with astonishing compactness. The combination of the scientific and artistic here at Collapse is a real double-whammy. (Additional storytelling arguably makes it a triple-whammy.) Any of us can judge which style of presentation provokes the stronger response.
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I never really delved into Garrett and his work until now. So the finality of his conclusions really hit me.
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Evidence from all quarters continues to hit me hard. I think I’ve processed something and made my peace begrudgingly (the reality principal) only to be hit again with renewed vigor. The reports of mass death across and/or within various species and the preposterous disinformation campaign regarding radiation leaks/disasters in Russia, Japan, and N. Mexico are what galls me most. (The latest Die Hard movie has the characters going into the heart of Chernobyl and spraying everything down with a supposed radiation-neutralizing concoction. As if.)
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Chefurka and Garrett leagues apart ? I’m surprised you say that. I’d have said they say almost the same thing.
Not saying either is wrong.
But look, this 19thC physics simply will not DO, unless you’re only interested in treating the Earth and the Universe as if it’s a steam engine that you are feeding with coal and water.
That paradigm is DEAD.
http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/virtual-particles-what-are-they/
These things behave differently depending upon whether you are looking at the fuckers or not.
WE are made of the same fields, waves and particles that we are observing. They cannot be separated, into observed and observer.
The updated version of 2LOT is statistical. It’s not a fixed law, it’s just ‘very likely’. If the Universe is infinite, which it appears to be, there cannot be any heat death, so the whole theory collapses anyway.
If there are Multiverses, the theory collapses. If the Laws of physics evolve the theory collapses. None of these thing mean we don’t go extinct. Just that I’m sick of bullshit from the priesthood.
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I still don’t understand what your beef is about Garret’s physics model for explaining the economy. Please explain what details of Garret’s model you think are wrong and why?
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It’s fine, Mike, use it as a stick to beat the shit out of all the idiots who are trashing the biosphere, Guy Mcpherson uses it, it’s a valid model that makes sense, and, just like Newton’s mechanics, it’s ‘true’, in a proximate sense, at a certain level, if you see what I mean.
Sort of, if you want to build a house, Flat Earth theory is true, you don’t need to take the curvature of the Earth into account, do you. But if you want to launch a satellite, you do.
So, my haggling is to do with ultimate truths, rather than proximate truths, and when people state that such and such must be right because of some Law, and so on.
The people we are fighting AGAINST, are total fucking morons who believe in the tenets of neoclassical economics, ffs. Do you expect THEM to understand Garrett ? Let alone quantum theory ? They cannot even understand the inherent contradiction involved with infinite growth on a finite planet.
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Deterministic models offend people, just like how I was a bit offended by the David Korowicz interview. No one wants to be told that their fate is sealed, that revolutions won’t make a difference, that free will of the individual is squashed by the machinations of larger forces like the ‘superorganism’ of industrial civilization. Isn’t that what this disagreement is about?
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No, look, to understand how the ‘new paradigm’ (sorry for that horrible term) view of reality, the world, the Universe, looks, you have to first get your head into that new paradigm.
You can’t do it from within the old paradigm.
Now, I accept that this is incredibly difficult, because nobody really knows what this new paradigm IS.
But we are never going to find out what it is until we start doing it. Which means thinking in terms of what we KNOW is the actual facts that science tells is to be the case.
The idea that we live in a deterministic, materialistic, mechanistic world, that works like a 19thC steam engine in a clockwork Universe, if that’s what you are trying to tell me is your conception, your cosmology ? You are having a joke ? Being provocative ?
I mean, that notion has been totally and comprehensively demolished, to the highest standards that modern science can reach. Science has done that.
But, quite separately, as Brutus appreciates, coming from the humanities, the whole culture which went along with that Enlightenment quest for certainty and order, the Logical Positivist, I think it goes under various other names, has also collapsed and been found to be untenable.
But the hubris and arrogance remains, there’s the inertia, just as with Darwin, there are still people who can’t accept Evolution, most people still lag a century behind… they think Einstein was the smartest man ever, even though he squandered a decade of his life trying to prove that quantum theory was wrong…
That was what ? More than 80 years ago ? Everyone else is still clueless…
What happens when you model the Earth system as a quantum system ?
What happens when you model it as a living information system ?
It’s not a steam engine. A steam engine is a dead machine.
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Garrett’s model does not purport to have all the answers to the universe, and none of what you say makes his model invalid. I think you are reading to much into it. His physics based model for the human economy, as it currently exists, works very well and actually is more in tune with ecology because it reflects resource depletion and the importance of energy in biology. Garrett is not trying to treat the Earth as a “steam engine”.
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Good heavens, Mike, you seem to be – what word shall I use – somewhat pedantic.
Garret is not trying to treat the earth as a “steam engine”.
Whether you or Paul or anyone else like is or not, modelling the Earth system using classical physics and thermodynamics is doing exactly that.
If someone modelled world commerce and made economic predictions based on trade data drawn up from 19th C sailing ships, and projected that into the future, everyone would say that’s just silly, you’re forgetting that in a hundred years time they’ll have planes and ships running on diesel, containerisation, blahblah.
So why are people still modelling the Earth system using obsolete physics ?
And biology, for that matter ?
@ Paul
Re the emergence thing.
Fascinating isn’t it.
The physicists taught the chemists and the chemists taught the biologists.
So they all believed that determinist, materialist, mechanist, emergent stuff, that you believe.
But then the physicists changed their mind.
Only the chemists and biologists and everyone else have not yet got the message.
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If you could just answer these questions, then maybe we could get somewhere because I highly doubt you watched the video, read the blog post, and read all the attached links.
Again…
What exactly is your beef about Garret’s physics model for explaining the economy. Please explain what details of Garret’s model you think are wrong and why?
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No, sorry, mike, I give up. I can’t cope with this format, I can’t deal with such complicated issues here, and you seem unable to get the points that I am attempting to convey.
I mean, just the ’emergence’ thing needs lengthy posts to address… HOW does biology ’emerge’ from chemistry, this is never answered by any scientist, and we’re right back to the paramecium and the two cycles of work and the laws of thermodynamics, and IF we are going to make models to try and explain stuff, imho, we should base them on what science tells us are the fundamentals, and those are NOT the Laws of Thermodynamics, they are quantum mechanics, which give us a totally different picture.
The problem is, nobody has yet been able to integrate everything that is known into a coherent new paradigm, so you guys may just as well stay with the old one, it makes no difference anyway, we still get NTE.
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You could post your lengthy answers over at Guy’s forum and then drop the link here. We’ll surely take a look at it.
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Here’s my problem with replacing and updating one paradigm with another, or dismissing them wholesale as you’ve done. While they each and all inform our behaviors to one degree or another, the activity of humans across the globe and over time has been to use its particular model to manipulate things in the world. So whether it’s animism, poly- or monotheism, Newtonian physics, thermodynamics, information theory, or quantum physics, we reduce reality to something manipulable and then proceed to destroy it (gradually or all at once). Which worldview enables that best/worst is of little importance, since they have all played their roles. And while quantum theory may have replaced mechanistic determinism in a few laboratories and classrooms as the preeminent worldview, the steam shovels, fishing trawlers, irrigation canals, chemical plants, fuel refineries, and nuclear power stations that are currently laying waste to everything use the timeworn worldview of materialism, which has proven to be pretty effective at allowing us to destroy at scale. Thus far (unless I’m mistaken), the closest thing we have now in applied quantum theory is promises about quantum computing, which curiously intersects information theory in a substantial way. Does the new paradigm you’re trumpeting really offer an alternative that will amount to anything?
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Short answer, No.
Just that it’s satisfying to uncover truths, I suppose.
What chance of changing global culture, capitalism, international relations, etc ?
I’d say none.
We’re supposed to have cut emissions down to almost zero in the industrial countries by now, so the developing countries could develop a bit… instead they increase.
I think we are in the mass extinction event. But I’d like to know exactly how we arrived here and exactly what it is that we are destroying, and there is an opportunity to answer those questions before we all vanish…
The big question is how are mathematical, physical, biological and mental information connected ?
http://jonlieffmd.com/blog/mathematics-information-and-physical-reality/the-emergence-of-information-physical-biological-and-mental-information-2
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Rather long for a koan, Harry, but the “answer,” of course, is “THIS!” [meaning everything from the Big Bang to right now]. Why nature reverses the process is ultimately unanswerable, since nature isn’t asking the question, except by the phenomena produced – the entirety of existence, meaning the state we’re in right now.
We can contemplate and conjecture, argue and point out facets of the answer, but it’s like asking what the purpose of life is. IS there a purpose? Is it the universe contemplating its own being or existence at specific locations and times (like right here and right now with us)? If so, it’s even more than that because of all the other stuff going on everywhere. Assimilating all that other stuff into the answer you arrive right back at right here and right now, otherwise known as THIS (whether we “get it” or not).
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http://guymcpherson.com/forum/index.php?topic=591.msg44314#msg44314
That’s what I told @u over at NBL:
Why do you want to know “what this is”?
Can’t you SEE what it is? IT IS what it is.
I might question the common understandings of entropy and energy if I saw the universe working in some other fashion. If there’s a “multiverse” or if there are aliens living on another planet, how does that materially affect our human situation? Neither proposition answers ulvfugl’s fundamental question “why are we doing this, and to what?”, whereas a thermodynamic explanation comes the closest I have seen. Perhaps ulvfugl thinks he can “see” without using his physical brain and bodily senses… I don’t know. I think he suffers from protagonism, as I call it. On some level he’s similar to RE, in that he hates to consider that the die is cast, thinks it akin to quitting, and that we must make one last effort to…
to?
Howling about quantum mechanics seems to be grasping at straws no differently from the Rapture folks grasping at Jesus bringing them bodily en masse to another dimension.
Sure, viruses and wombats and even molecules exchange “information”, otherwise nothing would happen at all, and everything would be frozen. Entropy can’t happen without energy to begin with, and entropy is linked to “information” in an esoteric fashion, so -yeah- energy cultivates or perhaps I can use the term “breeds” or “expresses” information, and when that energy dissipates that means the death of the civilization/organism/other self-organizing entity, which, as the information bleeds away or fades away (or rather, becomes irrelevant, having done its bit) and ceases to offer opportunity for further coherent organization and mobilization (life), will end up by being frozen in its lowest-energy (maximum entropy) state, à la “Into the Cool”*, I imagine… (*on my bedside table yet to read). That’s just my gut feeling about it. Unlike ulvfugl, I consider reading Derrida purely optional (u’s rationale for why he’s a must read: “he’s French!”… I rest my case!). Whether this is a one-time deal or a cyclic affair is, and -I believe- will remain, unknown by us, which frustrates the Church of Protagonism, whose adepts must know, dammit!
On a related note, I find it darkly amusing that Buddhists are now disconcerted, because mass extinction means fewer animate beings in which to reincarnate souls, by their reckoning. Go figure. I wonder how they do their calculating.. I mean, do they count organisms like bacteria and yeast in the totals? (Numbers will be down all around, I’m afraid, but it’s still a question of mine.)
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‘Darkly amusing’ is a good description of my reaction to that too.We drink a lot of tea here,and I decided some time ago that if reincarnation exists,I will be coming back as a kettle dog. There is a quote by Johnathon Franzen at the end of this thread for you,Lidia.
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Times arrow moves in one direction. We ride on that arrow and depend upon the energy conversion from high grade source to heat. We are the apex energy predator of earth, like all life we struggle to obtain more to maintain our complexity in the face of relentless competition. Those ill-equipped in structure or behavior fail to release the energy from gradients upon which the manifest complexity of body and soul are dependent. We, individually, are well-honed energy-seeking cellular societies – and incapable of resisting the pleasures of the conversion process. Consequently we will stew in our own toxic metabolic wastes and explore in new ways the inadequacies of human anatomy, physiology and behavior.
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The seedy and tragic freak show of humanity…
Better to accept the fact that humans are a dangerous anomaly in nature. There is no adaption for a species in overshoot on a global scale. Do you know of any species that has ever destroyed an entire planet all by itself? And it’s not over. We’re still overstepping planetary boundaries, pushing some 200 other species off the planet each day, developing more deadly weapons for killing, jockeying for the last resources, and thinking we’re rulers of the world.
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I don’t believe that humans are an anomaly. I also believe that the universe is purpose driven in the sense that was part of the big bang. I believe that science is at a point analogous to where it was at the turn of the twentieth century. It was thought by many scientists that everything had been figured out and the only advances to be made would add a decimal point to the equations. Then physics blew up.
It is always helpful to know what we don’t know. Science today has become arrogant and hubris abounds. Science treats fantasy as fact. The biological sciences are primed to blow up. The paradigm of materialism can no longer serve as true reality.
[just my layman’s opinion]
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I was referring to these three posts:
https://collapseofindustrialcivilization.com/2012/11/07/the-next-four-years-the-wear-and-tear-of-reality/
https://collapseofindustrialcivilization.com/2012/11/08/higher-intelligence-and-the-descent-of-man/
https://collapseofindustrialcivilization.com/2012/11/14/de-evolution-and-the-supremacy-of-mass-destruction/
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I’m a financial magician. Let me hold $1,000 & I’ll pay you 0.5%/year.
There are a few suckers(born every minute) that will borrow a few bucks @ ~ 5% & like magic I will have created $10,000 to earn interest on.
Abracadabra! I’ll loan $250,000 that I don’t have & Voila! I’m the Treasury. I just printed virtual money.
I might call this start up, “Fictional Reserve Ponzi” or “Bank”.
This is such a simply illusion & we are all caught up in it. Is there a realistic solution? Forget it. It’s probably too late.
I’m available to answer any of your financial questions for a small fee.
As bad as things may turn out,should I have this much fun. roflmao
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Mike, this is a truly excellent posting, and thank you for compiling it so well.
Unfortunately, we all make mistakes, and Tim Garret has made a few. One is not highly significant but needs correcting for scientific accuracy.
Zero energy corresponds to 0K (Kelvin) or -273oC, so 0oC is +273K. 18oC is 273+18 = 291K, not 255K. Also the average ambient temperature is closer to 14oC than 18oC, so the correct figure is around 287K.
Tim talks about nuclear being carbon neutral, which ii is not. As previously discussed, all the activity of mining ores, refining them, constructing steel and concrete facilities amounts to a massive carbon dioxide deb,; and the operation and maintenance [by humans who needs to travel and eat etc.] incurs an on-going and accumulating carbon dioxide deb, which is added to when dealing with waste materials and decommissioning are considered.
I get very sick of references to GDP because GDP is a fraudulent measure of economic activity and is an even more fraudulent measure of wealth. The more car accident there are, the sicker people are, the more earthquakes and catastrophes there are, the higher the GDP because repairing, replacing and maintaining all involve financial transactions, despite consuming precious energy and resource.
GDP: Global Destruction Process; Global Destruction Paradigm, Global Deceit Programme etc.
The two regions of NZ which are supposedly doing well and contributing to economic growth are Canterbury -where the main activities are centred around clearing rubble and replacing broken infrastructure in Christchurch or covering farmland in the region with concrete, asphalt, new houses, supermarkets and cafes etc.- and Taranaki -where much economic activity revolves around drilling holes and trying to deal with whatever comes out of the holes (plus animal abuse, and shipping of valuable materials overseas in exchange for computer digits, outdoor furniture and leaf blowers etc.).
Where fracking is done, carting hundreds of truckloads of equipment and water to the site and carting dozens of loads of contaminated sludge off the site contribute to GDP.
It would hard to invent a worse economic system or a worse measure of economic activity than those we have imposed on us because any system much worse than what we have would not function at all.
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Kevin,
I guarantee you Garrett is aware that Nuclear as well as the co-called “renewables” have fossil fuel energy embedded in them. The rare earth minerals have to be mined and the solar panels and wind turbines have to be manufactured in order for them to come into existence. Then we have to think about their maintenance and upkeep which are also dependent on fossil fuel-created tools and machines to access and work on the sites.
If Garrett were to be truly honest, then he would have to say, “Folks, there is no energy source utilized by industrial civilization that is truly carbon free. To be totally honest, industrial man is in no way sustainable and never will be. Carbon man was a one-off, an oddity of nature that will soon join all the other species he has pushed over the cliff into extinction.” Can you image if he was that truthful to the audience? No one would listen to another word he had to say?
As far as the Earth’s radiative equilibrium, all the literature says what Garrett stated (although I did forget to put the – in front of the 18):
The total heat radiated from the planet is equal to the energy flux implied by its temperature, Te(from the Stefan-Boltzman law) times the entire surface of the planet or:
heat radiated from planet = (4πR2) σT4
In radiative balance we thus have:
(4πR2 ) σTe4 = (1 – a) πR2So
Solving this equation for temperature we obtain:
Te = [(1-Aa)So / 4σ] 1/4
We have added a subscript e to the temperature to emphasize that this would be the temperature at the surface of the planet if it had no atmosphere. It is referred to as the effective temperature of the planet. According to this calculation, the effective temperature of Earth is about 255 K (or -18 °C).
http://eesc.columbia.edu/courses/ees/climate/lectures/radiation/
As far as GDP, Garrett does not make any moral or ethical argument for it. It’s what the psychopaths use for their Ponzi economy, so Garrett has to go with what is used in the real world no matter how perverse a yard stick it is. I don’t think anyone could tell you with a straight face that it’s an accurate measurement of social well-being, except for the psychopaths.
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Thanks for the clarification, Mike.
I’m really not into models which apply to planets which have no atmosphere.
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OK, smarta**, I’ll explain 🙂
“Because Earth is about 150 million kilometers from the sun and absorbs about 70% of the solar radiation it receives, Earth’s radiative equilibrium temperature is about 255 K (-18C). But this temperature is much lower than the Earth’s observed average surface temperature of 288 K (15C). Why is there such a difference?
The answer lies in the fact that Earth’s atmosphere absorbs and emits infrared radiation. Unlike Earth’s surface, the atmopsphere does not behave like a blackbody as it absorbs some wavelengths of radiation and is transparent to others. Therefore, only a portion of the infrared radiation leaving Earth’s surface reaches space — much of it is absorbed by the atmosphere. Objects that selectively absorb and emit radiation, such as gases in our atmosphere, are known as selective absorbers…”
Meteorology Today: An Introduction to Weather, Climate, and the Environment, (Chapter 2, page 50)
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I know all that.
But I think you missed the point I was making.
Never mind, it’s all theoretical anyway. The meltdown will accelerate whatever we say or do until a new equilibrium is reached at 290K, 293K, 296K……..?
Our efforts now should be directed towards minimising the suffering to come.
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I find ponziworldblogspot a bracing read. Kevin, Mac10 tells some home-truths about GDP:
2) Using “Keynesian” fiscal stimulus on a long-term basis through recession and expansions and thereby allowing deficits to become baselined into GDP is a Supply Side “Voodoo Economic” disaster, now ending badly. Using fiscal stimulus to fund wars, military occupations and tax cuts for the ultra wealthy etc. is a predictable disaster. According to the “Laffer Curve”, tax cuts pay for themselves via increased growth – 35 years later and that middle chart above shows just how large a delusion that is. Meanwhile, how the Supply Side Neocons hijacked Keynesian economics, will be a story for all time, especially how they co-opted Paul Krugman to put the stamp of phony approval on their chicanery throughout Bush’s 3rd and 4th term, under the stewardship of Obama.
3) Relative to point #2, calling positive GDP growth an “expansion” when massive fiscal stimulus (borrowing) is the only thing maintaining that positive growth rate is nothing more than a widely accepted lie. For the past five years straight this economy would have been in full blown recession were it not for this society’s compulsive willingness to bankrupt its grandchildren. A true recession doesn’t end until fiscal and monetary policy are fully normalized and GDP growth is positive.
http://ponziworld.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/supply-side-ponzinomics_17.html
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This is partly a response to Harry’s post above.First,this is a very good essay.Kevin
mentioned that there are faults in Pirsig”s analysis.Let me try to explain some.He states that the dead person is left in the sun,then describes the decay of the body.He then states”We have just seen what the sun has done”.The decay of the body has nothing to do with the sun.It is the microbial processes at work,using the energy released when the chemical bonds are broken to power their own metabolism.It reminds me of a major mistake in a book ‘The great Delusion’by Steven Stoll, a history professor with an interest in figuring out how neoclassical economics got their intellectual foundations so wrong that they believe economic growth can continue forever.The mistake is on page 157,where he is discussing industrial ecology. He states ‘Factories would metabolize like forests,endlessly cycling energy and nutrients.’. The nutrients do cycle ,but the energy doesn’t.It flows,and is disippated as heat at each trophic level.Deprive a forest of sunlight and you will soon find out how much energy cycling goes on- zero.Pirsig’s faulty analysis is also connected to those who claim that life is evidence that the second law of thermodynamics is incorrect.The key point to remember is that the entropy is decreasing in one part,but when the whole sun -earth system is considered,there is a net increase of entropy,so the existence of life does not disprove the second law.
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Obviously, we humans are going to generate CO2 no matter what we do. Even on our hypothetical commune of 150 to 300 people we might be burning quite a bit of wood to stay warm and cook with. So, it would seem the issue isn’t just about CO2, but about numbers of people; and how they live of course.
I realize this post is about the relationship of economics/money and its relationship to energy and waste or consequences. But as I’ve just said they will always be consequences to our existence on this planet.
While this blog’s focus is on the particular consequences of industrial civilization, it also, in perhaps a roundabout way, also asking why. And that why frequently takes the expression of a criticism of capitalism.
I like criticisms of capitalism, but lately I’ve been thinking it goes quite a bit deeper than simply criticizing capitalism. It’s really about property, position, ownership and the centrality of the family. While I think a great deal of the far “left” is comfortable with a criticism of say corporate capitalism. I think only a very few are prepared to question what I’ve just mentioned.
Do away with property, position, possession, ownership and the centrality of the family and what are we left with? I believe we’re left with the communal and questions regarding what kind of freedom do we want for ourselves and how do we control our numbers?
http://thecommunalsolution.info/
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Burning wood is not a net source of carbon dioxide. The cellulosic substances that wood is primarily composed of are derived from atmospheric carbon dioxide, and burning wood is a natural and sustainable phenomenon which has been going on for at least 300 million years.
Chopping down trees faster that they grow and burning semi-sequestered carbon are the problem.
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DEPENDS
To actually clarify that statement…
“Biomass is considered a renewable energy source because the carbon in biomass is regarded as part of the natural carbon cycle: trees take in carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and convert it into biomass and when they die, it is released back into the atmosphere. Whether trees are burned or whether they decompose naturally, they release the same amount of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. The idea is that if trees harvested as biomass are replanted as fast as the wood is burned, new trees take up the carbon produced by the combustion, the carbon cycle theoretically remains in balance, and no extra carbon is added to the atmospheric balance sheet—so biomass is considered “carbon neutral.” Since nothing offsets the CO2 that fossil fuel burning produces, replacing fossil fuels with biomass supposedly results in reduced carbon emissions.”
In fact, the reality is a lot more complicated. Whether or not biomass is truly carbon neutral depends on what type of biomass is used, the combustion technology, which fossil fuel is being replaced, and what forest management techniques are employed where the biomass is harvested. The combustion of both fossil fuels and biomass produce carbon dioxide. When short-term biomass is burned, such as annual crops, the amount of carbon generated can be taken up quickly by the growing of new plants. But when the biomass comes from wood and trees, not only can the regrowing and thus the recapture of carbon take years or decades, but also, the carbon equation must take into consideration carbon the trees would have naturally stored if left untouched. A group of prominent scientists wrote to Congress in May 2010 explaining that the notion that all biomass results in a 100% reduction of carbon emissions is wrong. Biomass can reduce carbon dioxide if fast growing crops are grown on otherwise unproductive land; in this case, the regrowth of the plants offsets the carbon produced by the combustion of the crops. But cutting or clearing forests for energy, either to burn trees or to plant energy crops, releases carbon into the atmosphere that would have been sequestered if the trees had remained untouched, in addition to producing carbon in the combustion process, resulting in a net increase of CO2.
http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2011/08/18/is-biomass-really-renewable/
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I live on a block of forest in north Queensland,Australia.We use wood in a slow combustion stove for cooking and hot water.Several people,on learning this,have expressed disapproval because the wood burning releases CO2.Meanwhile ,they are using electricity from coal fired power stations for the same purposes.I don’t have to explain the carbon cycle to the readers of this blog,but the ignorance of how it works is one of the many reasons politicians can hoodwink people . I am ashamed to admit it,but the scientific illiteracy of our current prime minister ,Tony Abbott,exceeds that of your George W..He has stated publicly that the effects of atmospheric CO2cannot be of concern because it is colourless and weightless.If we had kept our population low enough,and lived within the photosynthetic capacity of the earth,and that includes burning wood,without tapping the fossil carbon ,we wouldn’t be in the impossible situation we are now in.I am currently reading Countdown by Alan Weisman.Some of interviews,even with supposedly environmentally informed people,leave me in head-shaking wonderment.
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It certainly can’t turn out well. Now with Greenland’s glaciers breaking apart, things are looking more apocalyptic by the day. Sea level rise will be a huge problem in my lifetime.
http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/greenland-glaciers-melting-faster-thought-raising-sea-level-rise-fears-20140317
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David, I appreciated your comment about Pirsig and decomposition very much. For all we “know”, we are very ignorant, not least in figuring out how to teach a wider public what are, after all, basic propositions which their grandfathers and great-grandfathers would probably have an easier time in understanding.
As to “environmentally-informed”, I’ve been asked to chant mindlessly by a 350.org activist with “two small children”, and my own nephew (also with two small children, two cars, and two wages earned outside the home) saw fit to comment negatively about the size of my house and its “carbon footprint” because it happened to be larger than his (childless and retired, we never go anywhere, really, not even on vacation whereas, like all Italians who consider themselves per bene, his family must rent a second house by the sea for the summer each year). He works for the EU and flies to Brussels, or whatever other city it is where they put the capital on odd years.. no waste in that.. no siree! They move the entire activity of the parliament (itself a duplication of effort, since it is a newly-invented extra level of governance) from one place to the next.. every six months, from Brussels to Strasbourg. Tell me this isn’t an expression of the maximum thermodynamic waste conceivable to do whatever supposed organizational work had been planned. See how organization and waste go hand-in-hand? 2 sides of the same coin, it appears to me.
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I guess I posted my reply in the wrong place,as this thread is finished,and you would not have received an email to advise that a reply had been posted.Anyway,I hope you find the loonpond site and Franzen excerpt below of passing interest.
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Hi Lidia,
Thank you for your reply.I am pleased you found it interesting.I should have mentioned that energy doesn’t cycle in factories either.Be an interesting world if it did.
Yes,there are so many facets to our predicament .The absurdities never end.I don’t
read much fiction lately,but if you haven’t read ‘Freedom’by Johnathon Franzen,read pages 333 -334 of the paperback edition for a tirade from Walter which will resonate with you.Also,if you are interested in getting an idea of the craziness of the media in Australia,checkout loonpond.blogspot.com.au occasionally.Most of the newspapers here are owned by Murdoch.The 30 march posting at loonpond about Miranda Devine gives you an idea of the climate change denialism regularly fed to the readers there.The ‘Australian’hasn’t made a profit for many years, but is maintained by Murdoch as a very useful propaganda sheet.I have posted this as a reply to my comment to avoid being squeezed to the right I assume it will appear below your comment.
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I believe the excerpt you are talking about is here…
https://collapseofindustrialcivilization.com/2014/03/27/the-biophysics-of-civilization-money-energy-and-the-inevitability-of-collapse/comment-page-1/#comment-22839
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That’s it.Thanks Mike.
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Fascinating little post by Ran Prieur… Although he doesn’t exactly name it, I will –Capitalist Industrial Civilization is driving people insane.
March 24. You’ve probably seen Steven Pinker’s argument that the world is getting less violent, because violent death rates are dropping. This View from Hell post, Homicide Rates, Suicide Rates, and Modern Medicine, argues that this is an illusion caused by high-tech medicine saving victims who would previously have died. “From 1931 to 1998, the United States homicide rate dropped by about 25%. But during that time, rates of aggravated assault increased by about 700%.” Meanwhile the suicide rate continues to rise, and Sister Y speculates that “in the absence of modern medicine, up to ten times as many people who poison, cut, hang, or suffocate themselves might succeed.”
The deeper problem here is that our culture is obsessed with avoiding death and acute physical injury, while being unaware of the grinding emotional trauma of going to school, looking for a job, being deep in debt, and generally being treated like cattle in a giant scheme to concentrate wealth and power ever more densely at the center.
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Capitalism doesn’t work any better at an imaginary wonderful periphery….than with a “dense” rich “center”. Never has, never will, that’s why we had thousands of years of slavery. It’s the ultimate fairy tale. And because we can’t face it, we can’t face, well, anything. I guess.
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A great quote from a man who had a somewhat dark, sordid, and pitiful life:
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In British Columbia we are preparing for climate change by taking steps to ensure our long term food security. And the best way to do that is to amend our 40 year old agricultural land protection laws to allow fracking on farm land. Doing it for the children.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1234710/b-c-proposes-big-changes-to-land-reserve/
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/new-alr-rules-open-farmland-to-development-1.922692
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That’s the spirit! let them drink the toxic brew. We’re trying to become the mutants in ‘The Hills Have Eyes’.
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“You said it would all collapse 5 years ago, and it didn’t,” said my dance partner this evening.
“We were expecting collapse from 2009 to 2012, but frantic money printing by governments, dropping interest rates to close to zero, and fracking and tar sands have postponed the collapse,” I said.
“I’ve never heard of tar sands. What’s that?”
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Check out the technotopia…
On April 3, 1988, the Los Angeles Times Magazine published a 25-year look ahead to 2013…
Can This Future Be Saved
In the year 2013, Los Angeles could be an amazing place to live — a technological utopia, an economic giant, a harmonious melding of cultures and races. But that vision will only become reality if solutions are found to such serious regional problems as crime, housing, education, the environment, and a changing population.
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But that part of the world actually looks like a big, dark-red blob at the moment. And the dark-red blob could cover the entire state. Worse than any science fiction movie.
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/
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We have robots now, except they are for killing not cooking and they don’t have floppy drives.
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http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-03/26/biometrics-the-good-and-bad
Get ready to have your biometrics tracked 24/7
It’s already too late to stop the ubiquitous tracking and monitoring of the public through biometrics, says Peter Waggett, Programme Leader at IBM’s Emerging Technology Group. We need to stop worrying about prevention, and start working out how to make the most of data garnered from that kind of surveillance.
“We’re fighting the wrong battle when we ask should we stop people being observed. That is not going to be feasible. We need to understand how to use that data better,” urged Waggett, who was speaking as part of a Nesta panel debate on what biometrics mean for the future of privacy.
“I’ve been working in biometrics for 20 years, and it’s reaching a tipping point where it’s going to be impossible not to understand where people are and what they are doing. Everything will be monitored. It’s part of the reason why when we put together the definition of biometrics it included biological and behavioural characteristics — it can be anything.”
To back up his point, Waggett identified a few of the futures once portrayed in science fiction movies, now a reality. Minority Report is generally the go to film for these kinds of comparisons. But it’s the commercial aspects of the film Waggett flagged up, rather than the gesture technology. In the film, the protagonist walks into a shop where an advert immediately pops up and draws on his past preferences to offer up some suggestions. “The one thing they got wrong is you won’t recognise you’re being scanned — the flashing red light in the film is for effect, but all that’s now feasible.”
[there’s more]
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http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/invasion_of_the_data_snatchers_20140327
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/dugan-darpa-google/
Electronic Tattoos and Passwords You Can Swallow: Google’s Regina Dugan Is a Badass
http://allthingsd.com/20130529/electronic-tattoos-and-passwords-you-can-swallow-googles-regina-dugan-is-a-badass/
yo, got you covered.
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Are you guys some kind of mentally retarded geniuses? The breakdown for the Garrett presentation was excellent. I can still feel the wind in my hair as the comments fly overhead. I fucking love anything to do with comics, since I’m old and Jack Kirby is my god. The Zen Motorcycle and Gravity’s Rainbow are 2 of the craziest fucking books in the universe. All this crazy shit tying philosophy, energy, carbon and money makes me bat shit crazy with frustration and confusion. Butr, no matter how complicated things are, if you can’t explain it to the average joe, then it’s probably wrong. I read recently that scientists can produce hydrogen from any plant material with enzymes at more than 100% efficiency, but physicists are the first to tell you that this is impossible. Physicists are the same people who tell you that you can travel across the universe through worm holes. Then they tell you there are multiple universes occupying the same time and space and that you can travel backwards through time. If I were religious, I would stick to the Bible, just because believing life after death is easier than the crazy shit physicists ask us to believe. For a starving man, too much food for thought, too fast, can kill you. I’ll be coming back repeatedly to this page for the next few days. Mechanistic bafflegab meant to intimidate, only intimates a fear of the unknown. The 2 most dangerous types are,
1. A smart man – because he is afraid of being found out.
2. A rich man – because he is afraid of being found without.
As Doofuss, the great Kentucky hillbilly philosopher says, “Keep It Simple!”
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This should have bee left here. Delete the one below please.
Jack Kirby. Did you say Jack Kirby? God even at 56, I still get goose bumps reading most stories he worked on. That there’s another Kirby fan in the Collapse room is a nice perk.
I can still remember the rush of excitement when his Fourth World Series came out (Forever People, New Gods, Mister Miracle and even Jimmy Olsen). The stories he attempted to tell were mid blowing to the mind of a 12-14 year old. A huge tale told on a wide tapestry touching on themes and issues that were in line with my own thoughts and feelings. It was around that time i had found and devoured the Lord of the Rings trilogy and came upon a copy of Steranko’s History of Comics.
Kirby could take you from the dregs of the Lower East Side to the future filled with techo gadgetry. One of Kirby’s last work was the autobiographical piece “Street Code” which captured the way growing up on the Lower East Side was no walk in the park during the early part of the 20th century.
And the there was Kirby’s attempt at a novel called the Horde which focused on China’s more centralized role in the world. I’ve read parts of it and considering from the world Kirby came it’s extremely prophetic in some ways. I was floored that Kirby could sense the direction the world was heading in. If you look at his OMAC, a dystopian series set in the near future parts of it could easily pass for the world we talk about here. It was an oddity for the comic book world.
A recent interview in Playboy with Stan Lee still has Lee still diminishing the role of Kirby and Ditko and taking much of the credit for creating Marvel.
http://www.playboy.com/playground/view/stan-lee-marvel-playboy-interview
Sorry for taking things off track here.
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Here’s an update, that I brought up a little while back (somewhere) xraymike79:
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2014/03/ice-radar-grawk/
Science Graphic of the Week: Radar Reveals Massive Antarctic Ice Retreat
Over the last 20 years, radar from satellites has created a continuous snapshot of the ice sheet in Western Antarctica — and shown that the ice might be thinning faster than previously thought.
Glaciers are enormous flows of ice that move downhill and crash into the sea. The Pine Island Glacier, seen in the GIF above, is the largest glacier on the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. As much as 10 percent of the ice sheet flows into the ocean through this glacier.
The ice sheet protrudes out over the sea, and the point where it leaves land and starts floating is known as the grounding line. Figuring out exactly where the grounding line is located is an important part of understanding the total mass of the ice. Scientists can drill through the ice to figure out where it rests over land but it is not ideal to send people to this region all the time. Overhead satellites, like the European Space Agency’s ERS missions, can provide better long-term monitoring of the ice.
The part of Pine Island Glacier that extends over water bobs up and down on the surface, bending and stretching parts just above the grounding line and leaving a signature that can be seen with radar. As warm water eats away at the ice sheet, it thins the ice and consequently drives the grounding line backwards. A recent study looked at the position of the grounding line since 1991, showing that it had retreated by 12.5 miles on average while the ice had thinned by more than 650 feet. The thinning shows no sign of slowing down, suggesting that Pine Island could contribute more to sea-level rise than previously projected.
[take a look]
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11227608
Has Fukushima radiation entered NZ’s ecosystem?
Scientists are to check whether New Zealand muttonbirds that spend the winter off the coast of Japan have been exposed to radiation from the damaged Fukushima nuclear power plant.
In a new pilot study, University of Auckland scientists will investigate whether radioactive cesium has entered the New Zealand ecosystem or food chain via the birds.
The wrecked plant and its trapped contents have loomed over Japan since floodwaters from the March 2011 tsunami knocked out the plant’s back-up generators that were supposed to keep cooling its nuclear fuel.
The over-heating sparked meltdowns in three reactors and forced 150,000 to flee, and tens of thousands have been unable to return home to areas contaminated by radiation.
In the study, researchers will test the birds’ feathers for gamma rays that indicate the presence of the radioactive isotope cesium-134.
Feathers will be collected from prime muttonbird sites in the South Island, particularly Stewart Island.
New Zealand sooty shearwaters or titi migrate annually, spending the summer mating and raising their chicks in New Zealand before over-wintering off the coast of Japan.
Dr David Krofcheck, of the university’s department of physics, said the research was “very much about taking a precautionary approach” as there was no evidence to indicate that the birds had been vectors of radioactivity.
“But detection of gamma rays would tell us whether the birds spend sufficient time near Fukushima to accumulate cesium-134 from nuclear fission,” he said.
“Obviously the issue would then become whether that radioactivity is being absorbed into local ecosystems or the food chain.”
[there’s a little more]
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Jack Kirby. Did you say Jack Kirby? God even at 56, I still get goose bumps reading most stories he worked on. That there’s another Kirby fan in the Collapse room is a nice perk.
I can still remember the rush of excitement when his Fourth World Series came out (Forever People, New Gods, Mister Miracle and even Jimmy Olsen). The stories he attempted to tell were mid blowing to the mind of a 12-14 year old. A huge tale told on a wide tapestry touching on themes and issues that were in line with my own thoughts and feelings. It was around that time i had found and devoured the Lord of the Rings trilogy and came upon a copy of Steranko’s History of Comics.
Kirby could take you from the dregs of the Lower East Side to the future filled with techo gadgetry. One of Kirby’s last work was the autobiographical piece “Street Code” which captured the way growing up on the Lower East Side was no walk in the park during the early part of the 20th century.
And the there was Kirby’s attempt at a novel called the Horde which focused on China’s more centralized role in the world. I’ve read parts of it and considering from the world Kirby came it’s extremely prophetic in some ways. I was floored that Kirby could sense the direction the world was heading in. If you look at his OMAC, a dystopian series set in the near future parts of it could easily pass for the world we talk about here. It was an oddity for the comic book world.
A recent interview in Playboy with Stan Lee still has Lee still diminishing the role of Kirby and Ditko and taking much of the credit for creating Marvel.
http://www.playboy.com/playground/view/stan-lee-marvel-playboy-interview
Sorry for taking things off track here.
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This is an absolutely pivotal article. I’ve been an admirer of Garrett’s work for quite a while now, so it’s very gratifying to see some crumbs of truth slipping out into public view. I can not thank you enough for publishing this piece. It takes my breath away.
My first glimpse of this worldview came as an intuitive epiphany just over a year ago, and everything I’ve read since then has served to confirm its validity. Look up the work of Stanley N. Salthe and Arto Anilla, for example, or you can find some of my thermodynamic reading list on my web site. It’s a perspective that seems to be spreading, even in the hard-core science community.
I am not a scientist, and no, a degree in Computer Science does NOT count. My development of the idea was based on two things – my native ability to read scientific papers, and some intuitive ability at pattern recognition. The conclusions I came to were largely similar to Garrett’s: collective human behavior is deterministic (though individual behavior may not be); this determinism is built into our genetic code through natural selection which is itself a manifestation of the Second Law in open systems – see Odum/Lotka’s MPP; collective human behavior is guided by those inbuilt genetic tendencies towards growth; and that all system growth in size or complexity (including the strength and depth of social hierarchies) is dependent on energy flow and thus beholden to the Second Law. and that we cannot get off the train because even if individuals might be able to make that choice, there is nowhere else to go. The human enterprise has manifested an emergent quality – a one-way growth function that will be pursued by the collective for as long as the conditions permit. We bend all our social structures – politics, economics, technology,education, communication – to the service of this one-way function. The fact that some individuals can go against this flow means as little as the motion vector of an individual molecule of oxygen in the eyewall of a hurricane.
I regret that this absolute determinism rubs so many the wrong way, but as far as I can see it’s the closest thing to a core truth that has been discovered so far about the human situation today
There is – for me at any rate – nothing more to be said. Kudos for running such an important article. I’m deeply grateful.
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Nice to see you here, Paul.
Ah, yes, that wonderful magic word ’emergent’, that scientists use to cover up their ignorance, waving their arm as they say it.
Because it never explains WHAT emerges, nor HOW it emerges. So when you ask for those details, they stare at their feet for a moment, look their watch and remember an urgent appointment.
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I’m happy with this Wiki definition of emergence:
“In philosophy, systems theory, science, and art, emergence is the way complex systems and patterns arise out of a multiplicity of relatively simple interactions. Emergence is central to the theories of integrative levels and of complex systems.
Biology can be viewed as an emergent property of the laws of chemistry which, in turn, can be viewed as an emergent property of particle physics. Similarly, psychology could be understood as an emergent property of neurobiological dynamics, and free-market theories understand economy as an emergent feature of psychology.”
For the layman, a system behavior that is apparently an intrinsic property of the system, but cannot be predicted from first principles due to the complexity of the system, is emergent.
From my point of view,collective human growth-oriented behavior is an emergent feature of non-equilibrium thermodynamics, with a couple of steps in between such as organic chemistry, the appearance of life and then the development of intelligence.
All strung like shimmering glass beads on the silver thread of entropy.
YMMV.
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In fact my mileage does vary a bit. Inventing a word like emergence as a descriptor does not in fact explain anything. Ulvfugl is correct. Emergence is merely a place holder for ignorance. I’ve said it before: Learning what we don’t know is the first step toward true knowledge.
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Things have turned ugly again while I’ve had my attention focused elsewhere, so I don’t want to add any further ugliness of my own to the heap. However, I want to address (very briefly) the idea of emergence discussed above.
All words are inventions, so to coin a new word or apply an existing one anew to describe some phenomenon is not necessarily obfuscation. Examples of emergent (or just poorly understood) properties exist all around us, e.g., sleep, gravity, and consciousness. Describing them as emergent properties does not strike me as disreputable but rather an admission that we still don’t understand them any too well. Some like to characterize that as hand-waving or misdirection or propaganda. I don’t see it that way.
All knowledge is provisional and subject to revision. It would seem that none of us but Ulvfugl is ready to drop the mechanistic model for quantum theory. I’ve already registered my objections, which I won’t repeat. Basically, we’re still arguing over what thing exactly led to the monstrosity that dooms us. It’s a curiosity but still rather heedless.
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Sorry for any disparaging remarks which may have been cast your way. I have quoted you on this blog before, so I do appreciate the work you have done.
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No worries, Mike. I’m not attached to either my ideas or my status. If someone needs the math to convince them, it’s much better if they read Garrett. I was just a placeholder till this article came out 🙂
I wouldn’t have missed this for anything.
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Glad to see you chime in, Paul. I’m one of those rubbed the wrong way by your conclusions (and those of Garrett). Yet I understand their validity, too. The rub relates to the determinism of aggregate populations vs. the agency of the individual, the latter of which I’m loathe to give up. I recognize that on the whole we’re social creatures trapped by our genetic programming, but I haven’t yet merged my identity back into the mob. (Gawd, what an awful prospect, that, reminiscent of the Borg collective.) Whether fully accurate or not, we still regard the individual mind/soul as a sovereign entity, not a mere number among other numbers.
So I can understand the alternatives and weigh the science, I can make my peace with how we’re locked into our fate (short term or long), but I still squirm out from under the notion that nothing I do matters. It still matters to me, which is a statement of defiant humanism.
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I’m not giving up on expressing my individual thought, wishes, dreams, etc. It’s just that I know there is this Superorganism, an oafish and uncaring monstrosity, that is clumsily stumbling into the future and we’re all being dragged along with it.
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I’ve tentatively modified my stance on determinism, in a way you might prefer. It looks to me as though what makes collective behavior deterministic is our adaptive entrainment – our urge to create a cohesive social group. This behavioural tendency appears to be universal, so it’s probably genetic. That’s where groupthink and acculturation come from. An individual on their own isn’t subject to these entrainment pressures (which have both internal and external components), so is able to go against the flow to some degree.
Of course, no man is an island. In the olden golden days, an individual for whom Borgification was anathema could simply light out for the frontier, where there was less social influence. Unfortunately, humans have proven to be so good at growth that there are few inhabitable frontiers left. Within a society, an individual can only swim against the tide if they are willing to forgo status, or even respect. It’s very hard to do.
The analogy I draw is to a hurricane. An individual molecule may have a vector that is counter to the larger organized flow of the whole. The hurricane as a whole though, is what does the damage, and there is nothing any group of molecules can do about that. And the whole thing is driven by energy gradients.
So, collective determinism is the name of the game, but there may be a small (though closing) window for individual agency as the human hurricane grows larger.
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WARNING! BRACE FOR IMPACT!
Short rant by Tom Lewis
http://www.dailyimpact.net/?powerpress_pinw=2112-podcast
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Thanks for the link.
As we here know, we’re living in a corrupt and manipulated globalised system gone mad.
Guy McPherson said ‘brace for impact’ 3 or 4 years ago. Unfortunately, the system has more resilience – more untapped low EROEI fossil fuel wells and more money-printing capacity- than any of us imagined possible, and Guy did tend to be ahead of events by 5 to 10 years. A year or so ago he was talking in terms of the southwest of the US ‘becoming largely uninhabitable within 5 years’.
Using the unscientific postulation [of Guy being 5-10 years ahead of events] gives us between 1 and 7 years to prepare for impact, unless you live in Greece, Spain, Portugal, Japan, Ukraine etc.
The much-discussed 40% rise in gas prices for Ukraine could be enough to set off an avalanche in a few months.
Evidence indicates a super El Nino forming.
In the here and now, following weeks of mild drought we have had several days of cloudy skies with no rain, and the same applies today. The 5-day forecast is for no rain..
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it’s happened before, it was called the Dust Bowl, and ther’s people who still remember it, just barely.
the Southwest US is barely habitable as it is, it’s only made that way thru massive energy/water inputs.
the Ogallala Aquifer is rapidly depleting.
” Certain aquifer zones are now empty; these areas will take over 100,000 years to replenish naturally through rainfall.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer
it’s not just coal, uranium, and oil that we are mining, to use a blanket term, it’s also water.
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I related the substance of that podcast to my wife… She wanted to know more about the “five second rule”. Aargh!
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I am going to drink more coffee and induce a mental state at the “edge of chaos”. As I toss my neurons into a pulsing state of high excitation, I will ask one simple question, “Why is growth the unquestioned goal of human societies?” O.K. I’ve got it. Growth equals jobs, jobs equals money, money equals goods and services, goods and services equals dopamine, dopamine makes you remember – to do it again. Those neurological rewards go way back in our evolutionary history when we were just tiny little cells seeking warmth and nourishment and reproduction. We’re still a bunch of tiny little cells seeking warmth and nourishment and reproduction, but now each pulse of dopamine can strengthen the attendant visual, tactile, auditory and olfactory hologram in our heads. Boom, here it comes, another trip to the “edge of chaos.” Divergent parts of my brain are creating a new state of excitement, the dopamine is dripping slowly as I imagine the coffee’s sweet aroma and the sugar and milk mixed in. I can no longer control myself, there is no reason I should control myself, I’m walking towards the kitchen (a meat robot?)……..Thank you GDP, thank you job, thank you dopamine secreting cells, thank you brain, I will certainly be doing this again and again and again until either I or the technological system to which I belong pass over the edge of chaos and achieve true equilibrium, forever and ever, Amen.
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Damn! I miss George Carlin.
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Thanks Mike. I was always happy to let them give $2 of my taxes every year to help fund the NFB. A lot of great work has come out of there. Harper cut 10% off their budget in 2012. Energy subsidies are holding steady in the true north strong and free.
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Authority, hubris, herd mentality, collective stupidity, and the likely consequences of a combination of the aforementioned were well understood decades ago.
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For what it’s worth in a society that thinks free energy is energy you don’t have to pay for or energy you can acquire by holding a piece of wire above your head, I was taught the essentials of thermodynamics at university 40+ years ago.
I was not taught Fractional Reserve Banking or the impossibility of maintaining compounding interest Ponzi finance, nor the fundamental flaws in economic theory in the economics course I completed. I discovered all the fraud of finance and economics much later, outside university.
However, 45 years ago there was an emerging awareness of the non-infinite nature of the resources necessary to maintain industrial economies.
At the time the battle between physical scientists and economists resulted in a ‘score’ of something like scientists 4: economists 6.
The goal posts were shifted so that ensuing battles resulted in the ‘scores’ being scientists 0: economists 10.
Fairly soon the ‘score’ in the battle between physical scientists and economists will be scientists 10: economists 0.
However, it will be far too late to do anything about the horrific damage done by economists..
Back to Free Energy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbs_free_energy
Gibbs free energy, the second law of thermodynamics, and metabolism[edit]
A particular chemical reaction is said to proceed spontaneously if the hypothetical total change in entropy of the universe due to that reaction is greater than or equal to zero Joules per Kelvin. As discussed in the Overview, under certain assumptions Gibbs free energy can be thought of as a negative proxy for the change in total entropy of the universe (it’s negative because change in Gibbs free energy is negative when change in total entropy of the universe is positive, and vice versa). Thus, a reaction with a positive Gibbs free energy will not proceed spontaneously. However, in biological systems, energy inputs from other energy sources (including the sun and exothermic chemical reactions) are “coupled” with reactions that are not entropically favored (i.e. have a Gibbs free energy above zero). Between two (or more) coupled reactions, total entropy in the universe always increases. This coupling allows an endergonic reactions, such as photosynthesis and DNA synthesis, to proceed without decreasing the total entropy of the universe. Thus biological systems do not violate the second law of thermodynamics.
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Hmph. So it says on wiki. Following the calculations which treat the world and the Universe as a 19thC steam engine.
So what happens when the Universe is infinite and not a closed system ?
What happens when the stuff that it is made of changes when it is observed ?
You know, I’ve become so used to looking at the IPCC climate stuff and all the mainstream political stuff, and knowing they make up crap, it came as a bit of a shock to discover that the physicists are just as shabby and useless as everyone else.
http://guymcpherson.com/forum/index.php?topic=591.msg44113#msg44113
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I was going to reply with factual information but then remembered you are living on a different planet from us, so whatever we say about the planet we live on does not apply on your planet..
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Very droll, kevin. I back my case with the latest science from the highest quality sources.
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The latest science does not necessarily displace or disprove earlier science. Many concepts developed in the 18th century are just as valid toady as when first conceived. Gases obey Boyles Law most of the time, springs obey Hook’s law most of the time, Avogadro’s number can be applied with considerable accuracy most of the time. And when they do not apply we usually know the reason.
I am aware of all the arguments, including ‘is it a particle or a wave?’ and ‘trying to measure it as a wave makes it behave like a particle, and trying to measure it as a particle make it behave like a wave’, and ‘trying to measure position accurately decreases accuracy of measurement of momentum’, and ‘reversing the spin of an electron causes its pair to reverse spin even though no force was applied to the partner’, the major principles of Einstein’s theory of relativity, the bending of light by gravity etc..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
I am of the opinion that whether the universe is finite or infinite, whether there are multiple universes, parallel universes; anti-matter universes etc. is of no relevance to this discussion.
The conclusion we reach is always the same: humanity has screwed up monumentally as a direct consequence of the widespread use of fossil fuels, the globalised economic-financial system and refusal of the people who operate the system to countenance any other possibilities.
.
.
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@ kevin
kevin, no disrespect, but you are out of touch and don’t understand why I am making the points I am making. It has nothing to do with the Uncertainty Principle.
OF COURSE it makes a difference whether the Universe is infinite or NOT, because if it is infinite the Laws are different than if it is a closed contained bounded system.
Same as if you are locked in a small room you’re going to run out of air, the sound bounces off the walls, etc, everything is different to the case of being out on the open tundra a 1000 miles in every direction.
When people worked out the laws, they assumed a closed system, all heat and energy accounted for somewhere, nothing lost. In an infinite system without ANY boundaries, those rules do not apply. In the 19thC, nobody knew of black holes or multiverses, where the energy leaks out, or in, and upsets the accounting.
What is so amazing to me, is that you castigate everyone for being incapable of grasping what is so obvious to you re the environment, and yet you yourself have this blind spot re the physics and biology, that Mike and Paul also appear to have.
How can people be so radical and progressive in some areas and so backward in others ?
I suppose it is like Sartre, who changed European culture with his radical existential philosophy but refused to believe that anything that he couldn’t see with his own eyes existed, so molecules, bacteria, etc, were all conspiracy concocted by bourgeois scientists.
The conclusion we reach is always the same: humanity has screwed up monumentally as a direct consequence of the widespread use of fossil fuels, the globalised economic-financial system and refusal of the people who operate the system to countenance any other possibilities.
Yes, and Paul Chefurka, Gail Wit’s End, and others, have all tried to understand how we got into this mess, and whether there was any other option.
I don’t think that there is anything that anybody can do to stop a mass extinction event.
The people with the power, particularly Washington, Walls St., Pentagon, etc, the Empire, and then going down the scale, EU, China, G20, BRICS, etc, don’t seem capable or inclined toward any appropriate co-ordinated response, they’ll just carry on making it worse.
So, I’ve been trying to understand ‘What is it that we are destroying ?’
Classical physics and thermodynamics is a crock of shit from this perspective. And how amazing, when I point that out, to be met with the reactions I have received 🙂
Nevermind. It doesn’t matter, does it. 🙂
.
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see below
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The point I was trying to make earlier is that GDP is a form of fraud and has little to do with wealth, either real natural wealth or phony financial wealth, and any attempt to link physical science to GDP runs into severe difficulty…… a bit like trying to link bets on horse races with gravity when you know the betting market is rigged. Gravity is a factor in stopping horses drifting off into space and the rate at which displaced jockeys fall off horses, but attempting to make serious connections is futile.
What astounds me is that people who should know better continue to believe in use GDP because it is official, even when they know everything else that is official is a lie or is based on lies.. .
The aspect of Garret’s work that I believe is worthy of praise is that he clearly demonstrates what many of us have demonstrated by other means: that it is impossible to reduce emissions while operating the globalised phony economic system.
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Yup 🙂
The recent floods in UK will show up positively in the GDP because of all the economic activity involved with the repairs.
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Precisely!
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For me, the takeaway from his work is that most of our energy consumption goes to support previously built infrastructure – meaning that growth carries an automatic energy price tag, and that a stagnation in energy growth results in dissolution.
I agree about GDP, but we simply don’t have any better, readily available measure for the growth of material “wealth”. Garrett certainly recognizes this problem, because we’ve discussed it.
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@PC says “we simply don’t have any better, readily available measure for the growth of material wealth”
Sure we do. Since every space monkey hanging out in this neck of the ‘tubes is already an independent & original thinker, there’s no reason we can’t define a range of terms that accurately depict the environment that is observable to those with a certain perspective.
For example, I define wealth as:
– longevity
– quality of life
Quality of life can be further refined as:
– health
– opportunity
Health is a function of:
– gross calories
– caloric nutritional value
– environment ie air, water & soil
– medical care
Opportunity includes things like:
– degree of work vs leisure
– comfort
– safety
Comfort starts addressing the more traditional measures of GDP:
– lighting
– entertainment
– cooking
– refrigeration
– heating
– cooling
– transportation
– sewage
I can go on, but the basic point is the ultimate end goal of energy consumption is simply to live a long, healthy and interesting life free of major work. But achieving those basic objectives requires incredibly intensive concentrations of energy.
Looking at the list above – and I’m sure others have different/additional priorities/components – it’s quite easy to see that there is **NO ONE** who is going to give up any of these comforts to “save the planet”.
This is especially true due to the fact that 99.9% of our fellow man (a) can’t begin to understand the core issues in the first place; and (b) if they did, they would also be smart enough to understand that game theory dictates that any voluntary cut-backs undertaken by one would quickly be subsumed by others who did not participate.
As to GDP, of course it’s a terrible measure of wealth – it’s meant to be. After all, 99.9% of everything that comes out of government is designed to fool the clueless. GDP is just another tool in the propaganda arsenal.
Three examples:
– everyone could jet around the world non-stop creating absolutely nothing other than consuming mass quantities of jet fuel. Plus to “GDP”;
– alternative, we could light the world’s oil fields on fire, then counting consumption as a net increase to GDP;
– the above isn’t really that far fetched. WWII was tremendously destructive, and probably chewed up some number of years supply of resources, but it’s generally recognized as a huge net plus to economic growth in the US.
And for Kevin – if you review my post above, you will note I described credit aggregates created as claims against future wealth are treated as a key component in measuring GDP. Because it’s based entirely on expectations, rather than real wealth, of course it’s corrupted. That’s what QE is all about – to corrupt core data in order to manipulate & ride the herd in a desired direction.
I understand your excitement about learning about finance, but after being fortunate to bail early as a result of playing the game, I’m done providing entertainment to others along the lines of the Monty Python “Argument” skit.
Also, my advice to those who think one must take a secondary, lower status, position in society as a result of understanding what is occurring might consider looking at their own (negative) personality. I take the entirely opposite position, in that knowing what is occurring gives one a huge advantage.
Anecdote – did you know the “Big 4”, yeah those guys who built the Southern Pacific railroad and ultimately controlled Calif for about 70 years, started out as regular Joe hardware store owners? Yep – supplying gear to the miners. They got in early, knew what was going on, and positioned themselves accordingly.
I suggest assuming a similar orientation towards the future.
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GPI (Genuine Progress Index or Indicator) was devised at least 15 years ago, and assigned negative values to activities that generate negative outcomes.
like everything else in any way connected with reality, the adoption of GPI was sabotaged by money-lenders, corporations and politicians, and, of course, most folk have never heard of it.
Too late to do anything much now. We will be stuck with Global Destruction Paradigm until the system implodes because that is what the Orcs require in order to keep their Ponzi schemes functioning till the last possible moment .
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@B9K9,
How would you quantify your proposal? One of the most important things Garrett has done IMO is to assemble an admittedly rough estimate of the world’s accumulated material wealth through history, by using calculated and estimated GDP numbers as a proxy. That allowed him to do the arithmetic that suggests that the energy required per dollar of accumulated material wealth is a constant. The significance of that finding is huge, and IMO far surpasses any cavil about the accuracy of the proxy. I’d like a better numerical representation from material wealth too, but we don’t have one at this point.
And as another side point, his use of raw energy rather than exergy in his power calculations also introduced an imprecision as the energy sources shift over time. As with GDP, that’s neither here nor there in context of what his arithmetic reveals.
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Mind blowing amounts of embedded energy invested in the colossus that screams “Feed me!!!”
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I’m not sure whether I see the difference, because one definition of wealth is certainly that of being in a position to burn it off, as did older cultures, to a lesser degree, with potlatches and pyramids (because their access to surplus energy was more limited than our own has been, is an assumption I would make, rather than assuming their noble restraint.) Wealth isn’t only what you have, but what you can burn off without flinching.
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Lidia,
Some pretty good comments from you this evening.
“what you can burn off without flinching”
For whatever reason I was reminded of this recent story…

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Definitions are important here, Lidia. Garrett’s definition of “wealth” is “the value of manufactured physical goods and infrastructure”. That’s why GDP is a poor proxy, though the best we have at the moment. There are other useful definitions, but they don’t lend themselves to a thermodynamic analysis.
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You’re right to point out that there are different definitions, to be sure. Wealth is, in its literal sense, the quality of being well, just as health is the quality of being hale. Wealthy people and societies usually are “well”, relatively speaking. While GDP is a poor measure of wealth in that sense, it’s actually a pretty good measure of wealth *expenditure* though, the rate at which resources are turned into waste, with the occasional piece of residual infrastructure having been created (not initially seen as waste, but over time most infrastructure will not be seen as having any retained value; instead it will be a liability, if anything). Wealth is not “infrastructure” to the extent that the “infrastructure” serves to burn off energy and material resources, and increase waste, faster than would have happened without it. I think it is a misunderstanding to look at a road or a school building and call that “wealth”, as anyone who has been to a town meeting recently can attest.
“The value of manufactured physical goods and infrastructure” is quickly reaching a negative in many contexts: the housing bubble is a good example, but even if you look around your home at things you can’t even give away anymore, but which have an enormous amount of embodied energy. My mom was on hospice and was given one of those anti-bedsore vinyl air mattresses for the month or so at the end of her life while she was bedridden. Despite the fact that it had never been soiled, and could easily be sterilized if it had, I was told it now had to be disposed of as “biohazard waste”. The increased use of food packaging and disposable single-serving units is another example, as is the growth of restaurants and the decline of home cooking. The number of chopsticks the Chinese now throw away each day is impressionable… these used to be personal items which were saved until they broke. What is the “value” of an estimated 80 billion dirty chopsticks thrown in the trash each year, just by the Chinese, so certainly vastly more than that world-wide? The “value” of those chopsticks isn’t the price paid for them, and It’s not even zero, is it? It’s a negative number, because now you have all these chopsticks mixed up with your regular trash, which bears the cost of dealing with in some fashion, even if it’s just paying the mafia to dump your trash out at sea.
I know some economics do use the concepts of “stocks” and “flows” in their work, and that certainly would seem to approach a thermodynamic appreciation.
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Lidia, here’s a bit more on my definition of wealth in the context that Garrett uses the term.
What I think Garrett is saying is that the “wealth” represented by a durable good is exactly identical to the exergy that was embodied in it during its creation.
Subsequent to the creation of the good, the Second Law mandates that its embodied exergy will decay into entropy at a rate depending on the nature of the good. (Planned obsolescence is the deliberate practice of leaving entropy pathways open to hasten the rate of exergy decay.)
The expenditure of further exergy on maintenance can be viewed as replenishing the exergy that has been lost to entropy. Replenishment restores the exergy content of the good to something closer to (but never identical to) its original quantity. If a good is not maintained, the foregone maintenance exergy is instead diverted to the creation of a replacement good.
“Embodied exergy” is a hard quantity to measure precisely, especially on a global level where we have 196 nations all at different levels of technological development with different energy profiles. So Garrett is really looking for a proxy for the exergy used in the creation of durable goods. GDP sucks at that by definition, but we don’t have any other measure that goes back far enough in history to give us a baseline.
The World Bank tracks the value of nations’ industrial output in constant dollars, which would be a better proxy. Unfortunately it’s not available for all nations, and goes back only to 1960 or so. This is similar to a measure called “Gross Fixed Capital Formation”, and over the last 50 years or so this has turned in a performance of 22% to 24% of GDP, meaning that GDP is actually a reasonable proxy despite its shortcomings.
Again, Garrett’s key finding (that the power required by a civilization is directly proportional to its cumulative history wealth) that doesn’t depend on the absolute accuracy of the proxy chosen. If the number he comes up with is 9.7 mw/$ or 7.1 mw/$ doesn’t matter. This is a phenomenally important finding, because it speaks directly to the root cause of the constant expansion of energy and goods production world-wide.
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Jay Hanson is abuzz about this video. It looks to be worth watching. I’ve added it to my collection on this site. The following are some choice comments on Hanson’s discussion group concerning the video:
Hanson says…
This video is about a hypothetical social collapse from a global pandemic that begins in Asia. The only star whom I recognized was Joseph Tainter. It was mostly narrated by experts in the field of natural disasters who cited experience in other disasters, especially hurricanes Katrina, Sandy, and the California earthquakes.
A couple of experts, including Tainter, mentioned that liquid fossil fuels were the indispensable key to our civilization – especially fuels for farming and commercial trucking. When the trucks cannot get fuel, it’s all over: no fuel for aircraft, no gasoline for cars, no food for the stores, no medical supplies for the hospitals, no communications for anyone, etc.
I can’t recall for certain, but I believe the US death toll from the disease is over 100 million. Meanwhile, the hospitals are turning away patients because they have no room. We see dead people and pets everywhere. Roaming gangs of armed men loot food from homes, gas from cars, gain control of the warehouses, etc.
Our hypothetical family (man, woman, boy) tried to stay put in LA, but ran out of supplies and left for friends in Idaho. Unfortunately, they can’t drive out of LA because all the roads are clogged with abandoned cars or barricaded by gangs. Eventually, they walk out of LA in the riverbeds, hot wire a car in the desert, and then drive/walk to a small town in Idaho.
There isn’t any gratuitous violence in this video, it is all suggestions.
This program was (apparently) on commercial TV: THE HISTORY CHANNEL. I found this video to be totally compatible with the collapse behavior that I expect to occur (hopefully after I am gone).
Collapse is going mainstream.
Nate Hagens says…
I think things like this [video] do way more harm than good.
It makes people who watch it make their own conclusions about the future and become deterministic/violent/anti-social. Locks them into a narrow behavioral window because it immediately goes to flight or fight sympathies. This is something to be shared on lists like these, not on History Channel (though HC viewers are already mostly in that deterministic/anarchistic demographic).
Paul Chefurka says…
Postapocalyptic narratives have a long history in the media. Nuclear war used to be a favourite, and some very intense movies were made about it (esp. one by the Beeb, that looked too tough for me to even watch on my PC).
I’m not in favour of blocking this thought-line from others – that strikes me as terribly paternalistic. Let people see all possible scenarios, and make up their own minds, sez I. Do movies like this corrupt human behaviour any more than the rampant alienation we are already soaking in? Maybe a shock treatment on this score would wake a few people up – for good, not for evil.
Nate Hagens says…
I am not in favor of blocking the thought-line – just being more balanced. From prior experience, the only people who ACCEPT invitations to be ‘experts’ on History Channel are some combination of subversive, non-mainstream, status monkeys or otherwise have some childhood pyschic pendelum where their ego feels the need to be on TV. In my case, they lied about who the other people would be on the show – I had initially declined, but then they called back and mentioned all these (moderate) environmental scientists and so i went to New York.
I could argue that telling people there is nothing they can do and just to look forward to things falling apart/us going extinct is a different variety of paternalism.
I actually approached the parent of History Channel to do one of these shows but from a pro-social [perspective], what is possible/needed standpoint. They considered it but ultimately declined – know why? Wasn’t stimulating/dramatic enough to sell advertising. The show linked above obviously was. We (on this list) know the future will be constrained by resources and opportunities that we’ve had the last 50+ years. We then leap to various conclusions based on that – some of which are definitely possible. But recall we still are consuming over 100 X what our bodies need in USA. I contend that planting in people’s minds [the scenario] that ‘resource contribution to society is going down, so you need to buy guns and stuff to protect your family’ without balancing narratives will end up making things worse. I already see it with people around me – depends how they are first exposed to this stuff what their reaction is. From a climate perspective, one shouldn’t care about this trajectory, but living in the highest medicated, highest gun ownership country in the history of the world, the #1 concern for the next 10-15 years is social stability. This show and ones like it DO NOT help.
Hamlet Jones says…
…in 1984, BBC produced THREADS. Ugh. It’s the BBC version of The Day After. It feels more modern, and scary, than the first one, but I didn’t care for the dopey human-drama angles presented.
As I recall, there was significant t.v. discussion after the airing of The Day After (Nightline?). There was no commercial interruption during the broadcast. If the country were to air it again, we could initiate a national conversation. Ultimately, it’s up to the leadership to decide…
Nate Hagens says…
[I] totally agree we need national conversation on these issues. but these history channel episodes dont foster debate or intellectual inqury imo. They foster determinism.
And the leadership (current) won’t decide. Way too risky. Almost by definition they will wait till events happen, then react to them. They are followers, not leaders, as long as we optimize profits as a culture and species.
Paul Chefurka says…
My inclination is to keep my hands off the tiller and see what unfolds. I do not tell others to do the same. I just tell them that’s what I do, and offer some of the ways it benefits me if they’re interested. I have no prescriptions.
I will tell people that I think there is nothing to be done, that I am a strong determinist when it comes to collective behavior, and why I hold each of those views. What they make of it is up to them. I haven’t found many people that resonate with such an approach. They’re usually too mired in acculturated groupthink about the moral necessity for action…
Wit’s End says…
That horse has left the barn. Have you seen what is popular in movies lately?? America is steeped in doomer porn zombie fests.
Personally, I think these look great, I can’t wait to see them!
A million Ways to Die in the West: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KniKvVxaM1o
Noah: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OSaJE2rqxU
Edge of Tomorrow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLe_qO4AE-M
The Purge 2 – Anarchy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yaoh3PqHG7I
R. Pauli says…
The War Game and the other nuke war dramas were essentially propaganda either for the West or promoting nuclear disarmament. There was more of a real enemy – them. And detente seemed to prevail.
Today with global warming doom, we can only blame carbon capitalism, but that has so rewarded society with carbon affluence that the battle lines are hard to define an enemy that is not ourselves. Who do we blame? Everyone? Exxon? Humans?
But with a bio-armageddon – even one nurtured by global warming, we have a pure, blameless doom scenario. We all know that diseases – like the 1918 flu pandemic, or polio, just happens randomly. We get to experience the fiction of doom and maybe we can apply it to other traumas.
Global warming climate destabilization will be experienced as thousands of weather calamities that will wear us down in trying to recover. It will be more dramatic locally and individually – but each region will be suffering in different ways. Inexorably growing – now there are a few hundred thousand victims (mostly 3rd world) each year, more and more – closer to our world.
I tend to follow the notion that we are already engaged in the end struggles – it is just not so obvious and clear. The Great Global Warming History Docu-Drama has not yet been made. The most plausible, realistic movie has not yet been made. But it may have elements of every Armageddon movie ever made.
——————
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A further thought by Hanson…
“Total collapse doesn’t mean everyone dies. However, IMHO, since we are globalized, modern infrastructure systems (where they exist) will all collapse. Billions perished worldwide in the hypothetical pandemic video. I expect a couple of billion will survive so they can overshoot and collapse again…
Again, IMHO, because of our global population density and the interdependent way we live now, death rates for the next pandemic will be considerably higher, percentage-wise, than the Black Death.
During the Spanish Flue pandemic, some small towns closed their borders with armed men and were spared. It will occur again with the next pandemic.
If you plan on leaving the big city, you must do so before you are forced to leave.
We have discussed this book in years past. It’s a great glimpse into the future:
The Ghost Map: The Story of London’s Most Terrifying Epidemic–and How It Changed Science, Cities, and the Modern World
http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/bookreviewghostmaptraceslegacy.html ”
————-
LOL. An interesting tidbit from that book:
Ghost Map also contains surprising historical nuggets: Did you know, for instance, that because citizens who drank alcohol rather than water were less likely to fall ill, “most of the world’s population today is made up of descendants of those early beer drinkers, and we have largely inherited their tolerance for alcohol.” ?
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Many of the commentators on collapse live lives of affluence and spend their time in air-conditioned buildings or travelling in air-conditioned vehicles.
It will be interesting to see how they cope when the grid goes down and the wet bulb temperature goes up, and when they don’t have fuel for internal combustion engines.
Like so many other aspects of humans existence, the culture of deliberately producing alcohol for consumption has been pushed back and now corresponds with the earliest manufacture of clay vessels, maybe 18,000 years ago. I’m sure what we have now is a mere shadow of the great times of the past, ‘wine, women and song’ (and dance) and all that.
Life amongst the zombies can be awfully tedious at times but this evening I managed to open the eyes of two more people.
.
. .
.
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Since James Town, violence has been ubiquitous right up to the present day in America and that won’t change. Hagens may know a lot of Wall St and ivy league people, but there is a whole different species out there. Just the fact that Tea Baggers, Soldiers of Christ, etc, etc, exist is reason enough to arm yourself. When TSHTF those people will make a power grab. It just happened in Ukraine.
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“Hanson’s discussion group concerning the video:”
Is this a closed group or forum? You’ve not provided a link and I’ve been unable to find it.
Thanks
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https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/america2point0
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Thought so…thanks. I appreciate your posting such comments you feel are relevant…esp those by Hagens.
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Anger, Disbelief as Obama Defends US Invasion of Iraq
‘In order to not appear hypocritical, Obama rewrites history around Iraq War while denouncing Russia’
Excerpts…
President Barack Obama delivers a speech Palais des Beaux-Arts (BOZAR) in Brussels. (Reuters)President Obama is on the receiving end of scorn for remarks made during a high-profile speech in Brussels on Wednesday in which he defended the U.S. invasion of Iraq in an attempt to chastise Russia for recent developments in Crimea and Ukraine.
Speaking to the international community about the ongoing crisis in Ukraine and fending off repeated accusations that the U.S. has lost its moral authority given the invasion of Iraq and other breaches of international law in recent years, Obama said:
But instead of tamping down accusations of hypocrisy, Obama inflamed it.
Responding to the speech on FireDogLake, DSWright shot back: “Worked within the international system? So if Russia had gone to the UN to get a resolution, failed, then annexed Crimea it would have been OK?”
Reaction on Twitter was swift—and among those with a seemingly better memory of the devastation caused by the U.S. invasion of Iraq than the president—fierce:
…
Ross Caputi and Matt Howard, members of the Iraq Veterans Against the War, spoke with Common Dreams by phone and said that President Obama’s argument was both weak factually and morally. As it happens, both IVAW members were together in Washington, DC on Wednesday, organizing an evening event focused on the devastating impacts of the Iraq War—both for veterans like themselves and the Iraqi civilian population—when they heard news about what the president had said.
“What President Obama said is false,” said Caputi. “The U.S. did not attempt to work within the international system. We acted unilaterally, without the approval of the UN Security Council.”
Howard said the president’s narrative on the events that led up to the Iraq invasion, inside or outside the context of Ukraine, was simply “not grounded in reality.”
“We went from one lie, which was weapons of mass destruction, to another lie which was liberation and freedom,” said Howard. Citing the devastation cited by Iraqi civil society allies, especially women in the country, he continued, “This idea that Iraq is somehow better off or that the U.S. waged a so-called ‘Good War’ is ridiculous.”
In addition, argued Caputi, the U.S. did make very real and successful attempts to gain access to Iraqi resources, namely through the writing of the new Iraqi Constitution and aspects of the so-called “Bremer Orders,” referring to Paul Bremer who was the U.S.-appointed Administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority of Iraq during the aftermath of the 2003 invasion. Those efforts “privatived Iraq’s formally nationalized energy resources,” paving the way for foreign oil companies, including those from U.S., to gain coveted access to Iraq oil and gas fields.
The Huffington Post‘s Ryan Grim also made note of this false assertion by Obama regarding Iraqi “resources,” writing:
Watch the president’s full speech:
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ulvfugl.
You assert that the universe is not finite, yet it behaves as though it is. I refer you to the ‘echo’ of the Big Bang. I will feely admit that I have not spent much time on astrophysics lately; other matters have been a lot more pressing, so correct me if I am wrong; the background radiation left over from the Big Bang is visible whatever the direction a radio-telescope is pointed, i.e. everywhere and at the same intensity.
Now if the universe were infinite and not a closed system, as you suggest, that energy would dissipate outwards infinitely at the speed of light and would no longer be detectable (after 14 billion years of radiating from the centre at approximately 3 x 10 power 6 metres per second, whereas if the universe is finite (or warped in on itself) that energy remains trapped in the system, falling in temperature as the universe expands. Certainly, pointing a radio-telescope towards the centre of the explosion would result in a higher reading than pointing the telescope towards the periphery.
That takes us into the debate about whether the universe will continue to expand forever or whether gravity will eventually dominate and all the kinetic energy of fast-moving galaxies will eventually be converted into potential energy and cause an implosion and a reverse of the big bang. The answer to that depends on the quantity of dark matter, and nobody knows the answer to that (and perhaps never will).
I see all these objections you make about the physical sciences and biological sciences as red herrings when we are facing collapse from well documented causes.
Whilst you scathe us for believing in hard science you offer no credible alternative. For instance I checked out the Robert Saplosky stuff you referred to and found nothing I had not previously encountered (several years ago) and nothing that conflicts with basic gene theory or common sense.
You seem to hold onto your beliefs with an almost religious fervour, whereas I am very willing to drop mine the moment there is credible evidence they are wrong.
Instead of constantly telling us you are tired of arguing show us the evidence…. and for me that does not mean a video about meditation..
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LOL. Yes, show us proof as Garrett has. But he won’t, because he has no proof or anything else to hold up to the sun except for some vague mystery that dissipates in the wind like a fart.
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@ kevin
You assert that the universe is not finite, yet it behaves as though it is. etc
I do nothing of the sort, kevin. I follow what the people who are at the cutting edge say.
You insult me by suggesting I just make up shit without anything to back it up. If you were making a case, you’d have the references and citations, you know that perfectly well, as I do to. Am I going to provide them for you. No ! Find them yourself. If leading astrophysicists and cosmologists say that the Universe is infinite I’m taking their word over yours any day, because your comment shows you have absolutely no idea what I have been talking about.
Yes, I know you are busy. If you think that there’s no conflict between Sapolsky and Dawkins you obviously don’t understand either one or the other.
@ mike
Insult me if you wish, but where does that get you ? You just demonstrate your ignorance, that you are completely out of your depth.
Show you proof ?
Look, if you want to use that stuff as propaganda, then fine. If you want to use Paul Chefurka’s work as propaganda, then fine.
(By the way, perhaps Paul might like to publish a full disclaimer re his personal position ?)
Personally, I’m not above using propaganda, because I see the internet as a war zone, and our side loses, because governments and corporations control the media.
But, when it comes right down to it, and matters of personal integrity, honesty and truth, I speak from my heart, and I’m not selling propaganda.
We’re all going to die anyway. I’m trying to analyse the exact nature of the ‘thing’ that we are destroying, ‘life on Earth’. That sort of model is ‘not it’. It’s mechanistic, materialistic, outdated.
I’m sorry that you don’t understand enough about the quantum physics, etc, to see how that is relevant. I’m sorry that you are stuck in outmoded obsolete ways of thinking.
Don’t think that there is anything I can do about it.
You call it a vague mystery ? You are talking about the highest achievement that science has attained, the fucking crown jewels, the pinnacle, the glory of the whole effing project.
It’s not MY FAULT that you are so clueless, mike.
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Nothing but hot air and a waste of time reading this drivel.
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Well, pardon me, for polluting your blog, mike, but do you agree with kevin that Dawkins hard genetic determinism, is compatible with Sapolsky’s ‘forget about the genes. it’s all culture’, and that both are just common sense ?
And if not, then there’d be a case to argue ?
kevin obviously doesn’t SEE any problem there between those two positions, just as YOU don’t see any problem with YOUR position, and think I’m just making a fuss about nothing.
The thing is that I see something that you don’t see, and there’s nothing I can do about that, you’ll just have to learn about it in your own way in your own time.
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ulvfugl,
Go learn basic etiquette and manners. Before you jump into a message board and call someone’s hard work “a crock of shit” without actually reading the post, get your facts straight and come up with a counter to what was presented; otherwise, keep your mouth shut and don’t try to take center stage, wasting people’s time. Stop shitting on the message boards.
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When did I call someone’s hard work a crock of shit ? Read my comment. My view is that if you are going to analyse the Earth system, ecosystems, then treating them as if they are machines, is not the way to do it. An analysis base on thermodyamics, that treats natural systems as if they are 19th C steam engines, or does cost-benefit accounting economics, all that sort of approach, which is how scientists has been looking at nature for the last couple of centuries is what I meant by a crock of shit.
Same goes for treating human bodies as if they are machines or as if they are corpses.
Bud Nye has just been making a similar related point re the criticism directed towards Mcpherson. Perhaps if you stop being so defensive and think about what I’m saying you might learn something.
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This entire post is Garrett’s analysis of mankind’s economic system and how money, a completely fabricated construct, relates to energy gradients in the real world. Would you not agree that all living organisms, including people and complex social systems, require energy to function and live?
If you can’t explain how any of this is incorrect, then there is no need for further comment.
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Looking at the world in a Newtonian way still works for large objects, like the Earth. And isn’t the Earth what this blog is all about?
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A year or two ago, I would have agreed with you, Ken. But it’s now apparent that quantum effects are widespread at the macro level in warm wet environments.
So we are not talking about the Earth as some mechanical material system in the way that engineers are accustomed to do, and thinking of it in terms of energy gradients, as if it was a 19th C steam engine.
My, erm, suggestion is to think of it as a system that maintains balance by information feedback loops, at all levels, from bacteria to DNA to fungi to geology to mammals, everywhere, and that this is how life has been maintained for 4 billion years.
Quantum effects are involved with photosynthesis, and hence with CO2 and climate.
But there is a massive obstacle here. Traditionally all science requires separation of observer and observed. That position is no longer tenable. There is no division.
When you observe ‘reality’ it’s not what you think it is. We have to revise the whole paradigm.
Insulting me isn’t going to fix that problem. The ‘thing’ you are observing is the ‘thing’ doing the observing. Nobody knows how to deal with this paradox, but it’s not going away.
You people trying to apply the old materialist, mechanistic ideas of classical physics, pretending nothing has happened, look quite ridiculous to me.
I think the only place where we agree is that this makes no difference to our general fate, although it may have some bearing upon the reasons.
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I believe that the conceptual models behind the thinking are fundamentally incorrect and obsolete.
If you are going to do a rigorous analysis of what’s really going on, then it should begin with the most accurate scientific understanding that we have available to us.
But by all means use Garrett’s arguments. Why not ? The people who they are aimed at are far too ignorant to understand any of it anyway, let alone have a clue what I am talking about.
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You still don’t answer the question.
You say you “believe that the conceptual models behind the thinking are fundamentally incorrect and obsolete.”
Then you have to say how and why it’s wrong. If you can’t do that, then stop talking.
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Of course I can do that ! I’m thinking and writing about this stuff all day every day, ffs.
I already said I think this format is hopeless for discussing such complex and very difficult subjects, and your insults and hostility is not conducive to me making any effort.
You’re telling me to Shut Up !
Fuck you too !
Okay. 🙂
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Goodbye, you foul creature.
By the way, this is how you slithered into the forum:
“Hahaha, but I’m ulvfugl, and I DO take issue with your comments and I say it’s bullshit.
I’ve been doing a lot of hard digging into this stuff.
It’s called ‘life’. You try and find a satisfactory definition of it from the physicists, the chemists, the biologists. They are ALL full of bullshit.
Laws of thermodyamics are bullshit too. They are 19thC mechanistic claptrap based on measuring the flow of heat, and Maxwell’s equations, blahblahblah.”
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ulvfugl says: “…this format is hopeless for discussing such complex and very difficult subjects…”
It’s only a hopeless format for you because you can’t answer pointed questions concerning this post. Go write your thesis and get it published. Don’t let the swinging exit doors hit you on the way out.
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“perhaps Paul might like to publish a full disclaimer re his personal position ?”
To what end? I don’t care what people think about my personal position. Whether someone else accepts it, rejects it, finds it intriguing or scurrilous makes no damn difference to me. I’m not looking for mindshare, status, some leadership role, or to paint myself as some sort of quasi-academic like Rod Swenson. I’ve got my own life to live. That’s quite enough.
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Okay, if you don’t believe that your personal position has any bearing upon your views then I suppose it makes no difference whether you disclose your status and employment or not does it.
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http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2014/03/28/100-recent-earthquakes-1reported-in-swarm-near-volcano-mt-hood/
GOVERNMENT CAMP, Ore. (KOIN) — Mount Hood has seen nearly 100 earthquakes in the past few days, but a local seismologist said they are nothing to worry about. Geologists said most of the recent earthquakes have been small with only 30 actually being large enough to tell where they occurred. Researchers said these earthquake swarms happen several times a year and are nothing to worry about. “I wouldn’t say be worried but maybe expect to feel an earthquake. It’s always interesting to feel an earthquake next to a volcano. These swarms in the past have produced earthquakes that were felt at Government Camp,” said Seth Moran, a seismologist at USGS Cascades Volcano Observatory. According to Moran, the quakes are not being caused by magma in the volcano moving, but instead by the tectonic plates shifting. Mount Hood last erupted in 1790. -Koin
and
http://dutchsinse.tatoott1009.com/3282014-5-4m-earthquake-strikes-los-angeles-california-volcanic-earthquakes-were-precursor/
In the late PM hours on March 28 2014 , a 5.4M earthquake struck Los Angeles, California. Also several subsequent mid 3.0M aftershock events have occurred in the same location.
Over the past several days, I’ve been warning for this Southern California earthquake movement to occur.
Showing recently (over the past 2 days) as earthquake activity BUILDUP occurring at dormant volcanic chambers in South Central California.
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lost me as soon as you approached anything algebraic, or whatever that was……………
however, the thrust of the piece seemed reasonable. energy input equals growth, exponential or otherwise, no matter how you slice and dice it.
but wait! there’s more!!! you also get a destroyed environment!!!!!!
that’s right you just pay shipping and handling!!!!!!!!!!!! and we’ll also send you on an all expense paid vacation to beautiful Chernobyl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! site of the most famous nuclear accident in all of history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that’s right Bob!!! so act now now!! don’t miss out on this one time TV offer!!!!!!!!!!!!
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most of what you guys talk about is way over my head, no degrees here, other than degrees of ignorance. 😉
however, if the universe is finite, then what about outside of the universe? what is there?
i cannot fathom something which goes on forever, i.e. infinity.
like wise, if we observe something 14 light years away, and it is retreating at near light speed, and it took 14 light years for the light to reach us, is the object now 28 light years away?
perhaps we do not understand the nature of nothingness, perhaps nothingness has no nature; consider, if you had the tiniest little speck of nothing, and you could put yourself down into that little tiniest speck, you would, in effect, be in infinite space.
or is that just too easy?
maybe the question of infinity is irrelevant, perhaps the behavior of mass is the question.
and before i come up for air, seeing as how i am out of my depth, there is a book “Open Sky” by one Paul Virilio,
http://www.versobooks.com/books/639-open-sky
in which he uses terms such as “time matter”, wherein I am not sure even he realized where his thoughts took him.
here’s a bit of theorizing for you, suppose there is no time, simply an eternal moment, no past, no future, simply the present, and what we perceive as time is merely a human conceit/concept. the dark matter everyone is wondering about, it’s time, a form of particle/wave which we cannot measure, cannot perceive, traveling at or beyond the speed of light.
just suppose, 90% of what we believe about physics is true, but 10% is false, but that 10% casts a completely different light on what we think we know.
if there is something as yet undiscovered or misunderstood concerning the nature of the cosmos all of our measurements could be off by orders of magnitude, and the universe could be a lot smaller than we yet realize.
and yes, i believe the universe is finite, i believe there is an outer darkness which is so far beyond our ken that we are unable to even imagine it. we are physical beings, that is what we relate to, absence to us is unimaginable
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No excuses, world class lectures FREE
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yeah, he wrote equations on the board, he talked about time and velocity, like i would understand any of it. not my point, i don’t know any of you, but i see some contention about a model of economics as related to energy consumption, truthfully, it’s all terribly arcane, and doesn’t relate to the man on the street.
i looked at the guys essay and thought, ok, i will take this under consideration, makes some sense, file it, remember some of it, throw out what you want.
but no, it gets into all of these competing equations.
i’ve read some physics books written for lay people that’s about it, but i have a question, what transmits gravity? not what it does, how does it do it? we know about electrons, protons, neutrons, muons, gluons, and now the “god particle”.
is there a gravity particle? is there a time particle? is modern physics looking at it all wrong? especially when the workings of gravity are so easily glossed over.
i’m serious, we know gravity is related to electricity, we know what transmits electricity, what transmits gravity?
my question is, if we don’t know what transmits gravity, at what point does what this guy is talking about become meaningless?
in a gravity well is not space/time distorted? how do we measure distance or time except by fixed reference points, what if the reference is constantly shifting?
so you see, all while these scientists are using these models there terms they are using, and forces which affect their scenarios which are themselves not yet fully understood.
light years, the fabric of space time, dependent upon a lot of variables.
one thing is for sure, the species is pretty much stuck on this rock, in space.
what we see happening to the planet is what happens when the pictures people have in their heads do not mesh with the physical realities of nature. nature has no names, nature just is, nature doesn’t care what labels we put on whatever. i have had this discussion with professorial types, it’s hard to grasp that just because your models work out within the very system you have created that doesn’t mean that’s all there is to it.
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The short answer is that gravity is such an incredibly weak force it was damned hard to detect and measure properly, let alone characterise (though I could explain the experiment which first measured it -look it up; torsion of a wire and balls.). Rub a plastic comb and you can pick up bits of paper against the pull of the entire Earth.
Strong forces: those that bond protons and neutrons together in nuclei; those that bond atoms together to form molecules; electrostatic forces (a form of the formerly stated, due to imbalance of protons and electrons); magnetism (due to alignment and pairing of electrons)……….
None of it matters when we are faced with economic meltdown, climate meltdown etc. though in the past all those forces all played their part in making the Earth habitable for humans (or better, we evolved to take advantage of the conditions provided by those factors) .
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The video was an interesting revision course for what I learned long ago. Whether further videos in the series offer any new insights is yet to be determined. I’m not sure that I have time to plough through it all, or whether there is any value in doing so. Other matters are far more pressing.
Despite the interest from the point of view of mind exercises, this stuff has no relevance to the essay or the present state of the world.
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thank you for replying,
when the military tested my IQ i came out as an expected above average.
what interests me is the foundation of things, what lies beneath. my mind is not geared toward science, i flunked Albebra II, twice. so i readily admit my limitations.
now, reading? the humanities? i love it, dystopian, utopian, politics, i’m all over it.
still, i’m fascinated by the questions concerning the nature of the universe, the thought problem of whether there can be an infinity, whether time really exists, or if as i said, an eternal, wherein everything shifts, and we are reading it all wrong.
nothingness, now there’s a concept, the absence of anything, can such a state exist?
but i disagree, i think mind exercises have everything to do with our discussion, as these assumptions we accept so implicitly are what derives our world-view. perhaps if humankind was just that little bit humble before things we cannot explain we would treat our environment a bit more gingerly.
mechanistic or holistic, still just a mind frame which insists there must be an answer.
my answer is burgers grilled over pecan wood and natural mesquite charcoal.
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In my opinion mind exercises about the nature of sociopaths and strategies to deal with them have more value that debating the shape or extent of the universe.
If you watched the video to the end you will have heard the lecturer declare that he could win a bet on the universe being finite or a bet on the universe being infinite because we will never know. In his opinion the universe extends ten times further than we will ever be able to measure..
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“.. other than degrees of ignorance.” I’m always bragging about my Ph.D. lol
This brings to mind my favorite bumper sticker. ” If your so damn smart why aren’t you rich.” The first time I saw it,I took it personally.
From Daniels Quinn’s book,”Ishmael”, he states that man’s always been able to fly.He just didn’t know the Laws of Aerodynamics.
I guess we got past that ignorance.
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ulvfugl.
You constantly berate other people for not understanding concepts at ‘your level’.
Let me point out that I studied quantum theory at university, and have taught quantum effects. That does not make me a world-acclaimed expert but does indicate I have a reasonably good understanding, arguably ranking in the top 0.01% of the populace.
Now according to your view of the world, to have studied quantum mechanics at university and taught quantum effect automatically disqualifies me from understanding it because anything at all connected with mainstream is ‘a crock of shit’..
The insults come thick and fast.. I can stoop to your level of insults. In fact, until you present a coherent argument, I’d say you are so full of shit you don’t; even recognise you are full of shit.
I suppose it is the last resort of the deluded as they dance completely out of time to the music to declare that that the London Symphony Orchestra has got the beat wrong and all the professional dancers are deaf incompetent fools.
Arrogance and delusions are common partners.
We are well aware that there have been numerous instances of individuals challenging the accepted doctrine of the times and being proven correct; we quote them. What distinguishes those individuals is that they generated comprehensive and cohesive arguments which could be tested. You NEVER do this, but simply declare that the forum or the format is unsuitable as a means of presenting your level of understanding.
The really odd thing is that other people can present coherent and testable arguments using this kind of forum.
Front up with the ‘cutting edge’ or shut up. (By the way, for several years I taught high-level English to Asian students using as book series called ‘Cutting Edge’ which contained numerous errors).
I realise this was aimed at Mike:
‘I’m sorry that you don’t understand enough about the quantum physics, etc, to see how that is relevant. I’m sorry that you are stuck in outmoded obsolete ways of thinking.’
and:
‘It’s not MY FAULT that you are so clueless, mike.’
Mike and I do not always see eye to eye ( I am certain 9/11 was an inside job; Mike seems to think otherwise), and he sometimes misunderstands my meaning (perhaps my fault for not being more precise) but we can discuss matter civilly.
To describe Mike as clueless just makes you laughable.
Had enough? Or would you like to try another round in the ring?
Like Mike, I’d prefer you retire until you have something useful to contribute , as I have better things to do than argue with you. However I will not allow misinformation or bullying to pass unchallenged; challenging bullshit and bullying has become my forte, I’m afraid.
As I said to someone a few days ago: “I do make mistakes. Being right 90% of the time is bad enough. Think how awful it would be if I were right 100% of the time.”
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There’s no helping him. He jumps into forums and shits all over everyone, then expects respect. ???
Sorry, but I don’t have the time to waste on such an uncouth heathen. The bad outweighs the good.
Adios ulvfugl.
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“I do make mistakes. Being right 90% of the time is bad enough. Think how awful it would be if I were right 100% of the time.”
How’s the saying go: “Now that’s funny.I don’t care who you are.”
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I have a year’s worth of history with him on this topic. You made the right decision.
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For me, one of the most important aspects that cannot be overemphasised is that governments continuously lie about practically everything..
Inflation figures are fabricated and manipulated, and GDP figures are fabricated and manipulated, so although Tim Garret’s methodology was sound, the data he worked with was not. Chris Martensen devoted several chapters of ‘Crash Course’ to exposing the lies governments tell connected with economic data.
http://www.peakprosperity.com/crashcourse
And while we are on the subject of government lies, I have raised the matter of the lies told by the US government about 9/11 (and the repetition of those lies by other governments) with several people lately. Concrete and steel buildings do not collapse at near free-fall speed as a consequence of short-lived low-temperature fires, and titanium alloy engines do not evaporate on impact with concrete or grass. The evidence is irrefutable: (and you don’t need any formal education or qualifications to understand the lies).
. .
With Obama and Kerry etc. now lying about Ukraine in order to provoke conflict we should all be very concerned.
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http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-uncertain-gene-10.html
The Uncertain Gene – 10
[selected quote]
To end or suspend this series on a good note, today I am focusing on a post from the Small Things Considered blog (STCB), which focuses on a particular molecular machine mentioned in the journal NATURE VOL. 386, page 299, “Letters To Nature” (March 1997), and in other places.
STCB and other blogs call the ancient dynamo, which existed billions of years before human evolution began, a “molecular dynamo.”
They then go on to point out that we humans made our very first and much more primitive dynamo billions of years later:
The dynamo was invented in the early 19th century as a device to convert the mechanical movement of magnets—preferably by turning a crank—into electric current. Using the same machine some 25 years later people found that electric current can drive mechanical movement, and the electric motor was born.
(Small Things Considered – “The Dynamo at Work”). In “The Tiniest Scientists Are Very Old” it was noted that ancient microbes used quantum mechanical principles to do work with molecular machines.
What is interesting, comparing the way the rotor on the dynamo works, with proton tunneling (The Uncertain Gene), is that a less random and seemingly more stable technique of proton translocation is used in this molecular dynamo:
Rotation of the c ring is driven by the proton gradient across the membrane. The existence of such a gradient was first postulated as the ‘chemiosmotic hypothesis’ by Peter Mitchell in 1961 and was highly controversial at that time. Protons pass through a narrow canal formed by two neighboring c subunits and the α subunit of the Fo particle (see figure 3). This proton transport is known to involve the D61 residues of the juxtaposed c subunits and R210 of the α subunit (in E. coli). The ‘handover’ of a proton between two c subunits leads to small incremental movements of the c ring with respect to the a subunit, i.e. rotation of the c ring within the membrane, with the a subunit representing the stator. When during (aerobic) respiration the cytoplasm of the cell is depleted of protons, a proton gradient is established that allows protons to flow ‘downhill’ back into the cytoplasm through the Fo canal. This flow sets the c ring in motion, which in turn lets the F1 γ subunit rotate. The rotating F1 γ subunit then induces the conformational alterations in the β subunits of the α3β3, that are necessary to synthesize ATP from ADP and Pi. We can calculate that it takes—depending on the c subunit stoichiometry in the c ring—between 4 and 6 protons to synthesize 1 ATP.
(ibid, “The Dynamo at Work”, emphasis added). This particular use of protons in this case of a molecular dynamo is “planned” or “controlled” rather than being the result of unplanned, random action, unlike the proton tunneling mentioned in the first post of this series (ibid, “The Uncertain Gene”).
Both uses of protons took place during ancient abiotic evolution, specifically during abiotic genetic evolution / mutation in the case of RNA / DNA replication (ibid, “The Uncertain Gene”).
This sophisticated proton-energy based molecular machinery adds support to the notion that the viral realm is a viable place to look for the original transition from pre-carbon entities into carbon based “life” forms:
The virus realm may be the bridge from the molecular machine realm into the biological realm, the bridge from the abiotic evolutionary realm into the biotic evolutionary realm.
(The Uncertain Gene – 9). In fact, the viral realm has been described as a realm of molecular machines:
One of the principal goals in biology is to be able to fully understand the mechanisms of an organism in atomic detail. Viruses offer the best opportunities to achieve this goal. Written by leaders in the respective fields, this book examines a variety of viral molecular machines, using the best examples from bacteriophages and animal viruses, many causing infectious diseases of public health importance. Beginning with the viral entry into a host cell, the book takes the reader through replication of the genome, assembly of structural components, genome packaging and maturation into an infectious virion. The book conveys the state of the art knowledge of the topic generated by combining X-ray crystallography, high resolution electron microscopy, molecular genetics, biochemistry, and single molecule biophysics. Viral Molecular Machines is not only a “must-have” book for virologists but it will also be broadly useful for molecular biologists in academia and industry as well as an educational tool for teaching graduate and upper level undergraduate students.
(Viral Molecular Machines, emphasis added). While I do not dispute or criticize that observation at the macro level, I do criticize the study of viruses and microbes when it is done as if they evolved in a vacuum devoid of any experience of catastrophe on this planet on in the Cosmos (e.g. The Evolution of Anthropogenic Extinction by Catastrophe, On The Origin of Catastrophe).
[Dredd has a series of articles on this and many other subjects; there’s a little more on this one than was quoted – check it out]
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Humans are degrading everything and they evolve tools continuously to attack any as yet unused gradients. This all may be part of the quantum magical universe but so are bacterial cultures that end-up in an autoclave after depleting their seemingly endless supply of nutrients. The ways in which we can channel our temporary surfeit of energy seems to be unlimited and because of the profit motive, the desire to pass as much energy through your “factory” as quickly as possible so that you may skim a few percent more than the next misguided ape. And now the dumbshits want to expand into space, because there’s not enough to eat on earth. When it’s all done and over, they won’t look back and say, “Oh, look what we’ve done.” No. They will simply be dead after a short period of confusion, panic and chaos.
In order to accelerate my own good fortunes, I will speaking with some Manhattan investment bankers concerning financial arrangements. I’ve decided to start a new breakfast line called “ToasterJesus”, a pop-up waffle in the likeness of Jesus. Of course we will not qualify for junk bonds and will be floating a large issue of “You Can’t Take It With You Bonds” with the Hail Mary and The Lord’s Prayer printed on both sides for daily recitation should investors ever lose faith in return of capital.
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Make them with the syrup already inside so when you pierce them with a fork, dark red high fructose corn syrup comes oozing out. Lordy, Lordy I luvs me some waffles.
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It may look like off topic, but I think that if we want to challenge and change the existing erroneous paradigm that unlimited growth on a finite planet is no problem at all, we should be careful to not make obvious errors ourselves.
At the start of the article it is described that the human brain uses about 24 W, which subsequently is converted into 2400 calories per day: grave error.
First it means comparing apples and pears. The Watt is a unit of power and the calorie is a unit of energy. One Watt equals one Joule per second. One calorie (a short calorie, written with a lower-case “c”) equals 4.2 Joules.
So if you want to convert Watts to calories, first it should be calories per second, and second you have to divide the Watts by 4.2. So, 24 Watts equals 5.71 calories per second. Now, a day has (24 x 60 x 60 =) 86,400 seconds. So to arive at the amount of calories a human brain uses per day, you have to multiply 5.71 calories with 86,400 seconds: 494,000 calories per day. Now this looks like an exagerated amount of calories: aren’t we supposed to eat something like 2000 calories per day?
This is because there are two kinds of calories: The short calorie (as I described above) and the long Calorie (written with a capital “C”), also called the Food Calorie. One Calorie equals 1000 calories.So, 494,000 calories equals 494 Calories.
Conclusion: The human brain does not consume 2400 calories per day, but (rounded off) 500 Calories.
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Good catch! I’ll buy that. I inadvertently put the total needs of the entire body (2400 Calories).
“The brain consumes about 20% of our daily intake of calories. That’s about 400-500 calories for a man and 350-400 for a woman.”
So I fixed it in the essay.
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Hey XrayMike, that’s sympathetic, I appreciate that.
Say, I don’t know where to submit an article for publication on this blog. Could you help me out?
It’s about calculating the peaks of global petroleum and natural gas production. I know there’s nothing new about that anymore, but what’s new about my calculations (for I did the math myself) is that I found an interesting proxy: carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels, publicly and freely available on the CDIAC website. CDIAC is an EIA institution of the US Department of Energy, so not some obscure source, but official US government data.
As I suppose you know, the problem with calculating peak oil has always been the secrecy of production data, so hard to get a reliable data set together. Using the CO2 emission data of CDIAC, turned out to be a very useful proxy and the big advantage is that anyone with a bit of math skills is able to reproduce my calculations. So,it offers transparency in these mysterious peak oil calculations.
So this is what my article will be about: explaining step by step how to do your own peak oil calculations, and present the results.
So if you think it’s worthwhile, please help me out and forward my suggestion to the right person(s). By the way, for direct correspondence, here is my email:
hans.ut.fryslan@gmail.com
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I will send you an invitation to be an author here. After you accept it, then you can log in and create blog posts.
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Okay, excellent. I’ll wait for the invitation.
Best regards,
Hans Zandvliet
La Paz, Bolivia, South America
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Got the invitation, accepted it and had a quick look around in WordPress.com.
However, at the moment I’m too busy designing a drinking water system for an Altiplano village, so it make take a week or to before I submit the article.
But don’t worry, you’ll see it coming.
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Sure thing! Sounds like what you are doing at the moment is much more important.
It would be good if I took a break anyway until your article comes out.
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Indeed so, and not off topic at all.. (I spotted that odd mixture of units but didn’t bother to follow it up.)
Then comes to obvious observation that an active brain uses more energy than an inactive one. So being a ‘zombie’ and rarely thinking could be regarded as a positive adaptation if we wanted to go down that road.
Going down the rabbit hole even further, we find that the type of ‘Calories’ consumed very much affects their metabolic usefulness. In particular, the digestive system needs to expend energy breaking down complex molecules such as starch in order to release smaller molecules such as glucose which can be absorbed through the villi and transported to the liver and cells of the body to be used to generate ATP alluded to in the item posted by Tom.
We then have theoretical food as opposed to real food. There has been considerable debate concerning fructose versus glucose, with many experts pointing out that cell biochemistry is geared to processing glucose, and that a different metabolic pathways is required to process fructose. Indeed, some go as far as to say that fructose becomes poisonous when ingested in large quantities. And guess what many industrially-produced syrups contain large amounts of!. We were told that butter was bad for us because it contained saturated fatty acid molecules, and polyunsaturated molecules in margarine were much better for u: then someone comes along as says that’s all wrong and butter is better, which the advertising agencies kept telling us 20 years ago.
Using Newtons, metres, Joules and Watts all the time makes life so much easier and reduces the food input required to operate the brain.
. .
)
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Sometimes I’ll burn 50 calories standing in front of the fridge with the door open trying to decide what to eat.
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Is that including or not including the expenditure of the light bulb?
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Excerpt from Freedom by Johnathon Franzen…
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Reblogged this on Gaia will prevail.
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