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6th Mass Extinction, Albert Einstein, Bishnois, Buddhism, Cartesian Worldview, Christianity, Climate Tipping Points, Collapse of Industrial Civilization, Corporate State, Cosmology, Cultural Stories, Daniel A. Drumright, Descartes, Eco-Apocalypse, Ecological Overshoot, Environmental Collapse, Extinction of Man, Fascist Dystopia, Financial Elite, Gautama, Guy McPherson, Heathcote Williams, Humanism, Iain McGilchrist, Joseph Campbell, Joseph Tainter, Mass Die Off, Materialism, Military Industrial Complex, Mythos and Logos, Nature Bats Last, Near-Term Extinction, Quantum Physics, Religion, Security and Surveillance State, Spiritualism, The Divine Order
Author: ulvfugl
Those who have read my thoughts, sprinkled hither and thither around the internet, will perhaps be aware that I gave up, about one and a half years ago, when I realised that whatever mighty efforts activists might make, it was going to be impossible to save the biosphere. Daniel Drumright was about three months ahead of me.
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/near-term-extinctionists-believe-the-world-is-going-to-end-very-soon
Nobody who hasn’t fully encountered and absorbed that experience for themselves, in its true horror, has any idea what it really means, and for those who have yet to face it, you have my deepest compassion and sympathy.
There’s no point in going over the technical reasoning in detail. People either get it or they don’t. They can find all the information quite easily.
There are three big, obvious factors that most people do not understand; those are, first, the irreversible self-reinforcing positive feedbacks that Guy McPherson is listing, and second, the time lag, that what we have now is the result of what we did forty or so years ago, and what we get in the future will be the effects of what we have been doing ever since. The third is the astounding rate at which all the changes are happening, when compared with all previous similar or comparable events in Earth’s history. Whatever it is, it is ULTRA DRAMATIC on the geological time scale.
http://guymcpherson.com/2013/01/climate-change-summary-and-update/
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Climate-Change-The-40-Year-Delay-Between-Cause-and-Effect.html
The doom scenario has been, and is being, comprehensively documented by xraymike on this blog. The trickle of folk who are going through the process of coming to terms with this hellish awakening has already grown into a cascade and will soon be millions, and I really have nothing to say to them, because I do not know what to say to them.
Once you get the insight regarding the Mass Extinction Event, it’s a bit like the Buddha’s Enlightenment Experience under the Bodhi Tree, only in reverse, so to speak.
Gautama pondered whether to keep his insight to himself and spend the rest of his days in bliss, or whether to teach others what he now knew, and he chose, out of compassion, to spend the remainder of his life wandering through India teaching his message.
But how do you teach how to cope with doom ? There’s nothing optimistic or pleasing or life-enhancing or joyful about imminent apocalypse. There’s just the anguish and distress involved with the demanding process of navigating your own psychology and emotional responses toward an impossible future.
Each individual IS an individual, as we see on NBL, with their own version of the mixture of belief and disbelief and their own political and philosophical and religious outlooks, and some have children and grandchildren and some are thinking of survival chances, some of suicide, some of resistance, and so on.
I have had more than a year to dwell upon my own position, and to watch the responses in my own being, and in the people whom I like and respect, and the voices I admire, who also grasp the profound and terrible tragedy facing us all. For a long time, there was commiseration, but then what ? Commiseration fatigue ? How can anyone commiserate with anonymous thousands, let alone millions ?
Again, there’s lots of speculation as to the detail of how the crash will play out and how societies will respond as they collapse. I’m not going to add much to that here, it’s all available elsewhere. We either get a die back, and a bottle neck, with a few survivors, or a complete die off and total extinction event. I think we get the latter, but even if it is the former, none of us are going to know any of those people, as to who they will be, or where or what becomes of them, so why does it matter ? And why would anyone choose to have to live through whatever horrendous circumstances they will have to endure, following the trauma of the ending of civilisation ? Perhaps some people will just happen to find themselves in such a situation. Who knows ?
Meanwhile, here we are. Peak just about everything, where we start the big slide down into the abysmal depths of whatever awaits us all… the biggest crisis that the human species has ever faced, 7 point something billion of us, with millions more arriving here every month. There is no discernible global leadership of any kind that comprehends our dire situation, only madmen and corruption and people locked in to dead cultural paradigms.
What does a dead cultural paradigm look like ?
Well, we’ve got Joseph Tainter to give us some clues from the historical record and maybe Heathcote Williams to bring us up to date with the contemporary scene
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Tainter
From what I understand of history, we can expect a hard swing toward fascist dystopia, as regimes try desperately to exert total control over everything, and hard swings from repressed populations and factions which reciprocate with resistance.
The future will be whatever it will be. Every day I walk up and down the Beach of Doom and kick at pieces of poisonous plastic flotsam and miscellaneous cosmic debris left by the virtual tide, and gaze at the orange purple bruises on the tangerine sky and sometimes I bicker and haggle with someone.
Yesterday it was Lidia at NBL to whom I am grateful for an insight into something or other.
You see, people can be very roughly divided into two groups. Those who primarily hold a religious, or spiritual, or romantic, or mythical world view. And those who primarily hold a scientific, or materialist, or rationalist world view.
Of course, this is a crude over-simplification, and speaking to any individual, you’ll soon find they hold all kinds of contradictory beliefs. But roughly, it’s Mythos and Logos, or Iain McGilchrist’s Right and Left Hemispheres.
So, Lidia was kind enough to describe her worldview, her welt anschauung, her cosmology, her mental conception of how reality is structured, her epistemology, her way of ‘knowing your place in the Universe’.
I hope she will forgive my using her as an example, and the exchange several days ago was only a brief re-run of a much longer version we had on the now defunct NTE ning, some months ago, so I think I do have a fairly full idea as to her thinking, but so as not to risk any personal offence, I’ll take the illustration away from Lidia, and apply it to any generic physicist or scientist or person with a similar belief system, of whom I have met very, very many. This will allow me some poetic license possibly, avoiding danger of maligning the good Lidia, I hope.
You see, according to this paradigm of reality, there is only physics. Everything is physics.
That means that everything is explained by physics. That means no mystery, because even if there is mystery, that’s only due to physics not yet explaining it. And once mystery is killed off, it’s relatives, cousins – things like awe, wonder, sanctity, sacredness, the numinous – easily shrivel and die too.
So, that reality ‘out there’, and this reality ‘in here’, is all meaningless, because it only means something if we impose some wishful magical thinking onto the physics, which, as objective scientists, we are not allowed to do.
And that reality ‘out there’ is just ‘stuff’, and it interacts with this reality ‘in here’, the brain, which again is just ‘stuff’. It’s all physics, it’s all physical stuff, and even though we don’t understand all of it – even don’t understand most of it, or, if pressed, hardly ANY of it, hahaha – in theory, physics can, and will, explain all of it, one day, so no problem.
So, it’s quite interesting to trace back where this story, this Logos story, comes from, and it’s quite easy to do, because it’s well documented and researched, and it goes back to Descartes and his radical scepticism, and the ideas given to him by an angel (Mythos) and his struggle to find anything, something, that he could not undermine by radical doubt, and his arrival at ‘I think, therefore I am’ and then the beginnings of modern science.
Given that the Church of Rome was the dominant power in Europe at the time, an accommodation had to be made between the rising power of science and the prevailing authority, and thus we got an expedient result, the division which gave the material world to the scientists and the spiritual world to the priests. That’s why there’s no God or spirits involved in physics. Which, you may say, is an excellent thing. But let us call it, for the moment, ‘a mixed blessing’.
Because, you see, if you follow the epistemology carefully, and look at it very closely, something absolutely amazing emerges.
Einstein said that our ordinary common senses give us ‘naive realism’. That is, grass is green, rocks are hard, and snow is cold. But physics, if it is true, tells us that this naive realism is all wrong, physics tells us that the reality is quite different, something completely different is actually going on, out there and in here.
http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/einstein_russell.htm
Now, it’s all very well for someone like Einstein, or Niels Bohr, or Feynman, to come up with these ideas, as professional physicists, but what happens when this scientific worldview, this basically Cartesian worldview, is taught to us lesser mortals as part of the culture, and internalised as epistemology, and preached to us as ontology, and integrated into general social cosmology ?
This is where it gets really weird, a MOST extraordinary thing – because when I thought over what Lidia had told me, nowhere in the depiction and analysis is there anywhere for A HAPPY HEALTHY COMPLETE HUMAN BEING.
Isn’t that bizarre ? That human beings have come up with a teaching as to what the world is and what the totality of the Universe is, which does not even include the organism that WE ARE, AT ALL ?
I mean, that strikes me as exceptionally odd. Prior to Descartes, the cosmology was a sort of Divine Order, with the Heavens above and layers with angels and God at the pinnacle and so forth. And people were taught this, and their place in the social hierarchy of feudalism was essentially justified because the King was a sort of representative of God on Earth, and so on. So although we can scoff at the nonsense of it, at least at the time, if you were a peasant, you featured in the story.
If you were out in the fields with your ox and your plough and you were gazing at the distant rainbow and thinking about your dead grandfather and you heard the church bells peeling for a wedding in the village next door, all sorts of strange impressions could flicker through your mind, but basically you had a cosmology which placed God somewhere ‘up there’ and you ‘down here’ with a coherent pattern where your birth and living and death belonged with the landscape and the community and the larger reality.
Therefore, the map, the mental model ‘in here’, when projected and overlaid upon reality, had in it the human subject as its focal point, and because that’s what the human subject had been taught, a story was established featuring the ME.
But now, not only have they written God out, with Descartes and the Cartesian Paradigm of reality as the basis of modern science, but you’ve got a model, a cosmology, which has written US, as human beings, biological creatures, right out of the system altogether, as if they were not even involved !
And then people have internalised this model and taken it to be their own personal reality that they use to explain the world to themselves.
I wonder what that does for a person’s health ? I wonder what it does, when millions of people do something like that ?
The Christian Fundamentalists may be completely round the bend when it comes to LOGIC but maybe they just feel intuitively that what they are being offered by the people who argue against them, a worldview, a cosmology, which says NOTHING MEANS ANYTHING, and a worldview, a cosmology, which doesn’t have ANY PLACE where a happy healthy human, a biological human being, can even fit into it, is so sterile and horrible, that they intuitively reject it and are hostile to it ?
Because, if you look at anthropology or what Joseph Campbell said about myth, what a belief system provides for a tribal people is a safe mental refuge. When a person takes a mental excursion into fantasy and ponders the nature of their own life and identity, and the dream they had last night, and their relationships with the world around them and other folks, and the stars above and so forth, the whole purpose of the cosmology is to deliver them safely back unto THEMSELVES.
I mean, think of acid trips and ayauasca and mushrooms and vision quests and all that stuff, where you encounter visions of beings from other dimensions and the most mind-boggling experiences, the idea is to get back to start, square 1, more or less sane and intact.
The same applies to ordinary daydreams and fantasies and all our thinking about our ordinary experiences. How can we be sane and healthy, if our fundamental belief system does not even include a home base option anywhere within it ?
You know, who cares what the physics says. Primarily, we are human beings, biological animals, that cry when we are hurt and sad, and laugh when we are happy, and get sentimental about babies and kittens, and need clean water and food, etc. AND we need a meaningful Universe which has a place for US in it, with a STORY that makes sense as to why we exist…
You know, a story we can UNDERSTAND about who we are and what we are doing here.
At the moment, all these stories we are being told are crap because they are not accurate with the science, strictly speaking, since they can’t be; we can’t get any clear picture from the physicists as to the ultimate nature of all the quantum stuff and the Universe. In addition, these cultural stories are unsatisfactory at the human level when they LEAVE OUT the human being and pretend it’s all some sort of abstract empty machine.
What’s more, from what a large percentage of quantum physicists have plainly stated, you cannot leave the physicist out of the experiment because the observer EFFECTS the observation. Now, I recognize this is contentious, there is no consensus, and it’s not clear what this means. But !
So, what does a ‘good story’ look like ? Well, that’s hard… but I’m glad you asked.
I think this is a complicated and difficult problem, and here I am upon the Beach of Doom, with all of human history and culture, every idea that’s ever been recorded, washed up at my feet at the tide line, strewn and tangled and rotting and steaming…
Look at us, pitiful, confused Bonobos, asking ourselves questions we can’t answer, tearing ourselves and each other apart, trying to satisfy Maslow’s Hierarchy…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow’s_hierarchy_of_needs
Is that what we are doing ? Well, the whistle has blown, the sirens are wailing, time is up, the NTE light is flashing, so there is not going to be some utopian Promised Land for the Bonobos to migrate to…
Xraymike was kind enough to point me to the definition of the word Humanistic:
1. A believer in the principles of humanism. 2. One who is concerned with the interests and welfare of humans.
“Humanism is a group of philosophies and ethical perspectives which emphasize the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers individual thought and evidence (rationalism, empiricism) over established doctrine or faith (fideism). The term humanism can be ambiguously diverse, and there has been a persistent confusion between several related uses of the term because different intellectual movements have identified with it over time.[1] In philosophy and social science, humanism refers to a perspective that affirms some notion of a “human nature” (contrasted with anti-humanism). etc…”
So let’s take that as a verbal anchorage.
I’d suggest that most human beings have a fundamental requirement, for their psychological, physiological, and social welfare, to understand ‘the world’ in a way that makes sense. So that, whenever they sit down and think things over, and run ideas through their head, they can confirm themselves and they can confirm ‘the world’ and feel okay.
Wouldn’t that be nice ? Look what we’ve got. It’s not THAT, is it.
Is it any surprise that some people want the Rapture or Alien abduction to get the hell out of this confusion ?
The epistemology that science teaches, following on from Descartes, has caused most of the damage to the biosphere over the last century or two, because nothing is sacred, everything is just dead stuff, in a dead machine, inhabited by ghostly meaningless meat robots, zeks, without any dignity or purpose of their own.
You marry that to Capitalism, an elite with power and greed as their motive, and give it to them as a tool, and hand them control of the Military, which was once meant to guard but gets turned into a predatory plundering machine.
Well. We are where we are. The lights will go out, one by one, and then a few million years of silence as the extremophiles have peace.
It could have been, might have been, a very different story, if we had all followed the example of, say, the Bishnois.
Pingback: A Crumbling Cultural Story in a Period of Near-Term Extinction
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Thanks for putting this up xray !
I should have defined what I meant by worldview, there’s several interpretations, google gives mainly Christian slanted definitions. Here’s the one I favour myself.
One’s worldview,[1] also world-view or world view, is the foundation upon which all one’s beliefs and actions are based. It is the opinions and conclusions derived from a set of premises which are, by and large, unshakeable.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Worldview
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And a definition of “cultural stories”:
…Culture is the system of beliefs, values, perceptions, and social relations that encodes the shared learning of a particular human group essential to individual survival and orderly social function. It serves as the interpretive lens through which the human brain processes the massive flow of data from our senses to distinguish the significant from the inconsequential, assign meaning, and shape our behavior: “This plant will kill you. That one is food.”
The cultural lens reflects both the individual learning of personal experience and the shared learning of the tribe, as communicated through its framing cultural stories. These stories, which the tribe’s storytellers traditionally passed from generation to generation, shape our collective identity and relationships. “This is who we are, what we value, and how we behave.”
The experiences of our ancestors offer us wisdom for surviving today’s crises.
The processes by which culture shapes our perceptions and behavior occur mostly at an unconscious level. It rarely occurs to us to ask whether the reality we perceive through the lens of the culture within which we grew up is the “true” reality. We just take for granted that it is.
For five thousand years, successful imperial rulers have maintained their power in part by controlling the story tellers to communicate fabricated cultural stories that evoke fear, alienation, learned helplessness, and a sense dependence on a strong ruler for direction and protection…
http://voiceseducation.org/content/crumbling-cultural-story
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Yes, thanks, mike, that’s helpful, especially the first definition part. I don’t want to get too negative about them, as he does later, because we have to have them. Seems to me, we need to get a clear over-view, not get sucked in.
Another way, although I hate the ugly mechanistic analogy or metaphor, which is also misleading in many ways, but you can think of them, worldviews that is, as the Operating Systems running on the biological hardware, so Christian, Jewish, Moslem, Hindu, etc, are like Mac, Windows, Linux, etc, basically incompatible but do similar functional roles.
Then science would be the IT guys worldview, he comes along and takes the machines to pieces and looks under the hood at the machine code.
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Ulvfugl, I’ve been a fan of your writing going back to your long frequent posts on NBL. also hung out at your site: NTE. I really like the stream of consciousness writing, like a Jazz improvisation and that’s what jazz is. Like listening to Miles play a sad blue note until it breaks your heart. I’m glad x-ray mike gives you the space.
Thanks for talking about Joe Campbell. He never gets much mention anymore even though he was never understood by most fans and critics alike. They thought he was an intellectual lightweight but that’s complete horeseshit. Joe earned his stripes. His interpretation of Joyce’s “Ulysees” saved Joyce’s career. Keep blowing that horn!
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Hi Mike, Nice to see you around, I’m a fan of yours too 🙂
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Another good explanation of what a worldview is
http://web.engr.oregonstate.edu/~funkk/Personal/worldview.html
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Most of those belief systems are prepackaged, handed down over the millennia, includes the individual in a belief tribe and soothes their most discomforting realization – death. Few look any deeper to see themselves as systems composed of billions of cells or dissipative structures or somatic cell transport for the development, maturation and delivery of their germ cells. They must retard their mental development in a manner that ensures their uniqueness in nature and the promise of everlasting life. The intellect doesn’t need this, but the limbic brain is willing to pull the strings of the intellect to get a happy ending. Most people are technicians in moving matter and energy into structure and and live their lives in this systematic way without a bit of reflection. They do, but know not what they do and don’t want to know. I’ve worked with biological specialists that still can’t fully accept Darwinism because they’ve been so strongly inculcated with religious belief. Religious belief wins the battle in their limbic minds. Their technical undertaking require little reflection upon greater realities. As the conditions on the ground give people a more intimate familiarity with death, I don’t expect them to crack open their physics texts for comfort. Instead they will crack open the Bible or Koran for a simple comforting story and in their most hypocritical way, behead or burn any heretical scientist that has not been born again into the ignorance and confusion of the masses.
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I see them all as stories, James, and I don’t see your privileging of one bundle of stories ( the one’s re the delivery of germ cells, and physics ) which is what I think you are doing, as helpful, really.
We’ve got a terrible problem here. Belief systems were meant, or so it seems to me, to provide for a fundamental human need.
They gave us, as bewildered primates, a sort of system of sign posts to find our way around in rather terrifying and possibly meaningless Universe, and gave us a place in the environment, in the community, in time and space, and in our own psychology.
You know, they kinda evolved in specific localities to suit specific people at specific times.
Then history came along, redistributed the people, crashed the belief systems into each other, gave us this mess we’ve got, and also gave us modern science.
Those ‘ignorant masses’ you are looking down on, they’ve mistaken science for one of the traditional belief systems and are angry and disillusioned when it doesn’t perform the role a traditional belief system is supposed to play. Who can blame them for that ? They have my sympathy.
There’s ‘scientists’ telling them that the Universe ( that made them ) is meaningless, that they themselves are meaningless, that their lives are meaningless, that they have no souls, that any sort of spirituality is a delusion, that they are merely meat-robots, programmed to reproduce themselves and then die, for no reason at all.
Are you surprised, is anyone surprised, that they turn to Bibles and Korans that give them a far richer and more interesting vision and sense of identity ?
I mean, that ‘scientific’ worldview may be very interesting in all sorts of ways, but if it doesn’t satisfy basic human needs, then it’s no good as a belief system – and of course, it was NEVER INTENDED to satisfy basic human needs, that’s just a tragic confusion, it was an entirely different project.
What’s more, the scientific worldview, as told by many scientists IS bullshit. They all lag behind the cutting edge, the make declarative statements, which are obsolete, and they make declarative statements which are not scientific at all because they cannot be tested, and are merely fanciful speculation.
On the one hand, then, physics is taken to be a march toward an ultimate understanding of reality; on the other, it is seen as no different in status to the understandings handed down to us by myth, religion..
http://www.aeonmagazine.com/world-views/margaret-wertheim-the-limits-of-physics/
Physicists have discovered a jewel-like geometric object that dramatically simplifies calculations of particle interactions and challenges the notion that space and time are fundamental components of reality.
https://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/20130917-a-jewel-at-the-heart-of-quantum-physics/
Space and time are NOT fundamental components of reality ??
This may be great news for physicists, but all it does for ORDINARY people is add more pressure and confusion, its like psychological terrorism, destroying their grasp on the world they live in. And next week, very likely there will be another paper in another journal which shows how that one must be wrong…
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If we could just go back to the jungle and believe in spirits in the trees, spirits in the animals, magical spirits everywhere we would be just fine. Humans could live in balance, half or more of newborns would die before the age of 5 and balance would happen. But that’s not the case. We’ve evolved in a rather cancerous direction where each technological innovation increases not our fitness, but our survivability. Each round of technological innovation allows us to consume more of the ecological body from which we escaped, until the entire sun driven structure is so overcome by metastatic humans that it collapses.
Now, why should I be concerned whether this greedy, growth oriented carcinoma preserves its precious little beliefs while it cannibalizes itself. I say damn them all for their willful ignorance and complicity in destroying all that should be sacred. But the environment is not sacred, it is the selfish individual that must destroy while being assured of eternal life in a heaven that could only be constructed in the great open spaces of a vacuous and virginal minds unsullied by knowledge. Maybe we should all follow the guidance of the Texas GOP grand poobahs and abandon critical thought completely. Cracker magic beats knowledge any ole day in the lone star state, just plain feels good and that’s what its all about.
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Yeah, but how you respond personally to this crisis, is a slightly different topic, isn’t it ? I mean, people discuss that every day on NBL, from a very broad range of perspectives.
What I’ve written here grew out of that discussion, but its looking from a different angle, the historical viewpoint re belief systems and worldviews.
I’m not offering any answers or advising policy or solutions or anything like that, I’m just trying to elucidate the karma, so to speak, why and how we arrive in this particular fuck up, looked at from one POV.
There’s obviously lots of other more familiar angles you can view from, energy, imperialism, overpopulation, economocs, etc, etc. which are equally valid.
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Good essay ulvfugl. This is one way our world-view crumbles and dissolves through living life. What we think or believe comes into question either by others, or most often and most cogently via our own “coming to grips” with events like the death of our parents, tumultuous economic upheaval or (especially now) some catastrophic “natural” event – like your entire town gets flooded right off the map.
So we begin as little children unable to critically question the stories being handed down to us, the schooling we are indoctrinated by and the peer pressure that molds our actions. As we mature (those of us who actually do in the mental sense), these “primitive stories” become insufficient at explaining events of either history, biology, sociology, economy, ecology or politics and none of them touch on the science behind it all.
We inherently “know” our own human nature (probably on a limited basis due to cultural and socioeconomic position) but even this begins to warp when factors such as life and death situations come into play. All of us may be capable of murder under the right circumstances (and we ignore or think nothing of the murder of other species so that we may survive another day), but we don’t think about it because it isn’t relevant in our lives. We listen to the news and feel nothing or numb at all the horrific events in our world.
My own world view is gone now due to the complete environmental collapse we’re imposing on the planet under the banner of “civilization.” I’ve floated adrift in the void created when my worldview crashed and burned with NTE, with zen stories mixed with astrophysics and geology combined with some feeling of what is referred to as “love” all swirling around with no solid foundation, in a sort of cloud of situational ethics, cultural duty (“job”) and familial obligations. Now i’m empty and quiet, I only appreciate one moment at a time – petting the dog with “no-thought,” carrying out the trash without any longer questioning my contribution to the demise of the Earth, reflecting and letting go of all arising thoughts. i’m on automatic pilot, as it were.
I “know” it’s over. If not for the planet and humanity, at least for myself. I have no illusions of a heaven or returning to past kin, I just don’t know what happens, but i’m sure i’ll find out. My sense is that the entity ‘Tom’ will cease to be concentrated on and that the consciousness I’ve been so concerned with/rooted by my entire life will dissolve into the whole of the universe (whatever that means). Maybe the atoms that make up my shell will be dispersed and recombined with others somewhere else. Whatever happens is, like all of life, entirely out of my control. The most we can do is witness, acknowledge, and move on (I guess).
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Thanks, Tom.
Oh, it’s over. Just that most people don’t get it. We get the Mass Extinction Event, and it’s already too late, imo, just from the ocean acidification, let alone alone the rest. So what do we do ? Perfection in the moment, here and now…
http://climatestate.com/2013/09/21/ocean-acidification-in-earths-past-insights-to-the-future-james-zachos/
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Beautiful! I’d like to reprint your post post if you don’t mind James.
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“I believe that our culture is turning to steam” – Alan Moore
From The Mindscape of Alan Moore – full movie here…
Ugyfugl – I appreciate and admire your efforts.
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Ulvfugl – Sorry, man…typed too fast
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Same difference 😉 Yes. Steaming…
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Just look what mischief you have caused, Alan.
Saudi Arabia’s religious police raided shops and seized a large number of ‘vendetta’ masks ahead of the Gulf Kingdom’s 83th national day on Monday.
The Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice has warned shops against selling those masks, which are inspired from a 2005 British film set in the near future in which the main actor tries to ignite a revolution.
Several Commission members fanned out through the main market in the southern Saudi Jazan province and confiscated the masks, which were daubed with white and green colours in a bid to tempt buyers and evade police.
“Shop keepers in Jazan market tried to protest against the action by the Commission members, but they were told that they were only carrying out orders by the Ministry of Interior,” the Saudi Arabic language daily Ajel said.
http://www.emirates247.com/news/region/saudi-bans-vendetta-for-national-day-2013-09-22-1.521876
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Lots of interesting stuff to take away from this thoughtful essay. A few thoughts:
The idea of a worldview constructed essentially of stories, whether mythos or logos or some combination between, is something familiar to me, which I’ve been reporting and repeating for some time now. The new element with your post above, providing some insight, is that we need a coherent worldview from which to launch and explore and ultimately return so that we don’t spend our entire existence in befuddlement and bewilderment. Thus, irrational and unshakeable doctrine comes into being, sometimes scientific (e.g., technological utopianism and solutionism) and sometimes religious, to avoid everything being continuously contingent and unsettled. If there is an honest, wholesome doctrine beyond a few individuals or clans, it must have escaped my notice.
The mythos/logos or left brain/right brain orientation is also quite familiar to me from having book blogged through McGilchrist’s The Master and His Emissary. Obviously, we all operate on hybrids of those two poles, which are described as separate and distinct as a rhetorical device. As you suggest, McGilchrist asserts that logos is currently winning the day, which leads to distortions and corruptions woven so deeply into the culture they are nearly impossible to know or uncover. That’s where the default mindset of the Western world lies, despite its largely ceremonial embrace of mythos, and many of us who can understand the distinctions (meaning, for instance, me) are nonetheless trapped in an orientation dominated by logos. Just how heavily dominated is still a question, but those moment when I can sense awe, wonder, sanctity, and the numinous are few.
The absence of humanism in our basic worldview, or as you put is, a place for US in our own cosmology, has been addressed again and again in philosophy, especially in the phenomenological tradition. Personally, I tend to subscribe to a more Existential view, which is that life is absurd and devoid of ultimate meaning (if such a thing exists), but what the hell just get on with it and make of it what one can. That may sound cavalier, but it’s freeing, too.
None of this means I have much figgered out or that our historical trajectory (NTE) is in the slightest bit altered, but as a provisional operating rule — trying to make sense of things — I suppose it’s better than accepting wholesale the corrupted values of the dominant culture, namely, fame, riches, and power achieved on the back of the natural world and its inhabitants.
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Hi Brutus,
Did you get my emails ?
There is the thorny question re why mythos and logos don’t operate harmoniously and why left and right hemispheres likewise, and why that divide came about, and when.
I actually LIVE in the awe sanctity and numinosity, believe it or not 🙂
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If there is an honest, wholesome doctrine beyond a few individuals or clans, it must have escaped my notice.
Yes, they are all pretty dreadful, aren’t they. But there are thousands and thousands of minority worldviews that the anthropologists have documented, which make for a fascinating study.
Is it the Shuar ? maybe, who meet up every morning to discuss their dreams. Seems to me a very sound epistemological position, if the Universe has made us, then the Universe should send us guidance, and what better way to do it, than at night when we are sleeping, so the tribe can receive some hints and clues as to how its affairs should best proceed.
Maybe that’s how it was meant to be, or evolved to be, as a natural functioning format, which has been subverted and corrupted, as in the examples xray posted, by tv and exploitation.
You see, if you look at ritualised type of behaviours in other animals and primates, they all have some function, some value, some reason. I believe we are story telling animals, we made these stories, originally, because they had survival value for our social groups, in all kinds of ways.
We still have those same basic needs, just as we need vitamins and sex and warmth and all the rest. Sure, young men and women like crazy adventures, but after that most want stability and security and a story that makes sense of the world they live in and the future for their off spring. Once that goes, no wonder they get pretty crazy.
Years ago, I met a guy who grew up in London, and one day a letter came that the authorities were going to demolish the neighborhood. And that’s what they did. they just erased all the houses and streets and the whole history of the area going back for generations, for re-development. So when he returned there, there was not a single familiar landmark for miles in any direction.
In the greater scheme of things, this is a small matter, of course, but for him, it was devastation, when your personal history, your family’s history, your schooldays, your friendships, everything you’ve known gets obliterated. Seems to me, that’s the sort of thing that happens when a person’s worldview is undermined. And they respond by trying to save themselves, by trying to retain or salvage something.
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Thanks for your honest feelings of frustration and despair, ulvfugl. Here are my thoughts on how to deal with the rather crushing problems we face on a global scale. The focus on problems at the larger scale, which we CANNOT change as individuals, can lead us to learned helplessness, which then leads to anxiety, and emotional/behavioral shutdown that leads to depression and stuck-ness.
What can we change? What are we not helpless about? What power do we have?
We have the power to do and to act. Invest your time, attention, and emotional energy where you have the power. Be honest about how you feel, honor those feelings, decide what you can do, even at your scale of influence, and do it. Kudos to you for writing about those feelings honestly.
“”I have never been especially impressed by the heroics of people who are convinced they are about to change the world. I am more awed by those who struggle to make one small difference after another.”–Ellen Goodman
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Thank you, Iaato.
Oh, I’m sure we can all change ourselves, and we can send out a vibe and actions, which influence everyone we ever contact or connect with, that part is fine, but I still think we get NTE.
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This is all very interesting. However, I recognised a couple of years ago that humanity ‘took a wrong turn’ when a group of people planted seeds and began to defend an area of ground in order to recoup more than they had invested, probably around 20,000 years ago. All the hierarchical power systems, the [phony] religious systems, the ownership systems, and the abstract financial systems etc. even the Scientific Revolution, were natural progressions from seemingly wise decisions made long before there were any civilisations. I have, on several occasions postulated that ‘the game was lost’ more than 200,000 years ago, when some smart individual worked out how to tie a sharpened stone to a stick.
Long before my awakening I became desperate to save the planet and my grandchildren’s futures: around 15 years ago I began asking questions of MPs, government ministers, city and district councils, political parties, activist groups etc. I wrote several; books which covered all the important topics [of resource depletion, energy depletion and environmental degradation] and devoted thousands of hours to waking people up. I never got any rational responses from official sources and most people were not concerned. It was largely futile.
Again around two years ago I recognised that the vat majority of people (including the vast majority of community and national leaders and bureaucrats) are scientifically illiterate. And the greater portion of those who do have some inkling that things are not going to turn out rosily are spineless, preferring to say and do nothing rather than risk losing employment, power and pension rights.
Following the death of Albert Bartlett I recognised the ‘failure’ was not the failure of truth-tellers and activists, but the failure of the general public to grasp reality, and the wilful failure, based on Constructed Ignorance, of those in power to deal with reality. The list goes back to Hubbert, Rickover, Carson, Keeling, the Meadow group, Bartlett, Hansen, Campbell, …….over many decades. All of them ignored.
For me there is almost nothing left to say. I have said most of it a thousand times with little effect. The nightmare I referred to a coupe of years ago will continue. Me banging my head against the wall of apathy and denial will make no difference to the outcome, just exasperate me.. .. .
That said, websites such as CoIC and NBL can offer latecomers the opportunity to become informed and perhaps make some preparations for what is to come, so keep the postings coming, Mike.
On the topic of personal emotional response to recognising that most people are ignorant and apathetic (and in many cases stupid and stubborn), 3 years ago I went through a period of extreme grief, what I described as beyond depression.
Now I look at what is going on around me with a sense of detached amazement, knowing that most people will be the architects of their own demise but will do nothing to prevent catastrophe (either personal or global)…
One of the ‘hot topics’ for anyone still trapped in the matrix is the progress of the America’s Cup. It was over decade ago, that I recognised the whole thing for what it was -a splendid scheme for transferring money from ordinary folk to ultra-wealthy sociopaths and corporations via sponsorship deals, flag-waving and marketing (support ‘our team’). Now, when conversation turns to such matters I say nothing.
More than two generations of careful training of the general populace by TPTB cannot be undone. There is no cure for ignorance and apathy.
. . .
.
.
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James Hillman seems to be saying something similar :
And as the ages change, those old things that seemed to be great virtues suddenly become vices. The 2000 years that preceded this was the great expansion of the West, and the age of the great monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Yet these three salvational prophecies with their tremendous aesthetic accomplishments and enormous civilizing effects have turned into monsters in their self-absorption with their righteousness and orthodoxies. They lack insight; all three claim to be “the one.”
[B][I]Pythia[/I][/B]: What would be another example of something turning into it’s opposite?
[B][I]Hillman[/I][/B]: I would point to the great beliefs of secularism and humanism that began in the 17th century or even earlier. So as we see today with writers like Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins, the “fourth religion” is throwing out religion. This leaves us with a kind of barren scientism, or what religious people describe as a godless humanism.
http://www.archetypeinaction.com/index.php/tools-to-change-society/92-wake-up-calls/1846-america-and-the-shift-in-ages-an-interview-with-jungian-james-hillman#.Uj4wFVWzKph
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http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/sep/21/climate-change-ipcc-global-warming
Scientists will this week issue their starkest warning yet about the mounting dangers of global warming. In a report to be handed to political leaders in Stockholm on Monday, they will say that the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation have now led to a warming of the entire globe, including land surfaces, oceans and the atmosphere.
Extreme weather events, including heatwaves and storms, have increased in many regions while ice sheets are dwindling at an alarming rate. In addition, sea levels are rising while the oceans are being acidified – a development that could see the planet’s coral reefs disappearing before the end of the century.
Writing in the Observer ahead of the report’s release, the economist and climate change expert Lord Stern calls on governments to end their dithering about fossil fuels and start working to create a global low-carbon economy to curtail global warming. Governments, he states, must decide what “kind of world we want to present to our children and grandchildren”.
The fifth assessment report on the physical science of climate change by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) warns that humanity is on course over the next few decades to raise global temperatures by more than 2C compared with pre-industrial levels. Such a rise could trigger the release of plumes of the greenhouse gas methane from the thawing Arctic tundra, while the polar ice caps, which reflect solar radiation back into space, could disappear.
Although the report does not say so, Earth would probably then be facing a runaway greenhouse effect.
The scientists’ warning – the most comprehensive and convincing yet produced by climate scientists – comes at a time when growing numbers of people are doubting the reality of global warming. Last week, the UK Energy Research Centre (UKERC) published a survey showing that the proportion of British people who do not think the world’s climate is changing has almost quadrupled since 2005.
Asked if they thought Earth’s climate was changing, 5% of respondents said “no” in 2005, a figure that rose to 11% last year and reached 19% this year.
But as the IPCC report underlines, scientists are becoming more and more certain that climate change poses a real danger to the planet.
Many believe the disconnection between popular belief and scientific analysis has been engineered by “deniers” explicitly opposed to the lifestyle changes – including restrictions on fossil fuel burning – that might be introduced in the near future.
“There are attempts by some politicians and lobbyists to confuse and mislead the public about the scientific evidence that human activities are driving climate change and creating huge risks,” said Stern.
“But the public should be wary of those who claim they know for certain that unmanaged climate change would not be dangerous. For they are not only denying 200 years of strong scientific evidence – the overwhelming view of the world’s scientific academies and over 95% of scientific papers on the subject – but they are often harbouring vested interests or rigid ideologies as well.”
The report will be discussed this week by political leaders meeting in Stockholm. The study – the work of more than 200 scientists – outlines the physical changes that are likely to affect Earth’s climate this century.
Future reports will cover the social impact of these changes and the efforts required to offset the damage caused by global warming. A United Nations meeting in Paris in 2015 will then debate what actions are needed to mitigate climate change.
According to the new report, humanity has emitted about half a trillion tonnes of carbon by burning fossil fuels over the past 250 years, a process that has caused atmospheric carbon dioxide levels to rise by 40%. The world is now on target to release another half trillion tonnes in the next few decades which could trigger a major jump in global temperatures.
Most measures that have been proposed for tackling global warming rely on curtailing the burning of fossil fuels and these will form the focus of the 2015 UN meeting in Paris. Given the poor record of previous summits, many are pessimistic an agreement can be reached.
However, other measures have been suggested to curb global warming. In particular, many scientists have backed geo-engineering projects that would involve either spraying particles into the atmosphere to reflect solar radiation back into space or extracting carbon dioxide from the atmosphere in order to bury it in mines or depleted oil fields.
Both suggestions get short shrift in the new report: atmospheric aerosols could have widespread side-effects that could produce major disruptions to weather patterns, while not enough is known about the effectiveness of carbon dioxide extraction or burial. “We have to face up to the prospect of weaning ourselves off our addiction to oil and coal,” said one report author. “It is as simple as that.”
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Hi theres are few ways to develop your position further:
Meditation including buddhist insight meditation, if that is your path, doesnt merely lead to the extinction of self, the rational sense of experiencing self, identity, it leads to an emptiness of thought and feeling of fullness of spirit or Presence, you, as a sense of Being that is causal of your perception of reality and which you, me, others, are one with and hence can take responsibility and act with the awareness of your analysis. Humility serves a full and optimistic heart.
I survived AIDS almost 17 years without medication and am not on the lightest dose of medication (boosted monotherapy) in my country, whereas the gold standard worldwide is three drugs. This is because reality is not determined by viruses or materialism and quantum particles in the body are determined by the endocrine glands, consciousness, intentionality.
Along those lines it is meaningful to practice being moved by spirit and externalizing our values, so we’re building an ecovillage to survive the other human beings who may choose to panic and respond in fear. This is the choice, to respond or react. What is your position?
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Hi daniel,
Develop my position further ? This essay is not about my position, it’s an over view of belief systems and world views and culture.
If you want me to comment upon my position and your position, what I’d say is that I think people should do whatever they think is the right thing for them to do.
If you think ‘building an ecovillage to survive’ is the right thing to do, that’s your choice. My view is that it will not make any difference, we will still get the Mass Extinction Event which is unavoidable now, for reasons I outlined very briefly above.
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Btw, congratulations re your illness, daniel, and good luck with your project, it is amazing how one can heal one’s being if one knows how, I completely agree with that part.
Also, where all these ramblings began, was in the comments on NBL on this thread and some of the earlier ones.
http://guymcpherson.com/2013/09/the-absurdity-of-authenticity/
I do have fairly strong personal views on a whole range of related issues, but this particular topic is really about trying to untangle what’s going on out there, looked at from a vantage point above the affray, so to speak.
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Science does NOT tell us we are meaningless. It does not say why we are here, or why all this “stuff” is here. It never has, and never will.
What it does is call most, or all, of the religious explanations of our place in the universe bullshit.
So now we are left with no well agreed upon cosmology.
But don’t blame science.
Science never said we are meaningless. We may interpret it that way, but that is not a message from science.
The problem is, collectively, we don’t have a new substitute for the world’s religious traditions. Each of us has to make up his own. I have, sort of. But it is tough to build a belief system that fits in to what we have learned from science.
For me, science has brought to me, in a way Christianity never had, a love for the beauty of the natural world, and an appreciation of the fragility of nature as we know it today. It used to give me some hope that what it teaches us about nature and our animal and plant neighbors will help us to protect and preserve our natural heritage.
It does not anymore.
Now I realize that the world’s people are more concerned with getting through each day as easily as possible with little thought to maintaining a healthy environment. Nature, as we know it, is over. Now science tells me it is over. It teaches NTE.
But I’m not going to blame science for the empty feeling I get in my heart when I think about where I am now, who I am, why I am. Science didn’t do that. 7 billion people and greed and gluttony and ignorance has done that.
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Science tells us we are here because of evolution. Physical cosmology is studied by scientists. Religious or mythological cosmology is what scientific thought dispels. Mythological cosmology, as opposed to religious cosmology, uses philosophical methods to explain what science cannot:
source
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Wow ! what an amazing list, never even heard of Ambiplasma, before thanks 🙂
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Quite a bit of deep and complicated stuff to go through.
I’m probably not up to it.
But more to the point, I have found when I have delved into some of that kind of philosophy and thinking, I still end up where I started: no answers for why we are here, why the universe is here, what is the purpose of all this stuff?
Some great, amazing minds have written libraries on this stuff, but they have gotten no further than any honest thinking person: we simply do not know. We all die without knowing. And I doubt that this will change in our future.
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I think that is the position, Paul, acknowledged by all serious thoughtful educated people.
However, all the premodern traditions, without the benefit of brain scanners and CERN and computers, discovered that they could find a route beyond logic and reasoned thought, by way of meditation, that took them to some sort of interface with the divine.
There are countless detailed descriptions of this, the techniques required, the experiences of the procedures, the nature of the results, dating back to millennia BC, and from all the major belief systems, and many minor ones.
So what do we make of that, in modern, or modern philosophical, or modern scientific terms ? I think that’s an extremely interesting question, and I don’t find anything much that’s helpful on the internet, anywhere.
http://brutus.wordpress.com/2013/08/30/redefined-terms/#comment-8113
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pfgetty sez: Some great, amazing minds have written libraries on this stuff, but they have gotten no further than any honest thinking person: we simply do not know. We all die without knowing. And I doubt that this will change in our future.
There may be an ultimate meaning, and ultimate purpose, and ultimate end to the world and universe we inhabit, but there may not. That the question is unanswerable despite so many amazing minds having addressed it is significant, I think, as is our perpetual questioning with the supposition that answers can be had. Those who believe they have found the ultimate whatever are typically understood as mystics, spiritualists, and simply the faithful. As you suggest and ulvfugl confirms, serious, thoughtful, educated people don’t usually fall into any of these camps, though a few do by virtue of some sort of revelatory experience or epiphany (hard to avoid the religiously charged words).
I gave a speech several years ago called Losing the Soul to Science that argued the soul (interpret that term how you will) is effectively extinguished by the mechanistic worldview relied upon by different scientific eras. The modern scientific era/model has gotten especially adept at addressing questions of how and avoiding why, which has led to science as a mode of inquiry being transformed into a means of acting upon the world (or parts and subparts of it, aggressively ignoring their interdependence). Some critics insist that science doesn’t explain so much as explain away. To the credulous, that means that technology is equivalent to science. And oddly enough, since people are frequently so scientifically illiterate while being simultaneously technologically proficient, we get the so-called Jesus Phone and similar magical devices. The sociology of the automobile would be a good case study.
BTW, this is all just a discussion. I don’t intend to proselytize or convert. Your line about dying without knowing is probably as good a summation as any.
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( I shan’t ask again, did you get my emails ? 🙂 Your comment went to an old dead version of my blog )
(or parts and subparts of it, aggressively ignoring their interdependence).
I call that reductionism, which almost all science is, very few scientists put the jigsaw pieces together to see the larger picture, which is ok in some areas but a catastrophe re climate and the environment.
Yeah, a lot confuse science and technology can’t tell the difference.
I actually do believe we could make some progress, re ‘the unanswerable’, or sometimes I do 🙂 Maybe I’ll say something below if I feel inspired 🙂
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Yeah, I got them and replied twice. Apparently they’re not getting through. If you retry me via e-mail, I’ve still got my reply I can resend to you.
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Strange. I got nothing. I’m wolf dot bird at virgin dot com
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Thanks Brutus for your comments. I feel privileged to be able to read on the Internet the ideas of people like you and others here who have done so much research and study on these big questions and issues. Inspiring.
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That’s certainly nice of you to say. I’m also privileged and humbled to read what others have to say, especially those who have been examining these questions longer than I have and developed expertise I don’t even pretend to possess. I obviously go toward the humanities side of things, whereas others focus on the science and current events sides. Combining all perspectives is what makes our discussion worthwhile. (Luckily, we have no politicians here offering infuriating platitudes and incentivizing yet more economic growth.)
I happened across an advertisement for a class/seminar/lecture series on the meaning of life by Jay Garfield offered by a company called The Great Courses:
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=4320
In an earlier incarnation of myself, I might have been inclined to seek out his expertise. These days, it would never occur to me to make a formal study of something I’m already addressing on my own. Further, the buffet-style assemblage of ideas from everywhere and throughout history, while perhaps instructive to avoid recreating well-known wheels, seems to me willfully blind about how our particular circumstances and endowments channel us toward very specific conclusions. I doubt, for instance, that Prof. Garfield has anything in his course about how to find meaning in life while facing up to collapse and likely NTE. Worse, the slick sales approach in the intro video is risible, with the tone and appearance of a virility ad on TV: rich, happy, winsome retirees (all white) hanging on each other like teenagers. Yuck.
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Hi Paul,
Science DOES give us a cosmology. It’s constantly repeated on tv, in books, on youtube, etc.
It says that The Universe began with the Big Bang and expanded into what we have, life on this planet came into being out of chemistry, evolved, and produced us, the thing will keep on going until it all stops at some point,
That’s the story it has been telling us all of my life. It says all of this happens for no reason, and we exist here, for no reason, as the result of a series of random, arbitrary events.
I can’t think of any occasion when a scientist has said ‘We are not certain whether there is any meaning to any of this, there may be’. Although I do know there are plenty of scientists who are Christians and of other religions who in private hold to religious views, the official position, in my experience, is that the Universe and life has no teleological direction, no intentional cause, no significance at all, it’s just ‘stuff’.
I completely accept that science, – as a project, as an enquiry into the nature of nature, into the nature of reality, and exploration, a quest to discover truth – was never intended to be a belief system, or a replacement for religion, it was always a different animal altogether. That’s part of the tragedy of all this, the absurd confusion that has arisen.
Tradition mythologies which were evolved to give tribal peoples a coherent worldview, with their own quirky local customs, viz taboos against this or that, tailored to particular local circumstances, have collided with this other scientific project and with other belief systems, and the result is this messy post-modern battlefield, which I am trying to explain to people as best I can.
Ideally, we’d want a completely new belief system that was designed to fulfil people’s real requirements, without all the legacy junk. People have tried that too, it just seems to add one more crock of shit to the mess.
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More thoughts on this, Paul. There isn’t just one ‘scientific worldview’, is there. Worldviews exist in individual people’s heads, and scientists vary a lot just like everyone else.
In a past life, many years ago, when I used you meet a great many people, I used to enjoy asking a few key questions to discover what a person’s worldview was. People are typically very muddled. They can hold completely contradictory beliefs.
As an NBL, arguing with people who ‘don’t believe that quantum nonsense’but are using computers which only work because of that ‘quantum nonsense’.
The example I gave above applies typically to physicists. Archaeologists or anthropologists or zoologists would typically have a different model, with a different emphasis of the place of a human creature. But for physicists, they can model the whole Universe, from large to small, with no requirement for any mention of a human being.
And this does date, quite clearly, right back to the origins of science, where the subjective observer is deliberately and consciously excluded. The whole idea is to build an epistemology that is objective and assumes a hypothetical reality that exists quite separate from any conscious human being.
The trouble is, quantum physics has demonstrated, CONCLUSIVELY, no argument from ANY physicists, that no such reality exists.
So, the whole philosophical foundation of science should be, ought to be, needs to be, over hauled and re-thought.. It does not get done because nobody knows how to do it, so everybody muddles along and pretends there isn’t a problem.
And science still works, as an investigative project, even if the philosophical underpinnings are irrational and the epistemology is a mess.
What I’ve tried to point out, in this essay, is what a disaster this is when people mistake science for a belief system in the traditional religious sense, when they confuse mythos with logos, when they look for eternal poetic truth in what are ever changing scientific discoveries.
You see, some people, like Einstein, maybe even yourself, are sophisticated enough to live satisfactory lives without any need for a ‘spiritual dimension’ that relies on a traditional cosmology of some kind. But many people are never going to be able to do that. We can’t all be Alan Moore, and decide to be magicians free from any sort of cultural tether.
So what happens to the rest ? I hate the way they are being described as ignorant stupid folk because they don’t accept Darwin. They’ve never even been told about what Darwin ACTUALLY said. They’ve had fucking social darwinism, ‘Survival of the fittest’, via Herbert Spencer and Carnegie stuffed down their throats as a way to exploit them and make the elite powerful and rich, and now they’ve got crackpot neo-darwinist fundamentalist Dawkins stuffing another set of dogmatic fascistic ideology down their throats…
I have considerable sympathy for those people. They get exploited by faked Christianity, they exploited by faked science, and exploited by the capitalist machine.
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All very true. Science has made it very hard to bring on a new religion that could satisfy most people. There simply are no good ideas for a new spirituality that can serve as a substitute for the old ones. So, what I see is many people, having gone through a time of searching, going back to Christianity or the religion they grew up with, and trying desperately to believe the silly supernatural parts of it, and trying to squeeze all of what they know to be rational about the world into concepts that just simply don’t fit. It is a mess.
I decided to simply not believe what I know to be fantasy, but just believe a few comforting concepts about god, and then not try to understand it any further. And then be part of a very open and liberal religious tradition and not worry too much about it. Maybe it will work for me during the next two decades, my last decades, which, I am sure will go very fast and be filled with challenges that will keep me very busy.
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Gawd 🙂 I think the last thing we need is new religions. There are thousands and thousands of them already, with thousands and thousands of sects and sub-divisions, something to suit every kind of person to be found somewhere.
Organized Atheism is now a franchise.
http://www.salon.com/2013/09/22/atheism_starts_its_megachurch_is_it_a_religion_now/
Thing is, you don’t need to join anything to have a spiritual life, or spiritual experiences, or to follow a spiritual path, you can do that anywhere, anytime, all for free, on your own.
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That is true, I’m sure. Spirituality can be a solo flight.
However, it is a shame we cannot benefit from the group worship like we used to without signing onto ridiculous beliefs. Hunter-gatherers sure do have an awesome time in their religious-music-drumming-dancing all night parties. I envy them.
I know we could somehow do much the same but, really, for the vast majority of us, that is not going to happen.
I guess you could say that our youth, in drug and alcohol induced frenzy, come pretty close to that kind of group therapy at rock concerts and frat parties, but it is seldom a community sanctioned event! And hardly spiritual.
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I don’t know why you see a problem, Paul. I tried to explain all this in my previous blog post here. You just breath in and out. Here you are. What’s hard about it ? You want to make it something exotic and supernatural that happens somewhere else to someone else. Why ?
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I didn’t say that. You are right. It is quite simple. I am just saying that so many people seem to need a religion they can join and be deeply embedded in. I am over that now. I agree with you that some, like you and now me, do not need the big institutional deal. I feel that society seems to need the big deal. And they are not finding it.
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I agree that losing our cultural traditions and beliefs and spirituality has led to much of humanity feeling alone, without direction or purpose. It is the way I was going at one time.
I am 64 and a couple of decades ago I realized I needed something besides logic and science, and so I thought I’d give another try to religion. My kids were babies and it was good for the family to be part of a church. Surprisingly, over a long time the social benefits of church membership paid off. Made lots of nice friends that are now like family, learned to be part of a choir, great cookies after the service, and the covered dish suppers were amazing.
But the church doctrine? The basic tenets of Christianity? Not a chance. The stuff is ridiculous. Illogical, proven false, and it is easy to study how the beliefs came about throughout the ages. Tried, but I can’t believe the supernatural stories.
BUT, because my church is a liberal Episcopal church, they are fine with agnostics openly discussing their views, and over time I came to a compromises of sorts.
I have realized that while science and logic can refute much of church doctrine, it doesn’t say a thing about what I really do want to believe….what comforts me. And it is this: I believe there is a god. It seems just as irrational to believe there isn’t one. All this stuff in the universe, all made for nothing? No matter how much science discovers and takes apart and analyzes all we know, the question remains: why all this? I don’t know for sure, but a logical answer is that there is some kind of god or something that figures all this out.
And then from there I just simply tend to believe that this god or something knows me, and cares. And that our departed loved ones somehow continue, and even see and watch us. There just isn’t anything in science or logic that can refute any of it. No better explanations from what I can see.
And so I will go with this.
And then add the busyness of life, the possibilities for fun, my job, caring for my family, other obligations, my garden, orchard, sheep, goats, and on and on, I think I can keep my head on straight even while being aware of the coming nightmare that I may see and my kids WILL see. It is a struggle, but I’m handling it ok right now without having to resort to real myths and fantasies.
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So you are one of the people who hold completely contradictory and mutually exclusive views in your head at the same time 🙂
I am not. You see, I have worked my way through all that stuff and arrived at a position where all those issues are satisfactorily resolved. For me.
This chart is not neutral, it’s prejudiced toward a Christian angle, and many other positions are missing, but it is quite interesting none the less.
http://www.visualnews.com/2011/05/25/choose-your-world-view-a-flowchart/
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Actually, my views don’t seem to me to be contradictory at all…….finally.
I am open for ideas and critical opinions of where I stand, but, honestly, I don’t see any contradictions in how I am viewing my place in the universe and purpose, particularly since I really admit I do not know and feel I cannot know.
I love hearing your ideas. I’d like to take some of them to my friends at church. They would love to discuss it all.
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Hahaha, you’ll have trouble taking MY teaching to your friends, Paul, because my teaching is designed to destroy ALL belief systems 🙂
What I mean is, have NO ideas. You train yourself to have a completely silent mind. I suppose you could tell them it is something like the Quaker way of worship, sitting in silence and listening to God, but it’s actually much more radical and highly developed than that.
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Over the past 40 years I have come across just two people in NZ (both educated at UK universities) with whom I could converse on a wide range of topics from the intricacies of photosynthesis or previous mass extinction to mechanisms and rates of global warming, to soil fertility, to gene theory, to the inconsistencies in biblical (or other religious) narratives. One of them died two decades ago, leaving just one person I know of who has any in-depth understanding of a wide range of factors that are of significance.
My personal experience has no statistical value, but if we were to scale up my observation, since there are approximately two thousand times as many people on Earth, there should be about 4000 people in the world who are willing and able to ‘get it’.
Several years ago Guy McPherson talked of the people who understood where we were headed and cared about the future of the living planet…..’all twelve of us’. Okay, that was hyperbole (or maybe he was thinking specifically about the US at the time). But I suspect the number of people globally who truly understand our predicament is still only measured in thousands. ,
New Zealand was one of the first nations to be subjected to looting and destruction of the social fabric by economic ‘saboteurs’, the phony ‘labour; government of the mid-1980s, which commenced the great sell-off of state assets to private corporations and opportunists. Older people here have seen the changes and are appalled. They recognise that the paradigm the nation was sold was a lie from the start, and has brought nothing but indebtedness and decline. So yes, cultural stories are crumbling fast, as unemployment rates increase and the cost of living rises inexorably. As the economic squeeze increases (due to declining EROEI,increasing world population, and environmental degradation) we must expect ever greater numbers of people to be ‘pushed off the cliff’ and recognise that the system is not benevolent. But as for them understanding any of the big picture, forget it.
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Knowing that atomic orbitals can hold 2,6,10 electrons, that electrons can have opposite spins, that electrons have the characteristics of particles and of waves, that they can interact with photons, and that we can predict their behaviour still does not explain why. Having mathematical models that explain the conversion of matter into energy still does not explain why.
In the not-too-distant future it will not matter.
The pressing matter for anyone who is awake is how to endure the death-by-a- thousand-cuts as the levels of madness and fascism rise. In the past I said: ‘continue to do the right thing when surrounded by those who do not’. Now, I say: ‘try to minimise the suffering that is to come’., Even that seems impossible within the present dominant culture.
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Yes, kevin.
Well, it’s up to each one of us to decide how we respond to this situation. Like I said, I walk up and down the Beach of Doom… I like to figure out how we got here, even though it’s pointless, it satisfies my curiosity..
Look at this, for example. Didn’t Jesus say something about, if you want to find the Kingdom of Heaven give everything you have to the poor ? He certainly wasn’t about getting rich, anyway. But some fucker managed to twist it all around, as they do…
Americans are the sons of Calvin. John Calvin preached that the pursuit of wealth and the preservation of property is a Christian duty. He taught that the temptations of the flesh demand a discipline as strict as that of the military profession. “He created an ideal type of man theretofore unknown to both religion and society, who was neither a humanist nor an ascetic, but a businessman living in the fear of God.” (1)
Two centuries later, this new type of man came under the influence of John Wesley. (2) “We exhort all Christians to amass as much wealth as they can, and to preserve as much as they can; in other words, to enrich themselves.” For President Madison, “The American political system was founded on the natural inequality of men.” Correlatively, the moral philosophy of the United States is based on success.
At the end of the Eighteenth Century a Frenchman, the Chevalier de Beaujour, wrote on his return from North America, “The American loses no opportunity to acquire wealth. Gain is the subject of all his conversations, and the motive for all his actions. Thus, there is perhaps no civilized nation in the world where there is less generosity in the sentiments, less elevation of soul and of mind, less of those pleasant and glittering illusions that constitute the charm or the consolation of life. Here, everything is weighed, calculated and sacrificed to self-interest.”
Another Frenchman, the Baron de Montlezun, added, “In this country, more than any other, esteem is based on wealth. Talent is trampled underfoot. How much is this man worth? they ask. Not much? He is despised. One hundred thousand crowns? The knees flex, the incense burns, and the once-bankrupt merchant is revered like a god.”
The British went even farther than the French. “They are escaped convicts. His Majesty is fortunate to be rid of such rabble. Their true God is power.”
http://www.voxfux.com/kennedy/farewell/farewell02.html
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Kevin Moore sez: The pressing matter for anyone who is awake is how to endure the death-by-a-thousand-cuts as the levels of madness and fascism rise.
Endure? Thrive? Survive? My first thought, as an endurance athlete (did a 50-mile bike ride today), is that grinding through the distance even with some difficulty is its own reward. But the object is much tamer than enduring our own times relatively intact, if such a prospect be possible. The precise manifestations of decline and collapse being quite impossible to anticipate with much accuracy, lots of the awake and aware among us have already decided not to bother (saving the last bullet for themselves). Quite the opposite of the preppers.
My pessimism about what’s to come and what can be done to mitigate is about as dark as it comes. I’m basically still stunned into paralysis, though I’m also spectacularly unconvinced much can be done anyway except perhaps sharing my last bread and liquor. Indeed, there’s a good chance I may just go mad, like so many who faced any one of our 20th-century genocides. Writ large, one can argue persuasively, as <a href="http://brutus.wordpress.com/2013/02/11/your-brain-on-postmodernism/"I did here, perhaps, that the world has already tipped over into madness and is in the process of destroying itself.
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Looks like I blew the tagging. Try
http://brutus.wordpress.com/2013/02/11/your-brain-on-postmodernism/
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One point that arose in xray’s comment at the top, re rulers controlling the story.
In the USA, you’ve got ‘Christians’ who believe in a a belief system which is really nothing to do with what the fellow Jesus actually taught, although they do not realise that.
And they oppose another group, the ‘scientists’ whom they believe, believe in Evolution, and yet the version of ‘evolution’ that they are horrified by, has nothing much to do with what Darwin actually came up with, nor with what a lot of evolutionary biologists actually believe.
And then, the scientists, who have contempt for the uneducated and ignorant religious fundamentalists, can’t understand why they cling to an irrational and absurd mythology, because they don’t even try to understand the nature of the problem we have here. Which is what I’m attempting to throw some light on.
So everybody is throwing rocks at strawmen, in the dark. I don’t expect anybody to stop because of anything I say, but it will give me a little satisfaction if I can understand it better myself, and who benefits from perpetuating the ‘divide and rule’ mess that we have.
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As you know, the key components of the Christian narrative that have caused Christian nations to become major agents of environmental destruction are ‘have dominion over’ and ‘go forth and multiply’.
Have dominion over has been interpreted as endorsement of looting and polluting. And go forth and multiply has been interpreted as become a plague. (Needless to say, other religions have promoted much the same.)
We are in the midst of local elections here. The system is geared to delivering into power candidates who endorse looting and polluting, and endorse population overshoot. Many people will vote for their own early demise. it is truly surreal.
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Certainly. And for a small tribe of Bronze Age pastoralists, if that’s what they were, it probably made some sense, because they were very vulnerable to being wiped away by any number of hostile environmental factors, droughts, disease, other tribes stealing their goats, high mother and infant mortality, and so on, maybe seemed like a good idea at the time, just like the steam engine and burning coal for the first time seemed like very good ideas…
Politicians have always been good at cherry picking the bits of stories that suit their ambitions and overlooking the bits that don’t. Seems whilst Jesus’s family members were still alive his teachings were being co-opted and corrupted.
Then you get Calvin saying the equivalent of ‘Greed is good’ and ‘It’s God’s will that the poor should suffer’, inverting Jesus’s teaching, and join that up with Capitalism and Science, and now Corporate Fascism, you’ve got a toxic ideology guaranteed to kill the biosphere and everybody… and for that mad myth, it’s all fine, because Armageddon hastens the Second Coming…
It’s like living in a global mental hospital with insaniacs giving the orders
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/didache.html
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ulvfuql,
– yes, having a faith (some honest faith) in higher power – is very helpful for one’s personal well-being, health, and way of life;
– no, having faith or otherwise having a way to see oneself a part of some “making sense” scheme which “explains” one’s and most-everything’s existance, – can’t suffice to prevent things you mention in the last part of the article.
Having faith and/or personally satisfying belief system – does not prevent worst features of man from manifesting. One quote from wikipedia article about christian crusades: ” This time the city was ransacked, churches pillaged and large numbers of the citizens butchered. The crusaders took their rewards; dividing the Empire into Latin fiefs and Venetian colonies. “.
Those were holy warriors, to remind you. Crusaders, i mean. They were kinda serving God.
Or take muslim extremists – all those beardy folks exploding themselves up, exploding things up, or, in a firefight, cutting heads and then throwing now and then a cut-off head back to still alive enemies – having a live grenade inserted into head’s mouth. My point here is, people who do that, – mojahaddin, holy warriors, literally, – those folks (well, at least some of ’em) are very, very sure that they are right and just and proper, and the atrocities which they are doing – are very much desired by the God of theirs.
So you see, it’s not the rationalism which led to exploitation and following die-out of Earth (or, do you think that people who are ready to kill innocent civilians by thousands via terrorism acts, – would hesistate about ruining a biosphere?).
What led to it, then, you ask?
Why, intellect, of course.
Humans evolved intellect, you see. Descartes merely accelerated technical progress; if he wouldn’t do it his way, – we’d still arrive to the same state, just perhaps a little bit later. A little bit only – others would certainly do much of what Descartes did, anyways.
Take nearly any technology as an example and ask yourself: would it be created (sooner or later) if mighty Logos would never be “born”? Explosives can be created, and sapient beings sooner or later learn how to make them – by pure chance, if nothing else; passing learned methods to others (especially in writing) makes sure that once discovered, technology remains “alive” for pretty much eternity (as long as humans would desire to keep using it – and, man, explosives are so useful!). Economics – same; capitalism – same; internal combustion engine – same; burning oil and coal for energy – same.
So, you see, reality is indeed very harsh. It’s difficult to face it “naked”, and not to give up, and to still see ways to go, and even see how and why both dead things and living beings – have sense and meaning and purpose. Humans included. One has to learn quite much of physics to get to it, too; and learning physics is often a hard work and also challenging intellectually – not everyone is capable to actually learn enough of it, too (even if honestly trying their best). So yes, for many, some sort of faith – is kind of the only way not to become crazy. We must respect it. I do.
But i respect it as long as that (some or other) faith – does not result in a significant harm to other beings (human and/or non-human beings, that is). Sadly, quite often it does. And when it does, it becomes an enemy of life, and is to be rid of.
P.S. From one wikipedia page, about one man who arguably is responsible for more damage to Earth’s biosphere than nearly any other human ever existed – note last two lines, and, very ironically, the place of his birth, too:
Born George Walker Bush
July 6, 1946 (age 67)
New Haven, Connecticut, U.S.
Political party Republican
…
Alma mater Yale University
Harvard Business School
Profession Businessman (Oil, baseball)
Religion Episcopal (Before 1977)[1]
United Methodism (1977–present)[2][3]
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Hello F. T.
Bush, like Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Churchill, any leader, from Napoleon all the way back to Julius Caesar, Constantine who took Christianity and made it the official Roman imperial religion, you can’t take any of THOSE people as examples of belief systems, because they don’t believe in anything, except power.
They follow the rules that Machiavelli explained.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Machiavelli
They say whatever lie will assist them achieve their goal. So I think we can safely leave them all out of the belief system and faith thing, and put them in a category on their own. Have you read Hannah Arendt ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Arendt
There is also an excellent analysis of how such people work here.
http://ponerology.com/
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Me, i can’t even try to compare G.W.Bush with Stalin, man. Because, the former was a puppet of the capital, while the latter was a dictator – massively great and in the same time massively cruel. Next, Stalin was very intelligent – G.W.Bush was and is… You know? Let’s say, not extremely very bright, he is. Can’t hide it, it’s in how he talks, how he reacts. Next, Bush has and had no power – he merely had a job, well-paid job, to simulate public and some corporate relations which would be made by a person of power. Oh, and to look good, too, of course.
Lots of bad things which nobody was willing to get esponsible for, – including massive environmental damages such as ones made by extracting oil from tar sands and such – were “put” to be, formally, his responsibility – his signature, his “command”. Noam Chomsky puts it very well about how much real power “democratically elected” officials have in US these days: in compare to largest corporations and some special agencies – very little, and it’s mainly the power to try and fix what “big boys” broke in the process of making huge profits. These days, it’s the best presidents can actually do: to clean up some mess. By the way, last spam e-mail from US White House – is exactly about that: how and when Obama cleaned up some mess
Besides, G.W.Bush is known to indeed have a strong faith – note, i am not saying it’s any complete, nor any sound, nor any proper, – i am just saying he has it strong. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be seeing, ~5 years after he left US president office, pieces like this one: http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/watch-george-w-bush-uses-bible-to-say-people-shouldnt-judge-same-sex-marriage/politics/2013/07/07/70663#.UkFRNz8rxpg
There is a well known link between power of the person’s intellect (which can be, – very partially, though, – guessed by intellect quotient, a.k.a. IQ), – and likelyhood that the person will end up being religious (or have some other form of strong, life-shaping faith or irrational belief) – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#Studies_comparing_religious_belief_and_I.Q. So in case of Stalin, who was darn very smart, – indeed, his “faith” – which in public was a belief in communism, he talked alot about it to wide audiences, etc, – was very “Machiavellish”. G.W.Bush, however, is not exactly as smart as Stalin was – i’m trying to be polite here, you see.
That all said, sure, may be you’re right and i’m wrong. May be G.W.Bush is a genius, and just played a role of “uh… what?” type of guy. May be his religiosity is all “theatre” too. May be he outsmarted capitalists and corporations, and indeed had huge real power, or even ultiamte power. This all – can be, in principle. But then, i am sure that the type i meant – strong faith, significant figure, yet oh so many wrong and bad (for life on Earth) decisions, – exists, and its representatives, – are many. Even if G.W.Bush is not one of them, it merely makes my example bad, but not the whole thought.
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From Paula at Mythodrome, which relates, if somewhat obliquely, to the topic :
Referring again to Rupert Sheldrake’s talk, he describes this religiosity as: “The belief that science has already understood the nature of reality in principle, leaving only the details to be filled in.” Absolutely nothing could be farther from the truth. The nature of reality is entirely dependent upon the person (entity?) who’s reality one is talking about. Some objects and phenomena hold constant across a majority of peoples’ perceived realities, but never across everyone’s. I have learned, via much distress, that reality is rather quite pliable. And I think anyone who has any hope of surviving into the anthropocene has no choice but to reject certainty in favor of probabilities, that is to say, pliability.
Sheldrake lays out the 10 religious dogmas of science thus:
The belief that nature is mechanical, or machine-like
The total amount of matter and energy is always the same, except at the moment of the big bang when it all appeared from nowhere
The laws of nature are fixed
Matter is unconscious
Nature is purposeless
Biological inheritance is material
Memories are stored as material traces inside the brain
The mind is inside the head. Mental activity is brain activity.
Psychic phenomena are illusory
Mechanistic medicine is the only kind that works
http://mythodrome.net/is-science-worth-keeping
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From NC re Dawkins
The guy is so blissfully ignorant that he doesn’t even know the difference between atheism and humanism, and can’t see that he’s fallen into the same antimony that the early Christian humanists did:
Read more at
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/09/links-92313.html#8As2ofIVQKZrpFqW.99
QUESTION: Why do you think that in an age of science so many people, even in the West, and particularly in America, continue to believe in religion?
MR. DAWKINS: I don’t understand why so many people who are sophisticated in science go on believing in God. I wish I did. You’d have to ask them. I know that in some cases what they mean by God is very different from what the ordinary people that they talk to think they mean by God. There are physicists who are deeply awed, as I am, by the majesty of the universe, by the mystery of origins — the origins of the laws of physics, the fundamental constants of physics, and who are moved by this to say there is something so mysterious that it is almost like God, and maybe use the metaphor of God. God is in the equations. God is in the fundamental constants. And that’s fine. I mean, that’s just redefinition of that which we find mysterious at the basis of the universe.
But other people misunderstand that, because to them God is that which forgives sins, that which transubstantiates wine, that which makes me live after I died — and that is a totally different matter. And yet the misunderstanding is ripe for the picking. People will listen to sophisticated physicists, using God as this kind of metaphor for the deep constants, the deep problems, the deep principles of physics, and say that in that sense I believe in God. The reaction is, “Oh, this great physicist believes in God — that means I’m free to believe in the trinity and in the crucifixion and in the reincarnation of Christ — and all that stuff, which of course has nothing whatever to do with the fundamental constants of physics, which is what these physicists are talking about.
http://www.pbs.org/faithandreason/transcript/dawk-frame.html
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I have read most of what Dawkins has written, and watched his tv programmes.
At first, I was greatly impressed and thought that he was a really good biologist and zoologist, and making a great contribution to science and insight into understanding human nature.
Now I think he’s, well, a nut case. His understanding of religion is pathetic. He attacks religious people constantly, but he has never researched the subject.
He is supposed to be an expert on primate behaviour and human behaviour, and yet he doesn’t understand why fellow scientists and ‘ordinary’ people believe in God ?
Perhaps if he tried ? Perhaps if he talked to them, instead of ridiculing them ?
Anyway, he got his ideas from these people, who, whatever else, were both somewhat crazy. There’s more details of them elsewhere if you want to know the bizarre intricacies, e.g. Adam Curtis’ documentary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._D._Hamilton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_R._Price
The way I see it, all three see the world of numbers as more real than the real world.
Which goes back to Plato, et al.
So, they work out numerical models as to how humans should behave, to explain their theories of genetic determinism.
But there seems to be a problem, because in the real world, real people, don’t actually behave anything like numerical models.
But this is something that it is impossible for Dawkins to understand or to accept, because it would collapse his whole worldview, which he fights vehemently to defend.
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You see, the intellectual tradition that Dawkins is following, as I see it anyway, is coming from Plato.
It goes something like this. God created the world, the Creation, and the things in it. So, before they actually come into existence, they have a prior perfect conceptual existence, as an idea, in the mind of God.
So that’s what numbers are, that’s what mathematics is. That whole abstract domain, is perfect, because it is the ideas as they spring forth, pure and uncorrupted, from the mind of God.
The actual real world is some rather messy and imperfect re-presentation of the Platonic Forms.
So, Dawkins way of proceeding is to begin with the Platonic ideas and play around with them and try to match them up with what seems to be going on, with the ants or the humans or whatever.
But of course, there’s a whole other way of doing science. You could study the actual phenomena, observe the ants, whatever, and then try and work out what’s going on in the other direction.
Because this abstract Platonic Forms notion is somewhat questionable, philosophically. I’m not certain where I stand. It does not seem at all clear whether mathematics is invented or discovered.
Pi seems quite bizarre. Is the human mind uncovering stuff like that, or constructing it, or what exactly is happening ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi
Pierre Grimes gives a nice lecture re ideas coming from the mind of God, as the notion was salvaged, when the Greek culture finally collapsed, and someone tried to smuggle the fundamental concepts into Christianity.
The Druze incorporate elements from Plato and Pythagoras into their religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze#God_in_the_Druze_faith
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Why we get NTE
Peter Ward, Under a Green Sky, update.
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Excellent video. Well yes we know industrial civilization has terminal cancer, so enjoy what little time the human race has because it’s all downhill from here… No polar caps = no wind/ocean circulation, oceans become anoxic and produce Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) which kills most everything.
Sea level rise destroys a large percentage of food production as well. Melting of Greenland and the Antarctic are what really matters for the sea level rise that is coming.
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Correction needed there Mike. Anoxic conditions generate hydrogen sulphide.
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Thanks for the catch. A nice thing about being admin is I can correct my comments. 🙂
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Yesterday I came across an article from the Independent which I had printed and filed.
Global warming ‘past the point of no return’.
The item described the rapid melting of Arctic ice and the ‘vicious cycle of melting and heating’ that had been triggered.
It was dated 16th September 2005.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/coral-alert-destruction-of-reefs-accelerating-with-half-destroyed-over-past-30-years-8835480.html
It’s a shame there is a happy-ever-after narrative towards the end. But, as we know, the media cannot announce that industrial civilisation is in the process of totally wrecking the planet. Bad for business.
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I was at a science fair over the weekend in our little city and the forest service had a diorama built to illustrate the effects of catastrophic flooding after a devastating fire in a mountain community. It looked just like Boulder Colorado. The real reason for the public education display was to show why the forest service will be thinning the forest behind our neighborhood in order to prevent a repeat of the Boulder disaster.
I told the speaker that climate change was a primary root cause for the fires and drought as well as the torrential flooding, and she said that “we don’t know what effects climate change has had on the ecosystem.” I didn’t say another word and politely walked on to look at another exhibit of all the endangered native fresh water fish in Arizona.
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Yes, here’s another for the technically minded. When you see the CO2 acidification spike, how fast it is happening, unprecedented, I don’t see any way out of an extinction event, we’re killing all ocean life except the jellyfish and dinoflagellates and other extremophiles and that’ll be the end of us too.
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full interview:
http://www.ecoshock.info/2009/10/nature-as-killer-medea-hypothesis.html
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“Stanford Scientists: Climate Change Occurring 10 times Faster Than Any Time in Past 65 Million Years
Excerpt:
With scant media attention, climate scientists from Stanford University have concluded that climate change is occurring 10 times faster than at any time in the past 65 million years, and the current pace of change will lead to a 5-6 degree (Celsius) spike by the end of this century.
The findings come from a review of climate research by Noah Diffenbaugh, an associate professor of environmental Earth system science, and Chris Field, a professor of biology and of environmental Earth system science and the director of the Department of Global Ecology at the Carnegie Institution. Both scientists are senior fellows at theStanford Woods Institute for the Environment. Their work is part of a special report on climate change in the current issue of Science.”
http://www.desmogblog.com/2013/09/24/stanford-scientists-climate-change-occurring-10-times-faster-any-time-past-65-million-years
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I thought climate change was happening up to 100 times faster than in the past:
“Climate change is occurring 10 to 100 times faster than in the past and ecosystems will find it hard to adjust”
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=todays-climate-change-proves-much-faster-than-changes-in-past-65-million-years
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It has been a bizarre circus for well over a decade, something akin to a melding of Orwell’s ‘ignorance is strength’ and Monty Python’s ‘that parrot isn’t dead, it’s sleeping’.
Here is the latest piece of nonsense reported by the Independent:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/so-bad-it-will-be-good-global-warming-report-will-scare-countries-to-action-says-un-review-head-8837189.html
Meanwhile the vast majority of governments are still utterly committed to propping up the banker’s Ponzi scheme and utterly committed to promoting economic growth via covering farmland with concrete and asphalt. The vast majority of governments are committed to increased tourism and increased dependence on fossil fuels. Canada has abandoned any pretence of environmentalism in a frantic race to extract money from the ground via digging up tar sands and refining the crud they contain into oil they can sell (combining appallingly low EROEI with outrageous emissions)…
Let’s just suppose for the moment that a multitude of feedbacks have not been triggered and that it is possible to bring emissions under control. The only strategies that will work are:
Halting population growth and then bringing about rapid population decline.
Terminating the global financial system.
Terminating consumerism. Only food and basic clothing produced locally.
Terminating the use of fossil fuels.
Allowing corporations to collapse (or actively dismantling them).
In other words, terminating industrial civilisation is the only thing that can save us.
Well, we already know none of the above is ever going to happen by consensus, so humanity will continue to march towards self-extinction, taking down most of the biosphere with it.
Having spent the past 15 years highlighting the crucial issues of the times and having been largely ignored (just like all the others who have been saying the same), I have given up futile attempts to halt the behemoth.
All we can do now is document the insanity and the collapse.
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But this is from the WSJ, the paper smart people read, right? This guy says nobody really knows what is causing global warming, and that regulations will make it all worse. Surprise!
“TODD MYERS: The consensus among scientists is that humans “contribute to,” not cause, global warming. Temperatures began rising, and glaciers receding, in about 1860, long before CO2 emissions from human activity had any impact. Global temperatures change due to a mix of natural and human-caused forces. There is still debate about the magnitude of impacts from the human-caused portion of climate change.
Therefore, the best environmental policy addresses the risk of temperature-rise while remaining flexible and offering no regrets. Our current, regulatory-heavy policy violates those standards.
Regulatory approaches and political subsidies are extremely inflexible. Witness the struggle to stop subsidies for corn-based ethanol, which actually increased carbon emissions. We have wasted huge amounts of money on failed policies. The billions that went to prop up failed solar companies and costly new EPA regulations have done little to reduce emissions, but they have damaged the economy and taken money from other priorities.
The smart, flexible approach is a carbon price combined with tax cuts and elimination of costly and ineffective regulation.”
http://blogs.wsj.com/experts/2013/09/24/regulation-wont-reduce-global-warming/
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Sometimes I feel like a child,impatient & unable to handle the excitement before a big event- summer vacation,Christmas,birthday parties, etc.
Will NTE ever get here? While waiting,a little song might be nice.
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I thought this is rather wonderful as illustrations of how we make mental models of whatever it is that we think is ‘out there’ and try to make sense of what we are a part of.
http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2012/12/21/100-diagrams-that-changed-the-world/
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Denial of Nature’s Limits is the Problem
“Publisher’s note: This article from World Shift Vision is what the New York Times should run, instead of the nonsense it ran that is addressed so well here.
This month, The New York Times published a fantastical piece on human exceptionalism entitled “Overpopulation Is Not The Problem,” in which author Erle C. Ellis claimed that human societies have no limits to their growth. That’s right — limits are merely an illusion. Expansion über alles! That’s our species’ birthright, and rightful destiny.”
http://www.culturechange.org/cms/content/view/890/1/
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We always come back to corporations and money-lenders promoting what is good for corporations and money-lenders in the short term, using their propaganda outlets to brainwash the masses.
Control of the masses via widespread distribution of misinformation commenced shortly after the invention of the printing press, and went into ‘hyper-drive’ in the last decades of the twentieth century.
.
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Climate Expert Slams Australian PM, Other Leaders for ‘Willful Blindness’ Over Climate Change
David Suzuki says Australia PM and other climate-denying politicians should be charged with ‘criminal negligence’
– Jacob Chamberlain, staff writer
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/09/24-5
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Same thing. Corporations and money-lenders decide who will lead nations off the cliff, via corporate-owned ‘news’ media.
Ordinary people bear quite a lot of responsibility, since they refuse to become informed, and vote for their own enslavement.
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Dr. Michael Mann Speaking About Near-Term Extinction starts 31 min into
the show here
Wacky jet stream to blame for wild North American weather
http://grist.org/climate-energy/wacky-jet-stream-to-blame-for-wild-north-american-weather/
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Survival Acres beat you and everybody else (even McPherson by years and years. As a former member of a forum he had, the collapse of civilization was a main topic. Wish he still had it! All you can get now is a blog, think the guy gave up trying to wake people up and get something done. Probably the preeminent collapse blog online.
Resignation has it’s rewards however (acceptance). I’m still trying to understand it all, but there does not seem to be any hope (hopium). Reality dictates that we simple accept what lies ahead.
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Hello Stella,
Hang on, this isn’t about oneupmanship. I’ve been reading Survival Acres for years and years. He’s commented here. Lot of respect for the man.
There’s been a long, long learning curve, both for me personally, and for the wider community of radicals, activists, etc. I can plot this out, going right back to Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring which I read when it first came out, in my youth.
There’s a big difference between fighting for nature, trying to save the biosphere, and WANTING the collapse of civilisation, and then getting the insight that even if civilisation does collapse, that there will still be a Mass Extinction Event.
Yes, there’s this very complicated thing that occurs, that people are referring to as resignation and acceptance, and so forth, which is really much bigger that those words can contain, because it has never happened to human beings before, so we have never had to invent terminology for a circumstance like this.
People are contemplating the premature death of billions. How do you get your head around something like that, and picture it in any sort of reasonable terms, amidst all the idiotic chattering noise from the MSM that’s meant to distract us from any kind of serious thought ?
People are having to contemplate their children and grandchildren’s future against that sort of backdrop.
Are the people responsible for this – and we know who they are, we have their names, the details of their actions, the records of their decisions – going to be held to account and face retribution ?
The internet is now a warzone. It’s become a psyops battlefield where factions spew out propaganda intended to manipulate mass opinion in all kinds of extremely devious ways. Nothing can be taken at face value anymore.
There are far too many different forces and interests, all fighting their causes, to even begin to enumerate, but the biggest division is very easy to see, the ultra-rich who are few but control the media, and the poor, who are very many, but have little influence or say in what happens.
And while they fight, the world melts, and every day we advance toward the impossible future.
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We sure have a lot of data and information now that shows so well the path we are on and our obvious end. Predictions are tough, but the future is getting clearer all the time.
But, really, we had enough information to know about the coming disasters over 40 years ago with the publication of The Limits To Growth by the Club Of Rome. I was 22 at the time and took it very seriously. I couldn’t understand why the average person, and the media, ignored it. Of course, school, career, marriage, kids, got me off track somewhat, and I didn’t dwell on it it for many years, especially since I never seemed to find anyone else interested or troubled by what the book was telling us. But it was always there in my mind….the knowing that the future is a very dark place.
Now, in a very slow process, many are awakening to the horror of our situation. In ten years I’d imagine that what we say here on this website, which would seem very radical to most people I know, will be well understood by the masses. They will not take it well. I can’t imagine what will happen when this incredibly scary and depressing information becomes widely accepted by millions and billions of people. Mass mental instability, insanity, lashing out violently…..millions literally going crazy with fear and grief?
It will be interesting times, to say the least.
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pfgetty sez: I can’t imagine what will happen when this incredibly scary and depressing information becomes widely accepted by millions and billions of people. Mass mental instability, insanity, lashing out violently…..millions literally going crazy with fear and grief?
We don’t have to wait; it’s already happening. The canaries in the coal mine tend to be sensitive, conscientious people and the disenfranchised with nothing (left) to lose. Newsworthy responses are typically nihilism in its most basic form: going out in a spree of violence. But the quieter response is withdrawal into a bunker mentality, which is visible everywhere with fear-mongering and scape-goating. We’re not quite yet up to the grief/victim stage.
I recently learned of Martha Gellhorn, who was a journalist who covered many 20th-century wars from the perspective of civilians. She witnessed and wrote about some unspeakable things that happen to people when the world falls apart around them. Undoubtedly, there is plenty of mayhem for us to anticipate when grocery store shelves finally empty and are never again restocked, the water, heat, and electricity are shut off, and day-to-day survival becomes difficult or impossible, but a certain sort of madness is already upon us as we rush headlong into our collective fate. I see dazed, disconnected, disengaged people quite a lot with nothing to do and nothing to live for, and it surprises me, frankly, that they don’t run off the rails more often.
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My son saw the “dazed, disconnected, disengaged people” throughout Africa, and we both saw the same in Haiti. It is a hopelessness that is all pervasive, hitting the poor countries first, and, yes, we can see it here. Only to get worse.
Watch, though….the causes of it will be the lack of Jesus in our lives, or allowing gays to marry, or too many Mexicans here, and on and on. The denialism won’t stop.
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This is rather interesting. Smart people thinking about how we can get ourselves out of our state of Shocked Acquiescence.
To Shock out of Acquiescence (Designed Conflict Territories)
What we need is a territory and a language. Perhaps those can even be the same thing. Design already has a language and the reason that critical design works is it uses the same language of the things it’s critiquing. The design language is a finely honed and perfected communication tool.
http://blog.tobiasrevell.com/2013/09/designed-conflict-territories.html
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Seeking to live in harmony with nature and cosmic reason, during Hellenistic times the Stoic philosophers practiced a spiritual exercise, called “the View from Above,” in which they imagined themselves high up in space, looking down on the Earth below. In the words of Marcus Aurelius,
Watch and see the courses of the stars as if you were running alongside them, and continually dwell in your mind upon the changes of the elements into one another; for these imaginations wash away the foulness of life on the earth. When you are reasoning about mankind, look upon earthly things below as if from some vantage point above them.
In the words of philosopher Pierre Hadot, the goal of this exercise was “to relocate human existence within the infinity of time and space, and the perspective of the great laws of nature” and to see “the mutual implication in each thing in everything else.” In this way, viewing things from a cosmic perspective, the philosopher would see the world as it really is; and seeing life in a cosmic context, he would not be psychologically troubled by the small disturbances that cause such a large amount of suffering for much of humanity.
As Pierre Hadot writes,
Philosophy in antiquity was an exercise practiced at each instant. It invites us to concentrate on each instant of life, to become aware of the infinite value of each present moment, once we have replaced it within the perspective of the cosmos. The exercise of wisdom entails a cosmic dimension. Whereas the average person has lost touch with the world, and does not see the world qua world, but rather treats the world as a means of satisfying his desires, the sage never ceases to have the whole constantly present to mind. He thinks and acts within a cosmic perspective. He has the feeling of a whole which goes beyond the limits of his individuality.
http://www.cosmopolisproject.org/2013/09/24/the-view-from-above-seeing-life-from-a-cosmic-perspective/
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“It is always dangerous to draw too precise parallels between one historical period and another; and among the most misleading of such parallels are those which have been drawn between our own age in Europe and North America and the epoch in which the Roman empire declined into the Dark Ages.
None the less certain parallels there are.
A crucial turning point in that earlier history occurred when men and women of good will turned aside from the task of shoring up the roman imperium and ceased to identify the continuation of civility and moral community with the maintenance of that imperium.
What they set themselves to achieve instead – often not recognising fully what they were doing – was the construction of new forms of community within which the moral life could be sustained so that both morality and civility might survive the coming ages of barbarism and darkness.
If my account of our moral condition is correct, we ought also to conclude that for some time now we too have reached that turning point.
What matters at this stage is the construction of local forms of community within which civility and the intellectual and moral life can be sustained through the new dark ages which are already upon us. And if the tradition of the virtues was able to use the horrors of the last dark ages, we are not entirely without grounds for hope.
This time however the barbarians are not waiting beyond the frontiers; they have already been governing us for quite some time. And it is our lack of consciousness of this that constitutes part of our predicament. We are waiting not for a Godot, but for another – doubtless very different – St Benedict.”
~Alasdair MacIntyre “After Virtue” ©1981
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Hi andycatsimanes223,
Good quote. Thanks.
It assumes a bottleneck from which something emerges, which was easy to do in 1981.
Last time, the Dark Ages, people kept the candle alight in remote places like Skellig Michael. I believe I read somewhere that those people were in contact via a network right across Europe all the way to Syria and Coptic Christians in Egypt and Ethiopia
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